Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Football Forum

Football Forum Football forum - NFL football forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-15-2015, 01:20 PM   #16
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,768
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by West-Side
Not if it's a close game and you're trying to actually win the game.
Than your performance throughout the game matters.

I don't care about the QBR, I'm giving you a general overview of why clutch play is critical to evaluating QB's value.

It's not a matter of perception, it's a matter of reality.
If your QB (aka Manning) can rack up stats but fails to win big games, or has miscues in the 4th quarter; should you not penalize him for that?

Considering the QB is the single most important position on a team in late game situations.
QBs don't win or lose games, TEAMS do...52 other players and a coaching staff...THAT is 'reality'

more REALITY: A TD scored in the 1st quarter has literally the same impact on the final score as a TD in the 4th quarter...they are literally worth the same amount, they literally are equal in determining a winner.

Passer rating treats all TDs as equal (the way it should be)
QBR treats 'clutch TDs' as far more valuable than other TDs (flawed logic)

That is why we see QBs with 4 TDs and no INTs getting crap QBR stats, because their good play came early in the game rather than late, which is stupid considering all TDs are equal.
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 01:24 PM   #17
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,768
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

QB-A:
first 3 Qs: 5 TDs, 0 INTs
4th Q: 0 TDs, 1 INT
Offense scores 35 points

QB-B:
1st Q: 0 TDs, 1 INT
last 3 quarters: 5 TDs, 0 INTs
Offense scores 35 points


^^^ those two are EQUAL in passer rating (and in reality), but in Total QBR they would be miles apart
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 01:43 PM   #18
West-Side
Goat Loading
 
West-Side's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,899
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

You're an absolute moron.
That is why Tom Brady has 4 super bowls and Peyton Manning has 1.
West-Side is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 01:45 PM   #19
West-Side
Goat Loading
 
West-Side's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,899
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

The context of the situation gives different weights to touchdowns.
A touchdown scored in the 1st quarter is not equivalent to a touchdown scored late in the 4th quarter to win the game.

If you can't understand the difference than you are dumber than I initially thought.
West-Side is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 02:12 PM   #20
Bless Mathews
454 Dumper
 
Bless Mathews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the underground
Posts: 10,953
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
QBs don't win or lose games, TEAMS do...52 other players and a coaching staff...THAT is 'reality'

more REALITY: A TD scored in the 1st quarter has literally the same impact on the final score as a TD in the 4th quarter...they are literally worth the same amount, they literally are equal in determining a winner.

Passer rating treats all TDs as equal (the way it should be)
QBR treats 'clutch TDs' as far more valuable than other TDs (flawed logic)

That is why we see QBs with 4 TDs and no INTs getting crap QBR stats, because their good play came early in the game rather than late, which is stupid considering all TDs are equal.




That first statement is dat "I'm so dumb I get brainwashed by politically correct coach talk"

For real bruh.

You of all people should know how important a qb is to TEAM.

what's Cowboys record without romo????


Bless Mathews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 02:16 PM   #21
Bless Mathews
454 Dumper
 
Bless Mathews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the underground
Posts: 10,953
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
QB-A:
first 3 Qs: 5 TDs, 0 INTs
4th Q: 0 TDs, 1 INT
Offense scores 35 points

QB-B:
1st Q: 0 TDs, 1 INT
last 3 quarters: 5 TDs, 0 INTs
Offense scores 35 points


^^^ those two are EQUAL in passer rating (and in reality), but in Total QBR they would be miles apart

I agree on that.

But there is something wrong with it.

Blake bortells has 4 tds. His team KILLED opponent and somehow he got a 3.8 QBR. ????

Out of 100?? Where 50 is average????


Come on bruh. That is just RetOarded.

A 3.8???

A 4 td game (with I think 0 maybe only one pick) and his team killed other team equals missing 96 out of a 100 on a test???

What??? Only getting 4 right out of 100 questions?

Come on bruh.
Bless Mathews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 03:24 PM   #22
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,768
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by West-Side
The context of the situation gives different weights to touchdowns.
A touchdown scored in the 1st quarter is not equivalent to a touchdown scored late in the 4th quarter to win the game.

If you can't understand the difference than you are dumber than I initially thought.
they literally have the same impact on the final score, they are equally as meaningful

in a close win...EVERY SINGLE TD SCORED is needed and holds the same amount of importance, not just the last one.

you're not bright enough to understand this simple logic...in your eyes every game is won by a QB in the last minutes.
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 03:32 PM   #23
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,768
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

You guys who feel like not all TDs are equal, you believe 4th Q TDs >>> 1st Q TDs, "clutch" is all that matters, etc...Total QBR is the stat FOR YOU, it was made for you.

ESPN saw people complaining that passer rating didn't account for 'clutch' moments, nor did it account for rushing...so what ESPN did was create a stat that puts all the emphasis on TDs/yards/INTs scored late in games when the score is close.

QBR explained:

Quote:
The final major step is to look at how "clutch" the situation was when creating expected points. A normal play has a clutch index of 1.0. For instance, first-and-goal from the 10-yard line in a tie game at the start of the second quarter has a clutch index of almost exactly 1.0. A more clutch situation, one late in the game when the game is close -- the same situation as above but midway through the fourth quarter, for example -- has a clutch index of about 2.0. Maximum clutch indices are about 3.0, and minimum indices are about 0.3.

These clutch index values came from an analysis of how different situations affect a game's win probability on average. One way to think of it is in terms of pressure. A clutch play is defined before the play by how close the game appears to be. Down four points with three seconds to go and facing third-and-goal from the 3-yard line -- that is a high-pressure and high-clutch index situation because the play can realistically raise the odds of winning to almost 100 percent or bring them down from about 40 percent to almost zero percent. The same situation from midfield isn't as high pressure because it's very unlikely that the team will pull out the victory. Sure, a Hail Mary can pull the game out, but if it doesn't work, the team didn't fail on that play so much as it failed before then. On third-and-goal from the 3-yard line, failure means people will be talking about that final play and what went wrong.

The clutch indices are multiplied by the quarterback's expected points on plays when the QB had a significant contribution, then divided by the sum of the clutch indices and multiplied by 100 to get a clutch-valued expected points added per 100 plays.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/68...terback-rating



read the bold

minimum situations are worth 0.3
maximum is worth 3.0

That means a TD scored late in the 4th is worth 10x more than a TD early in the 1st.
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 03:34 PM   #24
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15,653
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by West-Side
Not if it's a close game and you're trying to actually win the game.
Than your performance throughout the game matters.

I don't care about the QBR, I'm giving you a general overview of why clutch play is critical to evaluating QB's value.

It's not a matter of perception, it's a matter of reality.
If your QB (aka Manning) can rack up stats but fails to win big games, or has miscues in the 4th quarter; should you not penalize him for that?

Considering the QB is the single most important position on a team in late game situations.

Not when you are doing it through a subjective "statistical analysis", and then trying to pretend it is objective. That's what QBR is clearly doing.

Last edited by Euroleague : 12-15-2015 at 03:44 PM.
Euroleague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 03:37 PM   #25
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15,653
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
QBs don't win or lose games, TEAMS do...52 other players and a coaching staff...THAT is 'reality'

more REALITY: A TD scored in the 1st quarter has literally the same impact on the final score as a TD in the 4th quarter...they are literally worth the same amount, they literally are equal in determining a winner.

Passer rating treats all TDs as equal (the way it should be)
QBR treats 'clutch TDs' as far more valuable than other TDs (flawed logic)

That is why we see QBs with 4 TDs and no INTs getting crap QBR stats, because their good play came early in the game rather than late, which is stupid considering all TDs are equal.

Also there is the fact that if you throw 3-4 touchdowns early, and the game is over at halftime, or early to mid third quarter, then the rest of the game that QB does not throw the ball, while the opposing QB starts throwing the ball all over the place, and the defense he is going against allows short to mid range passes.

Basically, according to the "logic" used by QBR, the QB that got blown out early in the game, and then stat padded late in the game against prevent defense, "played much better" than the QB that finished the game early and helped his team win the game.

Which pretty much itself proves that QBR is the most ridiculous sports stat ever created.

Last edited by Euroleague : 12-15-2015 at 03:45 PM.
Euroleague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 03:40 PM   #26
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15,653
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by West-Side
You're an absolute moron.
That is why Tom Brady has 4 super bowls and Peyton Manning has 1.

Not as it relates to QBR. Everyone that is not a Brady hater and/or a Manning knob slobber knows Brady is way better in the clutch and in big games than Manning is.

However, Manning and Brady have about the same QBR in the playoffs, and Manning has a higher QBR in the regular season.

So QBR says Manning is "more clutch" than Brady is............even though the exact 180 opposite is actually true.

Last edited by Euroleague : 12-15-2015 at 03:45 PM.
Euroleague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 03:43 PM   #27
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15,653
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
You guys who feel like not all TDs are equal, you believe 4th Q TDs >>> 1st Q TDs, "clutch" is all that matters, etc...Total QBR is the stat FOR YOU, it was made for you.

ESPN saw people complaining that passer rating didn't account for 'clutch' moments, nor did it account for rushing...so what ESPN did was create a stat that puts all the emphasis on TDs/yards/INTs scored late in games when the score is close.

QBR explained:


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/68...terback-rating



read the bold

minimum situations are worth 0.3
maximum is worth 3.0

That means a TD scored late in the 4th is worth 10x more than a TD early in the 1st.


In other words, ESPN created QBR as a way to make stat padders in garbage time and against prevent defenses look better than they really are.

As in, ESPN created the stat to slobber on the knobs of guys like Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers.....and now it is backfiring on them, because the stat is so ridiculous.
Euroleague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 03:49 PM   #28
Nanners
hugh mungus what?
 
Nanners's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: oregon
Posts: 7,321
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

QBR has both ryan fitzpatrick and tyrod taylor rated higher than cam newton for this season... so yeah no doubt its a great stat.

Last edited by Nanners : 12-15-2015 at 04:07 PM.
Nanners is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 03:57 PM   #29
West-Side
Goat Loading
 
West-Side's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,899
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euroleague
Not as it relates to QBR. Everyone that is not a Brady hater and/or a Manning knob slobber knows Brady is way better in the clutch and in big games than Manning is.

However, Manning and Brady have about the same QBR in the playoffs, and Manning has a higher QBR in the regular season.

So QBR says Manning is "more clutch" than Brady is............even though the exact 180 opposite is actually true.

I never once talked about the QBR, I could care less about this stat.
In fact, I enjoy putting context into every situation.

I'm not going to waste my time replying to prime-time, this guy only understands black & white.
West-Side is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 04:24 PM   #30
TomBrady
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

I'm the greatest QB of all time, we don't need stats to realize that.
  Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:


Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:15 AM.




NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook


















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy