Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Football Forum

Football Forum Football forum - NFL football forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-06-2015, 12:13 PM   #16
Bless Mathews
454 Dumper
 
Bless Mathews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the underground
Posts: 10,967
Default Re: Todd Gurley

It's a passing league now.

Teams use two three rbs.

Position has definitely been devalued.

There are still plenty of elite rbs. Gurley definitely one of them.
Bless Mathews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 12:13 PM   #17
West-Side
Goat Loading
 
West-Side's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,899
Default Re: Todd Gurley

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
Smith was amazing RB, who ran behind MANY different linemen in his long career. He is actually underrated because so man fools out there like West think his line made him who he was.

Smith almost ran for 1,000 yards at age 35, on a HORRID Cardinals offensive line.



The guy averaged a pathetic 2.8 & 3.5 YPC with Arizona.
He has a pretty mediocre 4.2 career YPC playing behind a GREAT line in Dallas.

The only reason he's the leading rusher is because of durability.
He has 4400 career carries for god sakes.

He has over 1300 more carries and only 3086 more yards than Barry Sanders.

Barry has a 5.0 career YPC, too Smith's mediocre 4.2.


All-Pro Selections for Dallas.

Mark Stepnoski (92'), Erik Williams (93'), Nate Newton (94') & Mark Stepnoski (94'), Larry Allen (95'), Erik Williams (95'), Nate Newton (95'), Erik Williams (96'), Larry Allen (96'), Larry Allen (97'), Larry Allen (98'), Larry Allen (99').

Dallas Cowboys had the MOST all-pro selections from their offensive line than ANY other team in the 90's. I'm talking about all-pro teams here not the pro-bowl, only about 5/6 linesman get selected.

Dallas Cowboys had THREE of them make the team in 95' alone.
A feat that has never been replicated since that year.

Still going to pretend like I don't know what I'm talking about?

Between 93' - 95'; Dallas had Newton, Stepnoski, Allen & Williams blocking for Smith.

He recorded his highest YPC those years of 4.7 & 5.3.
After most of those guys declined and only Allen remained on the team, these were his YPC.

3.7
4.1
4.2
4.2
4.1
3.9
3.8

Ages 27 to 33.

From 91' to 95', Smith had FIVE 1,400 yard seasons.
SEVEN times a linesman from Dallas was selected to the all-pro team.

Smith had ZERO seasons of 1,400 yards after 95'.
His YPC wasn't impressive.

To give you an idea, Barry Sanders during the same time-frame played behind only ONE all-pro linesman [Lomas Brown].

Ended his career only 3,000 yards behind Smith on 1,300 less carries and had a 5.0 YPC.

That's a SPECIAL running back, kind of like Peterson is for Minnesota.
Smith is far from it, and it hurts my head when idiots actually call this guy the greatest back ever or top 5.

Last edited by West-Side : 11-06-2015 at 12:16 PM.
West-Side is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 12:17 PM   #18
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,844
Default Re: Todd Gurley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
I think the point is there are many, many more replacement level RBS available who can come in and often times do just as well as "name" RBS.

Look at Deangelo Williams. Thought to be washed up prior to season...comes in and produces. Chris Johnson off the streets and now is one of the leading rushers in the league.

If you gotta go to a backup QB you are pretty much ****ed.

Special ones are excempt. Those guys matter......but their are still numerous other positions I would take a special talent over.

LT and RT, WR, Any Pass Rusher, MLB, CB and probably Safety.

You wouldn't have said that before the rule changes. A star RB was a hot commodity.

So the position has been devalued, in comparison to other positons.

My opinion anyway.
If the elites are "exempt" then you could still say that about just about any position.

A backup WR could do a decent job replacing a non-elite WR...look at what Diggs, Snead, etc etc. Steve Smith was thought to be washed up like DeAngelo.

That could be said at every defensive position too if we are excluding elites.

Really the only position I feel like it might not be the same is QB...
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 12:22 PM   #19
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,844
Default Re: Todd Gurley

This is the same problem I run into every time in this debate...I'm not allowed to point out huge differences that RBs have made because "oh he doesn't count, he is an elite, he is special"

As though there are a group of 6 or so elites and then after that everyone is the exact same.

But it doesn't work like that...there are elites and then there are 'very good' RBs like Forte, Bernard, Forsett, etc...there are average RBs...poor RBs...it is a scale from elite to shitty just like any other position.
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 12:37 PM   #20
West-Side
Goat Loading
 
West-Side's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,899
Default Re: Todd Gurley

Smith - 4.2 YPC
Payton - 4.4 YPC
Sanders - 5.0 YPC
Martin - 4.0 YPC
Tomlinson - 4.3 YPC
Bettis - 3.9 YPC
Dickerson - 4.4 YPC
Dorsett - 4.3 YPC
Faulk - 4.3 YPC

Smith's offensive line got selected to the all-pro teams twice as many times as the 2nd leading rusher on the top 10 list.

Peterson - 4.9 YPC
Jim Brown - 5.2 YPC
Simpson - 4.7 YPC

It's hard for me to pick a running back better than Sanders, Peterson, Brown, Payton & Faulk. Those guys to me are truly special and would produce no matter who is blocking for them because of their elusiveness, vision and strength.

Guys like Martin, E.Smith, E.George, T.Davis, Bettis etc. are all great backs and have had great careers, but I just don't really feel they stand out from the pack of other good running backs.

There are special talent; good talent; reliable talent and poor talent.
To give you an example;

Peterson - special talent
M.Forte - good talent
James Starks - reliable talent

I'd put Smith with Forte.
So far from what I've seen from Gurley, I'd call him a special talent.

Peterson, Bell, Charles.
That's it to be honest.
West-Side is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 12:50 PM   #21
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,844
Default Re: Todd Gurley

It's hilarious how people think Smith ran behind the same line his whole career.

The only HOFer he ran behind was Larry Allen, and Allen didn't join the team till 95....Smith had already won 2 rings before running behind Allen.
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 12:58 PM   #22
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,844
Default Re: Todd Gurley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oUVMCX0fZo

If you think Smith was n average runner who just had a great line then watch this video...I'm not kidding, watch the fcking vid right now...just 2 minutes of it.

Sometimes people forget that he was actually an amazing talent.




And aside from running, he was amazing at everything else...he was top notch in pass protection, he was amazing at grinding short yardage too...jumping over a mound of players at the goal line was no problem for him. He was also a great receiver, he has 3,000+ receiving yards to tack on to his rushing totals. He was great at everything, no flaws.
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 01:00 PM   #23
West-Side
Goat Loading
 
West-Side's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,899
Default Re: Todd Gurley

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
It's hilarious how people think Smith ran behind the same line his whole career.

The only HOFer he ran behind was Larry Allen, and Allen didn't join the team till 95....Smith had already won 2 rings before running behind Allen.

Are you slow or did you not read my post?
Mark Stepnowski, Erik Williams & Nate Newton all blocked for Smith.
All were MULTIPLE time all-pro selections.

Only 5-7 linesman get selected to all-pro team, every year from 92' to 99' Dallas had at least one linesman selected.

In 95', THREE Cowboy linesman were selected which is unheard off.
To put things in perspective, Dallas had THREE of the SIX best linesman in the ENTIRE league in 1995.

Half of the linesman that were selected were from Dallas.
Still, Smith had a pretty mediocre 4.2 YPC considering the talent he had to run behind.

It's also funny how his YPC dipped from 4.7 to 3.9 once Newton, Williams and Step declined and only Allen was left to block for him.
West-Side is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 01:02 PM   #24
West-Side
Goat Loading
 
West-Side's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,899
Default Re: Todd Gurley

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oUVMCX0fZo

If you think Smith was n average runner who just had a great line then watch this video...I'm not kidding, watch the fcking vid right now...just 2 minutes of it.

Sometimes people forget that he was actually an amazing talent.




And aside from running, he was amazing at everything else...he was top notch in pass protection, he was amazing at grinding short yardage too...jumping over a mound of players at the goal line was no problem for him. He was also a great receiver, he has 3,000+ receiving yards to tack on to his rushing totals. He was great at everything, no flaws.


I can post a 2 minute video of DeAngelo Williams and make him seem like an all-time great.
West-Side is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 01:08 PM   #25
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,844
Default Re: Todd Gurley

Emmitt's highight reel is ENDLESS...it is endless footage of HIM making defenders miss, and NOT footage of him running through massive holes untouched.
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 01:08 PM   #26
Rondooooooooooo
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Celtics-Suns Broncos-Cardinals
Posts: 1,308
Default Re: Todd Gurley

Quote:
Originally Posted by West-Side
I don't evaulate running backs by their numbers, ever. I look at the way they run the ball; their vision, strength and elusiveness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by West-Side
The guy averaged a pathetic 2.8 & 3.5 YPC with Arizona.
He has a pretty mediocre 4.2 career YPC playing behind a GREAT line in Dallas.

The only reason he's the leading rusher is because of durability.
He has 4400 career carries for god sakes.

He has over 1300 more carries and only 3086 more yards than Barry Sanders.

Barry has a 5.0 career YPC, too Smith's mediocre 4.2.


All-Pro Selections for Dallas.

Mark Stepnoski (92'), Erik Williams (93'), Nate Newton (94') & Mark Stepnoski (94'), Larry Allen (95'), Erik Williams (95'), Nate Newton (95'), Erik Williams (96'), Larry Allen (96'), Larry Allen (97'), Larry Allen (98'), Larry Allen (99').

Dallas Cowboys had the MOST all-pro selections from their offensive line than ANY other team in the 90's. I'm talking about all-pro teams here not the pro-bowl, only about 5/6 linesman get selected.

Dallas Cowboys had THREE of them make the team in 95' alone.
A feat that has never been replicated since that year.

Still going to pretend like I don't know what I'm talking about?

Between 93' - 95'; Dallas had Newton, Stepnoski, Allen & Williams blocking for Smith.

He recorded his highest YPC those years of 4.7 & 5.3.
After most of those guys declined and only Allen remained on the team, these were his YPC.

3.7
4.1
4.2
4.2
4.1
3.9
3.8

Ages 27 to 33.

From 91' to 95', Smith had FIVE 1,400 yard seasons.
SEVEN times a linesman from Dallas was selected to the all-pro team.

Smith had ZERO seasons of 1,400 yards after 95'.
His YPC wasn't impressive.

To give you an idea, Barry Sanders during the same time-frame played behind only ONE all-pro linesman [Lomas Brown].

Ended his career only 3,000 yards behind Smith on 1,300 less carries and had a 5.0 YPC.

That's a SPECIAL running back, kind of like Peterson is for Minnesota.
Smith is far from it, and it hurts my head when idiots actually call this guy the greatest back ever or top 5.


You just said you never evaluate running backs on their number alone....yet you go on to rant about Smiths numbers through his career.....

Emmith was a great running back, and what made him even better was his durability and longevity......
Rondooooooooooo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 01:25 PM   #27
West-Side
Goat Loading
 
West-Side's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,899
Default Re: Todd Gurley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondooooooooooo
You just said you never evaluate running backs on their number alone....yet you go on to rant about Smiths numbers through his career.....

Emmith was a great running back, and what made him even better was his durability and longevity......

I'm giving you reasons why I think Smith was overrated.
Numbers can be misleading and Smith is the perfect example of that.

Despite having a terrific offensive line for most of the 90's, he still didn't average a high yards per carry. My EYES determine where I place Smith (out of the top 10) but when I have a conversation online with strangers, I have to use objective data to express my opinion.

You guys are aboslute morons if you believe Smith is better than Payton, Brown, Peterson, Sanders or Faulk.

Absolute MORONS.
The fact that Smith didn't even have more than ONE season of 5.0+ YPC with that incredible offensive line AND a great passing game from Aikman/Irving to open the field for him is pathetic.

Again, Smith is a good (perhaps great) running back but he is a tier below the truly special ones.

He was only 5.2% above league average in YPC playing behind the most DOMINANT offensive line in football for the first half of the decade.

For instance, Peterson is 22.5% above league average in YPC.
West-Side is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 01:40 PM   #28
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,844
Default Re: Todd Gurley

Quote:
Originally Posted by West-Side
Absolute MORONS.
The fact that Smith didn't even have more than ONE season of 5.0+ YPC with that incredible offensive line AND a great passing game from Aikman/Irving to open the field for him is pathetic.


so now Emmitt Smith is "pathetic" ?


just stop
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 01:41 PM   #29
oarabbus
3-time NBA All-Star
 
oarabbus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 10,331
Default Re: Todd Gurley

Ok I think there have been some pretty extreme things about LEGENDARY players in this thread. Smith is a legend...


...but if anyone thinks Emmitt Smith is better than Barry Sanders, go home and stop watching football. That is all.
oarabbus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 01:48 PM   #30
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,844
Default Re: Todd Gurley

Smith ran for 1,000+ yards 11 consecutive years

guess how many other players have done that?....zero

just 25 yards short of doing it for 12 straight years...



Emmitt is a very worthy HOF RB...he had arguably the greatest CAREER a RB has ever had.

You can argue that others had better SEASONS than he ever had...but there aren't many that had arguably better careers...if any at all.
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:51 AM.




NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy