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Old 04-19-2007, 12:22 PM   #16
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

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Originally Posted by Y2Gezee
I definately agree that the 3pt shot has dropped fg% and will continue to.

Aswell as the different styles of play, which usually ends up happening due to teams playing copycat to teams that have had success. Like the Lakers had success running in the 80s so people ran, then things sorta changed to the ugly game later in the 80s with the Celtics and Lakers being able to get down and dirty aswell as run, but the Pistons took it to another level so for the longest that is how basketball was played, which lowered fg% somewhat. The Halfcourt/ out execution game, instead of the fullcourt free flowing game. Yeah there are some teams that really run now, but not many.

this is a great point. all through the 80s i remember teams trying to make big guards into point guards to mimic magic. theus, robertson (not that big but a natural 2), richardson, even jordan. then when riley's phyical game gave them some good series with the bulls, the slow down game became popular. even without the rules changes a team like the suns might have come along and if they had enough success they would have sprouted copy cats eventually.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:41 PM   #17
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

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Originally Posted by dejordan
i agree. it might lead to a short term problem with scoring and flow, but teams would adjust. i'd be even happier if they went back to no zone at all personally, but whatever the rules, coaches will adjust and players will play.

many teams have made that adjustment to the various nba zones. the suns' style has taught teams to spread the court and run as much as possible and to get up shots before the defense gets set

they and the warriors have brought the fun back into the nba for me
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

It has been written that the best way to compare shooting ability accross eras is by free throw percentage. Free throws are constant throughout the years, always 15 feet and uncontested, thus making them a good measure. I don't know if there's been a statisticaly significant dropoff over the years, but someone who's motivated and competent in statistics could figure it out.

As for the 80s teams, I do feel like they were a lot deeper than today's teams. Guys like Fisher didn't start, and guys like Troy Hudson didn't play.

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go the whole nine- yards now and get rid of the defensive 3 seconds rule!!

That doesn't make much sense to me. If an offensive player isn't allowed in the paint for three seconds, a defensive player shouldn't be either.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:55 PM   #19
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

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Originally Posted by RainierBeachPoet
many teams have made that adjustment to the various nba zones. the suns' style has taught teams to spread the court and run as much as possible and to get up shots before the defense gets set

they and the warriors have brought the fun back into the nba for me

Well there are always some teams that run, even in the 90s. But nowadays there still are few.

The best team that ran recently were those Kings teams that competed. They were old school basketball like in some ways as they liked to run, however they had a sure fire halfcourt SYSTEM in case they couldn't run, and played defense.

And had the Nets had better outside shooters, they'd have been a great running team aswell. Still sorta were


Right now the Suns/Nuggets/Raps/Warriors/Grizz are pretty the only teams that run.
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Old 04-19-2007, 01:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

they mean all the young guns do is dunk..... which i hate watchin 15 footers bein shot all the time when you have the chance to break someone off then slam on em
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Old 04-19-2007, 02:36 PM   #21
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2Gezee
Well there are always some teams that run, even in the 90s. But nowadays there still are few.

The best team that ran recently were those Kings teams that competed. They were old school basketball like in some ways as they liked to run, however they had a sure fire halfcourt SYSTEM in case they couldn't run, and played defense.

And had the Nets had better outside shooters, they'd have been a great running team aswell. Still sorta were


Right now the Suns/Nuggets/Raps/Warriors/Grizz are pretty the only teams that run.

The best running team with the most complete offense were those Sac teams with Webber and Divac running the highpost passing game for cutters and outside jumpers.It was a thing of beauty and no recent team has a similar style IMO.

Warriors (now)
PHX (now)
Nets (a few years back)
Bucks (Ray Allen and Cassell teams)
Dallas (Nellie teams)
Denver (now)

are/were true run and gun teams
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Old 04-19-2007, 03:19 PM   #22
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

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damn


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Old 04-19-2007, 03:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

one thiing that puzzles me is the zone and how it's viewed... the zone was illegal in the nba until the early 2000's... it was illegal because it stifled offensive play and slowed the game down and the NBA wanted higher scoring games...

then along comes shaq he's to big too strong to powerful for one man to gaurd so the zone is implemented again (when first reintroduced it was called the shaq rule because it would effect him most) now people say the zone is not as difficult to score against, that the old man on man game was harder...

yet we have guys like wade, kobe, iverson and lebron that light up double teams and sometimes even triple teams with ease...can you imagine how wade would go off if illegal defense was called when ever a man slacked off and strayed away from his man. or kobe if he only had to take one guy off the perimeter, and lebron would be having a field day if the cavs could spread their offense and leave the paint unprotected... i personally feel that todays player is every bit as well equiped to deal with the defense of eras past...
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Old 04-19-2007, 03:53 PM   #24
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

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Originally Posted by gts
one thiing that puzzles me is the zone and how it's viewed... the zone was illegal in the nba until the early 2000's... it was illegal because it stifled offensive play and slowed the game down and the NBA wanted higher scoring games...

then along comes shaq he's to big too strong to powerful for one man to gaurd so the zone is implemented again (when first reintroduced it was called the shaq rule because it would effect him most) now people say the zone is not as difficult to score against, that the old man on man game was harder...

yet we have guys like wade, kobe, iverson and lebron that light up double teams and sometimes even triple teams with ease...can you imagine how wade would go off if illegal defense was called when ever a man slacked off and strayed away from his man. or kobe if he only had to take one guy off the perimeter, and lebron would be having a field day if the cavs could spread their offense and leave the paint unprotected... i personally feel that todays player is every bit as well equiped to deal with the defense of eras past...

i find that the way the zone is usually implemented in the nba, it has little effect on guards. this might be because of the no contact rule that came with it and robs defenders of the ability to physically contain drivers, or it might be because defenses don't commit as quickly to double teams on the perimeter when they can hedge in a zone d, but players don't seem to have any more or less space than they did in the 80s and 90s to me. where the zone is harsh is in the post, where bigs can be doubled without the ball and completely frozen out of offensive sets. of course that opens up the game for others, but you could see it in shaq's game in the playoff last year, when a lot of times he was more of a decoy than a dominator.
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Old 04-19-2007, 04:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

I thought that before the handchecking reinforcement, the zone effected the guards the most.

It still makes it a bit harder to get into the paint than the past, but the no handchecking IMO sorta evens it out. Yet it still makes guys shoot more jumpers.
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Old 04-19-2007, 04:54 PM   #26
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

The zone defense is perverted by the defensive 3 seconds rule. It's basically taking the biggest advantage of a zone defense away. It's incredibly easy for a player to penetrate against such a zone.
The NBA is using a bastardized version of the real zone defense, rendering it close to useless.
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:33 PM   #27
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Default any type of d

Quote:
Originally Posted by FPower


That doesn't make much sense to me. If an offensive player isn't allowed in the paint for three seconds, a defensive player shouldn't be either.

my rationale is not to make it equal for the defense and offense in the key, but

if these are the best players in the world, they ought to be able to play any defense that they want and the offense would have to deal with it.

i believe that the offenses would adjust accordingly and that the game overall would be fine
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:22 PM   #28
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

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That doesn't make much sense to me. If an offensive player isn't allowed in the paint for three seconds, a defensive player shouldn't be either.
ahh I'm pretty sure that every league that isn't the NBA allows defensive players to camp.
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:35 PM   #29
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

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Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

but you to write about it? makes lotsa sense...
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Unnecessarily long rant on a topic you probbaly dont care about.

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Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
A lot of the reason I don't put Kobe in the same league as Jordan as a scorer (aside from the fact that he's never matched Jordan's playoff numbers or efficiencey or shown he could score like Jordan did against brutal defensive teams like the Bad Boys Pistons and Knicks teams) is that the rules have been changed to heavily favor offensive players and Bryant has the greenlight to shoot as often as he wants.

Do I think Kobe is an excellent scorer? Of course. I just think all this talk about him being the best scorer ever, and a better scorer than Mike and all of that garbage is just flat out nonsense.

Leave it to Knoe to bring Kobe into the conversation.
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