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Old 09-18-2015, 06:47 PM   #16
Carbine
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

It's not laughable at all. It's a legit debate. For now.
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

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Originally Posted by Carbine
It's not laughable at all. It's a legit debate. For now.

No it's not carby.
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

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Originally Posted by Dro
This is a team game and to me, Peyton is a better football player than Tom Brady. Tom has played in the same system his entire career. Peyton has installed his own system basically and made it successful with the Colts and then took his system to Denver and he's had great success there too.
This is no excuse for anything and no disadvantage of any kind. For almost his whole career Manning has gotten an offense completely tailored to his strengths. This might be the first season that hasn't been the case. It's just a difference, nothing more nothing less. If Manning didn't want all that responsibility he would have said so.

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When I think of who is the better pure passer? To me, its Peyton. When I think of who plays within a system and who IS the system? To me, its Peyton.

I don't choose who's better based on who's better in the clutch. If that were the case, Kobe would barely be top 10 in the NBA because he's not as clutch as his reputation suggests. I won't say Brady is Robert Horry, I give him more credit than that.
This is a bad analogy because Horry is not a superstar. We wouldn't even bother to compare his stats to Bryant's. Manning has bigger regular season stats than Brady but Brady still has superstar stats, setting a record for TDs in a season (that Manning did break) and winning two MVPs (to Manning's 5). I don't recall Horry ever winning an MVP. Manning would actually win this argument if it was just about regular season stats and awards but unfortunately for his case postseason performance is extremely important.
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Brady would have a losing record in the playoffs too if he wasn't playing for Bill Belicheck and the Patriots. They are the best run organization in sports.
It probably wouldn't be as good but you certainly have no way of knowing it would be bad. He is tied for or owns 9 Superbowl records. He is inarguably one of the greatest clutch QBs of all time. Every QB that played for an organization outside of New England doesn't have a losing record in the playoffs so I certainly don't see how you can be so sure that Brady's record would be bad.
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

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Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
This is no excuse for anything and no disadvantage of any kind. For almost his whole career Manning has gotten an offense completely tailored to his strengths. This might be the first season that hasn't been the case. It's just a difference, nothing more nothing less. If Manning didn't want all that responsibility he would have said so.

This is a bad analogy because Horry is not a superstar. We wouldn't even bother to compare his stats to Bryant's. Manning has bigger regular season stats than Brady but Brady still has superstar stats, setting a record for TDs in a season (that Manning did break) and winning two MVPs (to Manning's 5). I don't recall Horry ever winning an MVP. Manning would actually win this argument if it was just about regular season stats and awards but unfortunately for his case postseason performance is extremely important.
It probably wouldn't be as good but you certainly have no way of knowing it would be bad. He is tied for or owns 9 Superbowl records. He is inarguably one of the greatest clutch QBs of all time. Every QB that played for an organization outside of New England doesn't have a losing record in the playoffs so I certainly don't see how you can be so sure that Brady's record would be bad.
Saying his record would be bad might be an exaggeration but you can't ignore the situation he's been in his entire career. His laser accurate yes, but I just haven't seen him take complete control of the game throughout his career like Manning has. I watch Peyton call a million audibles just to get into the perfect play and beat great defenses. They surround Brady with a bunch of Wes Welker types who run crisp routes and he dinks and dunks his way down the field while they get YAC although he does hit guys deep from time to time. I'm not saying Brady's not like top 3 or something but I don't think he's better than Peyton, I never have.

But I stopped debating this issue a LONG time ago cause I realized nobody's opinion would ever change. I think Tom Brady is one of the best QB's of all time but I think Peyton is arguably the best QB of all time even though he only as 1 ring.
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

Lmao, the 03 patriots had the same system as the 11 pats?
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:39 PM   #21
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dro
Saying his record would be bad might be an exaggeration but you can't ignore the situation he's been in his entire career. His laser accurate yes, but I just haven't seen him take complete control of the game throughout his career like Manning has. I watch Peyton call a million audibles just to get into the perfect play and beat great defenses. They surround Brady with a bunch of Wes Welker types who run crisp routes and he dinks and dunks his way down the field while they get YAC although he does hit guys deep from time to time. I'm not saying Brady's not like top 3 or something but I don't think he's better than Peyton, I never have.

But I stopped debating this issue a LONG time ago cause I realized nobody's opinion would ever change. I think Tom Brady is one of the best QB's of all time but I think Peyton is arguably the best QB of all time even though he only as 1 ring.
They both average around the same Y/A And manning has had better receivers for most of his career

Try again

Last edited by CelticBaller : 09-18-2015 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:44 PM   #22
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

Where would you ranking these guys?

Brady
Manning
Montana
Elway
Marino
Untias
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dro
Saying his record would be bad might be an exaggeration but you can't ignore the situation he's been in his entire career. His laser accurate yes, but I just haven't seen him take complete control of the game throughout his career like Manning has. I watch Peyton call a million audibles just to get into the perfect play and beat great defenses. They surround Brady with a bunch of Wes Welker types who run crisp routes and he dinks and dunks his way down the field while they get YAC although he does hit guys deep from time to time. I'm not saying Brady's not like top 3 or something but I don't think he's better than Peyton, I never have.
I do respect your opinion (even though it's wrong). But I have to point out two things.

1: The receiving corps Brady has had over the course of his career most definitely are not an advantage. He got a few years with Moss and Gronk is kind of like having a great receiver. But having sub-6 ft wideouts for much of their career is not something that any QB would desire. Brady has only played one season with a great receiver in his prime and in that season he destroyed the record books. Wes Welker did his job just like Edelman does his job and I'm not saying that small possession receivers have no value but when that is your entire core you have to use a dink and dunk offense. You have to be extremely accurate as they don't have the range of a guy like Moss and so won't give you any room for error. How is this some kind of advantage? The Colts gave Manning several years of Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. If you compare those two to the guys Brady has played with for much of his career it isn't even close.


2: Manning yelling "Omaha" and getting to influence the offensive play-calling to the extent he has is not an advantage or a disadvantage. Every team has an offensive coordinator. If Manning wants to take part of their job, fine, it's basically worked for him, but it doesn't make him better than the next QB. It might make him readier to take a coaching job after he retires but the important thing is that a QB gets a completion on the slant play, not whether he or his OC called the slant play.
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Old 09-18-2015, 09:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

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Originally Posted by Bless Mathews
No it's not carby.

It really is. Unless you put so much emphasis on superbowls that it just trumps all these advantages career wise.

Peyton's resume is ridiculous.

10 time All-Pro (7 1st team selections)--Brady has 3 (2 first team selections)
5X MVP ------Brady has 2
Most career TD passes ever
Most Passing yards and TD single season record
Most career Passing Yards record (will have that in a months time)
He is the all-time leader in 4th Q comebacks and Game Winning Drives

Peyton's resume can't be ****ed with. I've seen both in their primes, you can't take one over the other. Peyton turned mediocrity into a perennial top seed for years and years. Brady was amazing too.

Unless you think the rings not only make up the difference in resumes but put Brady on top.
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:10 PM   #25
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

Otto Graham. In nine years, he led his team to 9 straight championship games and won 7 of them. Most of his records have been surpassed, but largely because quarterback stats have become enormously inflated with rule change after rule change, all designed to boost offense and to protect the QB.

However, he still holds the record for most yards per pass attempt 8.89, and highest winning percentage for a quarterback .814.
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:28 PM   #26
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
It really is. Unless you put so much emphasis on superbowls that it just trumps all these advantages career wise.

Peyton's resume is ridiculous.

10 time All-Pro (7 1st team selections)--Brady has 3 (2 first team selections)
5X MVP ------Brady has 2
Most career TD passes ever
Most Passing yards and TD single season record
Most career Passing Yards record (will have that in a months time)
He is the all-time leader in 4th Q comebacks and Game Winning Drives

Peyton's resume can't be ****ed with. I've seen both in their primes, you can't take one over the other. Peyton turned mediocrity into a perennial top seed for years and years. Brady was amazing too.

Unless you think the rings not only make up the difference in resumes but put Brady on top.

Of course rangs have to be taken into consideration.

I can't stand Brady. I LIKE manning better.

But your just not looking at it objectively lil carby. Your blind. Like how I'll always thing Wilson > Luck

You play the game to WIN THE SUPERBOWL, not get stats and individual honors.

Brady has a legitimate will to win, that fire , that CLUTCH WHEN IT COUNTS.

AND comparable stats with overall GARBAGE GARBAGE receivers.

A player should be judged when competition is at its best , when it means the most. THE PLAYOFFS.

Brady obviously > manning there

Manning stat padded in regular season, just like your boy luck, and got dismissed in the playoffs on the regular.

Football is a team sport , yes, but quarterback is the most important position in ALL of sports.

Therefore , ultimately if he doesn't lead his team to the promised land, they are just stats.

Brady > manning.

Period.
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:58 PM   #27
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

LOL that's so simple minded. I judge players by how they do their job consistently. Regular season matters. I don't disregard them as empty when their football teams don't win a title. It actually makes me mad that people think this way. It's so ridiculous to me.

It's not the most important position in all of sports either, Just in basketball alone, whatever positon Lebron plays if far more impactful. Like it's not even close.

LeBron has far far far more impact on wins and loses than a quarterback does. Or any great basketball player for that matter. Just using Lebron as an example.

LeBron can literally take a non-playoff roster and take them to the finals because of his individual greatness. We know this because he just did it.

He's the foundation of their team on offense. He plays defense. All areas of the game a player can effect. Typically in playoff games he's on the floor 40 plus minutes a game.

A QB doesn't even play 2/3 of the game - defense and special teams. He plays offense where he needs guys to block for him, needs guys to catch for him (Look at how important those Demarius catches were last night. They don't win without him just beasting guys for catches) and in the running game (aside from read option QBS) they don't run the ball or block for the runner.

Some of the worst starting QBs in the history of the NFL over the past 15 years have won titles. Dilfer and Johnson.
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:00 AM   #28
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

BTW I never said "rangs" shouldn't be taken into consideration. I'm fine with that. But to the extent that it makes up for and clearly exceeds Peyton's resume? I don't agree with that at all. Has nothing to do with Peyton being our QB for years and everything to do with logic.
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:59 AM   #29
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
BTW I never said "rangs" shouldn't be taken into consideration. I'm fine with that. But to the extent that it makes up for and clearly exceeds Peyton's resume? I don't agree with that at all. Has nothing to do with Peyton being our QB for years and everything to do with logic.

I guess you'll always be just a stat whore lil carby.

Manning doesn't get it done when it counts most.


How many times did his TEAM get him first or second seed, than he didn't get it done in playoffs???

You act like he didn't have squads.

And you act like Brady don't got honors.

Come on carby.

You being a colt homer.
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Old 09-19-2015, 03:24 AM   #30
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Default Re: is there still doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT footballer?

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Originally Posted by Dro
This is a team game and to me, Peyton is a better football player than Tom Brady. Tom has played in the same system his entire career. Peyton has installed his own system basically and made it successful with the Colts and then took his system to Denver and he's had great success there too.

When I think of who is the better pure passer? To me, its Peyton. When I think of who plays within a system and who IS the system? To me, its Peyton.

I don't choose who's better based on who's better in the clutch. If that were the case, Kobe would barely be top 10 in the NBA because he's not as clutch as his reputation suggests. I won't say Brady is Robert Horry, I give him more credit than that.

Dunno if you guys frequent many football forums but trust me, this is not anywhere near as laughable as you dudes are acting. I've seen PLENTY of people still prefer Peyton and as far as I'm concerned, I've always preferred Peyton.

Brady would have a losing record in the playoffs too if he wasn't playing for Bill Belicheck and the Patriots. They are the best run organization in sports.

It's a team game, but lets not ignore all the weapons Manning had with both the Colts & the Broncos, this guy had more weapons throughout his career than Marino ever had, Brady too. And are we going to ignore all the playoff failures? Yes, Manning at times didn't have the best team around him to win, but there are also a good chunk of times where he had championship caliber teams and he just blew it.

I've always switched back and forth when it came to Brady and Manning. From 2003-2007 I liked Brady, From 2008-2013 on some days I thought Manning was greater, but what has happened in the last couple of years leaves no doubt that Brady is greater. Manning's playoff performances with the Broncos really hasn't helped his case to avoid the "chokes in big games" talks while what Brady did last year in the Super Bowl was was legendary s.hit, the 4th quarter vs Seattle was one of the most badass/clutchest performances I have ever seen from a QB.
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