Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Football Forum

Football Forum Football forum - NFL football forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-16-2015, 01:29 PM   #46
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,832
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

That isn't what I am debating though...a game week 17 by two teams mathematically out is less meaningful than the Super Bowl...obviously

I am saying in a close game EVERY TD WAS EQUALLY IMPORTANT to the final score. That isn't how QBR sees it though.


all things equal...a TD is a TD

Last edited by ~primetime~ : 12-16-2015 at 01:38 PM.
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 01:43 PM   #47
Rondooooooooooo
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Celtics-Suns Broncos-Cardinals
Posts: 1,308
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

idk this is tough.......

I dont think QB's always win games, but there are always going to be certain situations where it seems like he does.

Lets say the game is tied, 2:00 left in the 4ht quarter, and QB A has a amazing drive and scores, but the kicker misses the extra point. There is :45 seconds left on the clock, and QB B starts at his own 20. QB B makes ill advised throws, throws a INT but it is called back due to defensive penalty. QB B throws a simple screen pass, and the defense blows coverage and misses a tackle, so they score a touchdown and make the extra point.....so QB A lost and QB B won, even tho QB A was more clutch making plays, and QB B scored on blown coverage and threw a INT that was called back

Because what happened, QB B will have a better QBR because he is "clutch"

You guys see what I am saying? One QB can play better than the other, but still lose, it is all about the situation. You think Brady won the super bowl last night because he is clutch? No, he won because his defense.

Even tho having a franchise QB is a cornerstone in having a successful, it doesnt always work out like that, in example Drew Brees and Blake Bortles this season.......while you have Vikings fighting for playoff even tho Bridgewater is playing mediocre......
Rondooooooooooo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 01:45 PM   #48
West-Side
Goat Loading
 
West-Side's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,899
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondooooooooooo
idk this is tough.......

I dont think QB's always win games, but there are always going to be certain situations where it seems like he does.

Lets say the game is tied, 2:00 left in the 4ht quarter, and QB A has a amazing drive and scores, but the kicker misses the extra point. There is :45 seconds left on the clock, and QB B starts at his own 20. QB B makes ill advised throws, throws a INT but it is called back due to defensive penalty. QB B throws a simple screen pass, and the defense blows coverage and misses a tackle, so they score a touchdown and make the extra point.....so QB A lost and QB B won, even tho QB A was more clutch making plays, and QB B scored on blown coverage and threw a INT that was called back

Because what happened, QB B will have a better QBR because he is "clutch"

You guys see what I am saying? One QB can play better than the other, but still lose, it is all about the situation. You think Brady won the super bowl last night because he is clutch? No, he won because his defense.

Even tho having a franchise QB is a cornerstone in having a successful, it doesnt always work out like that, in example Drew Brees and Blake Bortles this season.......while you have Vikings fighting for playoff even tho Bridgewater is playing mediocre......

I'm giving you scenarios where the QB is the responsible culprit though.
He's the one that made accurate throws to decide the game, while the other QB choked.

What you said is exactly why I always use context when evaluating players.
Which is why Cam Newton is the MVP; not because his passing numbers are legendary, but because he's been extremely clutch and ice cold in pressure situations all season long. Plus he has very impressive rushing numbers.
West-Side is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 01:46 PM   #49
Bless Mathews
454 Dumper
 
Bless Mathews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the underground
Posts: 10,956
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
That isn't what I am debating though...a game week 17 by two teams mathematically out is less meaningful than the Super Bowl...obviously

I am saying in a close game EVERY TD WAS EQUALLY IMPORTANT to the final score. That isn't how QBR sees it though.


all things equal...a TD is a TD

It is but it is isn't.

When the game is on the line it's more important. Bottom line.
Bless Mathews is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 02:21 PM   #50
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,832
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bless Mathews
It is but it is isn't.

When the game is on the line it's more important. Bottom line.
Playoff games ate more important than regular season games, but all regular season games are equal.

Eli might have cost the Giant's their part season in week 1 this year.

A win is a win and a loss is a loss mathematically speaking.
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 02:30 PM   #51
Carbine
Facts Are Misleading
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A Court Near You
Posts: 7,978
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Mathematically speaking, a division lose is more damaging than a lose out of conference.

A lose is a lose does not apply in the NFL.
Carbine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 02:46 PM   #52
~primetime~
~the original p.tiddy~
 
~primetime~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ~dallas,texas~ team: ~cowboys~
Posts: 21,832
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Mathematically speaking, a division lose is more damaging than a lose out of conference.

A lose is a lose does not apply in the NFL.
That is absolutely true, i stand corrected

Divisional games are more important
~primetime~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 03:19 PM   #53
Bless Mathews
454 Dumper
 
Bless Mathews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the underground
Posts: 10,956
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Mathematically speaking, a division lose is more damaging than a lose out of conference.

A lose is a lose does not apply in the NFL.


Lil carby with the SLAY.

work on your typing doe lil niggah.

"Loss is a loss"
Bless Mathews is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 03:22 PM   #54
Bless Mathews
454 Dumper
 
Bless Mathews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the underground
Posts: 10,956
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
Playoff games ate more important than regular season games, but all regular season games are equal.

Eli might have cost the Giant's their part season in week 1 this year.

A win is a win and a loss is a loss mathematically speaking.

Ummmm no.

And Qbs do win or loose games btw.

Come on.

There's always so much context and so many examples can disprove the other.

Hypotheticals

Aks ANY ex or current qb, coach , player, they will NOT say a td is a td and talk how important crunch time is.

No getting around that.


Period.
Bless Mathews is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 10:41 PM   #55
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15,653
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed



Aaron Rodgers against the Denver Broncos in game number 7, on 11/1/15........

14/22
63.6 completion %
77 yards passing
0 touchdowns
0 interceptions
3 sacks for 27 yards
QB Rating 69.7


Packers lose the game by a score of 29 to 10.

Rodgers' Total QBR for the game = 64.6


http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400791684


Tom Brady against the Miami Dolphins in game number 7, on 10/29/15........

26/38
68.4 completion %
356 yards passing
4 touchdowns
0 interceptions
2 sacks for 14 yards
QB Rating 133.2


Patriots win the game by a score of 36 to 7.

Brady's Total QBR for the game = 60.7


http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400791601


Trent Dilfer (who created Total QBR) needs to put the pipe down for a bit....


Last edited by Euroleague : 12-16-2015 at 10:44 PM.
Euroleague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 11:58 PM   #56
tmacattack33
Very good NBA starter
 
tmacattack33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,337
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
That isn't what I am debating though...a game week 17 by two teams mathematically out is less meaningful than the Super Bowl...obviously

I am saying in a close game EVERY TD WAS EQUALLY IMPORTANT to the final score. That isn't how QBR sees it though.


all things equal...a TD is a TD

This is not true man.

In the first quarter, lets say you score two TD's.

Now, because you scored those TD's, the other team will play the rest of the game differently. As will your team.

A football game (or any game as far as I know...except Golf) is not just a bunch of isolated drives put together. It's all connected. One team scores, now the other team can react.

On a TD with 2 seconds left in the game however, the other team has no time to react. Which makes it more important.




Or put it like this...if each TD meant the same thing like you say it does...what you are proposing is that if we let one team have 10 drives and then give the other team 10 drives (without knowing the outcome of team A's 10 drives), that the score at the end of this "game" would be the exact same thing as if these two teams played a real football game against each other. Obviously this is not true.
tmacattack33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2015, 12:18 AM   #57
Bless Mathews
454 Dumper
 
Bless Mathews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the underground
Posts: 10,956
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmacattack33
This is not true man.

In the first quarter, lets say you score two TD's.

Now, because you scored those TD's, the other team will play the rest of the game differently. As will your team.

A football game (or any game as far as I know...except Golf) is not just a bunch of isolated drives put together. It's all connected. One team scores, now the other team can react.

On a TD with 2 seconds left in the game however, the other team has no time to react. Which makes it more important.




Or put it like this...if each TD meant the same thing like you say it does...what you are proposing is that if we let one team have 10 drives and then give the other team 10 drives (without knowing the outcome of team A's 10 drives), that the score at the end of this "game" would be the exact same thing as if these two teams played a real football game against each other. Obviously this is not true.

Slayed



There is no reasoning with a fantasy football stat ho.

Stats stats stats.

Cus in fantasy football a touchdown IS worth as much as any other touchdown.

It's dat FANTASY approach to a REAL game.

The same guy that doesn't think Qbs can single handedly be responsible for a win when he sees it everytime his qb gets injured.

Bless Mathews is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 01:04 PM   #58
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15,653
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

What is funny is that pro football focus has figured QBR using supposedly that ESPN claims is the method they use, and they come up with different numbers than ESPN has.........
Euroleague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 12:49 PM   #59
Euroleague
I Feel Devotion
 
Euroleague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15,653
Default Re: The Joke Of Total QBR Exposed

If you look atESPN's weekly and season leaders for QBR....

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

You can see in the Raw QBR (the ACTUAL performance level), how each QB actually scores under the system.

But then, you can see that the "Adjusted (Total) QBR" stat is the stat that ESPN chooses to use to rank the QBs and to rate which ones have had the best season's based on this stat.

But....the actual QBR score is the Raw QBR stat.

The "Adjusted (Total) QBR" stat is supposedly (according to ESPN), "adjusted" based on the opponent and the performance of all other QBs across the league....

In other words, they simply IGNORE the actual QBR stat (Raw QBR), and make up their own numbers and rankings instead, and they even admit that they do that?

WTF?

Raw QBR (the actual QBR stat)

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/sort/qbr


"Adjusted (Total) QBR (NOT the actual stat, but nonetheless what ESPN uses to rank "QBR leaders")

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr


Last edited by Euroleague : 12-26-2016 at 12:54 PM.
Euroleague is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:59 PM.




NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook


















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy