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Old 04-30-2007, 07:00 PM   #16
gts
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

I personally think that odom and kobe would be quite successful if the offene was designed around a two man game, with kobe's all around skills and odoms ability to exploit the mismatch they could kep most teams off balance...

the problem is that PJax is so in love with the triangle he refuses to try something new...i realize he has had great runs usung that style offense but it's so complicated that the team various players have troble sometimes finding their exact role within the system. os when we have a season like this with so many injuries a more simple up tempo type of game would have benefitted the team...
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Old 04-30-2007, 07:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devientz
Pretty much sums up how I feel about the guy. Odom is like the Ultimate roleplayer, he would be great for any team to have, he just doesn't fill the giant void that exists with this squad. I see Odom as the type of player that will never win a ring. Hes not good enough to take a team there by himself, but hes too good to fit on any team that has a chance because of how much hes worth. I wish hed take a pay cut and we had more to work with so we could keep him and add around him and Kobe, but I dont see that happening.

Newsflash in case you don't know because that comment was pretty stupid if you didn't know although I suppose you did know but he can't negotiate his contract or anything like that.
Until it's up, it's what it is. $13 mill this year and going up.

The other part is correct. Odom has no place on a championship team.
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Old 04-30-2007, 07:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
I personally think that odom and kobe would be quite successful if the offene was designed around a two man game, with kobe's all around skills and odoms ability to exploit the mismatch they could kep most teams off balance...

the problem is that PJax is so in love with the triangle he refuses to try something new...i realize he has had great runs usung that style offense but it's so complicated that the team various players have troble sometimes finding their exact role within the system. os when we have a season like this with so many injuries a more simple up tempo type of game would have benefitted the team...

Funny as always.

Now triangle is the problem? It was Rudy T first, right? Then it was Kobe. Then the injuries. Now Phil is the problem.

Seems like everyone but Lamar Odom always get blamed for the shortcomings of Lamar Odom. Just beatiful.

Phil getting rid of the triangle...yuuuuup.

Odom and Kobe being successful together in a different kind of offense..yuuuuup. Like that worked in 2005.

Keep dreaming, as usual.

At least now you admit that Odom should not be the part of the triangle because it isn't his game.
Good, we're going step by step, maybe you get there eventually.

Odom has had his chances in every single role that he can play.

He was the tradional PF
He was the SF
He was the point forward
He's now a ballhandling do it all PF..

What else should Phil do? A 2man game between Kobe and Odom. Those two have terrible chemistry. When was the last time they played off each other or something, when was the last time they run a p&r? That Dwight Howard dunk comes to mind.

But good, slowly but surely yall are starting to see the obvious.

And don't blame injuries, the Lakers were preeetty good without Odom, it's the loss of Luke that hurt them.

Last edited by Liberalo : 04-30-2007 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 04-30-2007, 07:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

Like many have said
Lamar is struggling WITH Kobe together,
not because of his style clashes with Kobe
but because of the players around them just simply doesn't have enough talents
besides Kobe and Lamar
all our other starters would only be a 2nd/3rd option in any other championship type team

And the only other reason why Lamar is getting all this beating
is only because of his contract being 13 mil an year
and some may argue because of that, we can not bring in another star player

but that's not really the case, it's the fact that Mitch has been giving out bad contracts, and therefore we do not have any caps to sign another All-star player

just think about if we took out all our useless contracts
Shammond Williams Vrad(sorry, although I do think he's a good player)
Mckie (really, what were you thinking) Grant (finally we're done paying him next year)
Brian Cook (What exactly do you do again?) and Mihm (injury, can't blame it on him)

then we'd be able to sign another star
I think with a player as talented as Kobe, you need talents around him
kinda like the Suns and the Pistons
where you have 5 very talented starters, but an okay bench
we can't try to do the Spurs route, just because our star player is not a big

Lamar is not why Laker is losing, his contract isn't the only issue of why we can't get another star
it's really just about all these other players who can't produce but got a contract
I'm okay with signing extension with rookies, but signing Mckie and Williams?

we need talents and not veterans, Lamar has the talent to be on a championship team, keep him if we can, bye bye Bynum is what I say.
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Old 04-30-2007, 09:36 PM   #20
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberalo
Newsflash in case you don't know because that comment was pretty stupid if you didn't know although I suppose you did know but he can't negotiate his contract or anything like that.
Until it's up, it's what it is. $13 mill this year and going up.

The other part is correct. Odom has no place on a championship team.
Yes I do know that actually.
I just suck at typing today. I wish he could take a paycut...is what I meant.

Thanks for putting me in my place though
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Old 04-30-2007, 09:43 PM   #21
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberalo
Newsflash in case you don't know because that comment was pretty stupid if you didn't know although I suppose you did know but he can't negotiate his contract or anything like that.
Until it's up, it's what it is. $13 mill this year and going up.

The other part is correct. Odom has no place on a championship team.


Your hate for Odom, is getting in the way of all your posts dude. You need to stop. The guy isnt a bad guy and just plays the game. Is one of the classiest guys in the league. I have heard several anlysts say he is very versatile and not a lot of people can stop him when he is at the top of his game. So you need to lay off him a bit, he is not the greatest but he is not the worst. I can almost guarantee that any team would want a versatile guy like Odom, because he does so much. Just cause he might not work well with Kobe doesnt mean his career is over and he cant play good with anyone else, the guy has talent and with the right team he can excel, I guarantee you that.

Also Lamar and Kobe are probably one of the only to people that play with heart and passion. Another thing is you keep blaming Lamar for our struggles, but then when we blamed Smush. You got pissed. Lamar is not even considered a problem at this point(you are the only one who thinks he is). Its the players lack of mental toughness and not playing Defense at all, CAUSE AS SOCAL SAYS DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. Imo no one guys deserves the blames on this team, its a team game and when a team loses that includes everybody, I dont care who you are.

Last edited by Cool : 04-30-2007 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool
Your hate for Odom, is getting in the way of all your posts dude. You need to stop. The guy isnt a bad guy and just plays the game. Is one of the classiest guys in the league. I have heard several anlysts say he is very versatile and not a lot of people can stop him when he is at the top of his game. So you need to lay off him a bit, he is not the greatest but he is not the worst. I can almost guarantee that any team would want a versatile guy like Odom, because he does so much. Just cause he might not work well with Kobe doesnt mean his career is over and he cant play good with anyone else, the guy has talent and with the right team he can excel, I guarantee you that.

Also Lamar and Kobe are probably one of the only to people that play with heart and passion. Another thing is you keep blaming Lamar for our struggles, but then when we blamed Smush. You got pissed. Lamar is not even considered a problem at this point(you are the only one who thinks he is). Its the players lack of mental toughness and not playing Defense at all, CAUSE AS SOCAL SAYS DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. Imo no one guys deserves the blames on this team, its a team game and when a team loses that includes everybody, I dont care who you are.
ROCK ON COOL! well said, fair, UNBIASED and to the point....
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwliuLAP
Like many have said
Lamar is struggling WITH Kobe together,
not because of his style clashes with Kobe
but because of the players around them just simply doesn't have enough talents
besides Kobe and Lamar
all our other starters would only be a 2nd/3rd option in any other championship type team

And the only other reason why Lamar is getting all this beating
is only because of his contract being 13 mil an year
and some may argue because of that, we can not bring in another star player

but that's not really the case, it's the fact that Mitch has been giving out bad contracts, and therefore we do not have any caps to sign another All-star player

just think about if we took out all our useless contracts
Shammond Williams Vrad(sorry, although I do think he's a good player)
Mckie (really, what were you thinking) Grant (finally we're done paying him next year)
Brian Cook (What exactly do you do again?) and Mihm (injury, can't blame it on him)

then we'd be able to sign another star
I think with a player as talented as Kobe, you need talents around him
kinda like the Suns and the Pistons
where you have 5 very talented starters, but an okay bench
we can't try to do the Spurs route, just because our star player is not a big

Lamar is not why Laker is losing, his contract isn't the only issue of why we can't get another star
it's really just about all these other players who can't produce but got a contract
I'm okay with signing extension with rookies, but signing Mckie and Williams?

we need talents and not veterans, Lamar has the talent to be on a championship team, keep him if we can, bye bye Bynum is what I say.

Look if trading Lamar is going to give us a big time all-star PG or scoring PF/C I'm fine, but ultimately that's not going to be enough either. We need multiple players, isn't that obvious? We have a bunch of 1-dimensional players on the bench and only 3 guys (Kobe, Lamar, maybe Luke) that would be starting on another team. I'm not sure what your talking about with the Spurs. The Spurs have one big time player (Duncan) but they also have two all-star caliber players in Tony Parker and Ginobili and a bunch of good veteran bench guys. Theres no team contending right now with a team as low on the overall talent rating as the Lakers. That's just another testament to why Kobe is so great and Lamar busting his ass. If we can keep Lamar and add 1-2 solid starters and 1-2 veteran bench guys (all who play defense and can score) I don't think we need another all-star (Lamar will be one). But without question we need more talent, theres no way around that simple fact.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:53 PM   #24
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

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Originally Posted by gts
ROCK ON COOL! well said, fair, UNBIASED and to the point....

Thanks man
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:59 PM   #25
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakerDynasty00
Look if trading Lamar is going to give us a big time all-star PG or scoring PF/C I'm fine, but ultimately that's not going to be enough either. We need multiple players, isn't that obvious? We have a bunch of 1-dimensional players on the bench and only 3 guys (Kobe, Lamar, maybe Luke) that would be starting on another team. I'm not sure what your talking about with the Spurs. The Spurs have one big time player (Duncan) but they also have two all-star caliber players in Tony Parker and Ginobili and a bunch of good veteran bench guys. Theres no team contending right now with a team as low on the overall talent rating as the Lakers. That's just another testament to why Kobe is so great and Lamar busting his ass. If we can keep Lamar and add 1-2 solid starters and 1-2 veteran bench guys (all who play defense and can score) I don't think we need another all-star (Lamar will be one). But without question we need more talent, theres no way around that simple fact.


what I'm saying is Spurs IMO only has one real all star
Tim Duncan, Parker and Manu are all benefiting from a great system with above average talent
I think Dallas and Suns both have most talent than the Spurs
but the Spurs plays a team ball, so talen isn't as important as basketball IQ
kinda like how Luke is playing well

what I'm saying is, like you said, another all star is not enough if we give up Odom
the team will still not have enough talent to play the way PJax likes to play
I just think Odom isn't the problem, the problem is we have a lot of bench players who are just 1 dimensional as you mentioned

well, let them go away, stop paying those people, then you'll have enough cap to sign another talented player
we don't need a deep bench is what I'm trying to get at,
we need 3 stars, and if they all can be healthy, we will win, it's that simple
even if we were to have a good bench, and a not so talented starting lineup
it will still not work

Spurs starting line up isn't that talented, just look at the Center position
but they play great team ball

Suns is just relying on talent all the way
that's how we should be
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

I think liberalo is not clear on what a hypothetical question is so i'll rephrase it...
As we know the Triangle offense is a complicated offense, on that I think we can all agree... some notes on the TRI

*The first two years of PJ in LA the Lkaers ran a modified triangle offense that was just the bare bones of the whole system

*Most of the times when kobe is on a scoring rampage he is not operating within the system as planned by PJ but the other players are, that creates problems as it would with most systems when everyone is not on the same page. this is no slight of Kobe, when he needs to put up numbers to keep the lakes in the game he cannot operate within a system that is struggling.

*when you run an offense or system that is complicated it takes time for everyone to learn..

*the NBA season is long with lots of travel and not much time between games for indepth practices.. defense has always taken a back seat to the tri as long as phil has been here, the years when we had defensive players like fox, fisher, horry, kobe and shaq it was not as glaring an issue...

*The triangle was originally designed as a "zone beater offense" but it is a 40 year old system and players are bigger faster and used to playing zone nowdays so it's usefulness has been negated

* when injuries raise their ugly head on the level of this season it would be nice to have a system to fall back on that didn't require everyone to have had major time within the system, it is the triangle that made chris webber head to detroit if i'm not mistaken...

*we have young players that could be running the open court and putting pressure on the oponents instead of every time down court there is 5 guys waiting for our lakers...


I'm not say abandon the Tri it is a series of formations not a set group of plays... phil needs to run the tri in a way that is designed around the atributes of the players and stop trying to put players into the atrributes of the tri, odom is not our scotty pippen but he is a damn good player and kobe is more versatile than jordan...

and this post has nothing to do with feelings of odoms or any players value in trade discussions, those are for another thread
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:28 AM   #27
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool
Your hate for Odom, is getting in the way of all your posts dude. You need to stop. The guy isnt a bad guy and just plays the game. Is one of the classiest guys in the league. I have heard several anlysts say he is very versatile and not a lot of people can stop him when he is at the top of his game. So you need to lay off him a bit, he is not the greatest but he is not the worst. I can almost guarantee that any team would want a versatile guy like Odom, because he does so much. Just cause he might not work well with Kobe doesnt mean his career is over and he cant play good with anyone else, the guy has talent and with the right team he can excel, I guarantee you that.

Also Lamar and Kobe are probably one of the only to people that play with heart and passion. Another thing is you keep blaming Lamar for our struggles, but then when we blamed Smush. You got pissed. Lamar is not even considered a problem at this point(you are the only one who thinks he is). Its the players lack of mental toughness and not playing Defense at all, CAUSE AS SOCAL SAYS DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. Imo no one guys deserves the blames on this team, its a team game and when a team loses that includes everybody, I dont care who you are.


Nice post Cool.
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:09 AM   #28
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool
Your hate for Odom, is getting in the way of all your posts dude. You need to stop. The guy isnt a bad guy and just plays the game. Is one of the classiest guys in the league. I have heard several anlysts say he is very versatile and not a lot of people can stop him when he is at the top of his game. So you need to lay off him a bit, he is not the greatest but he is not the worst. I can almost guarantee that any team would want a versatile guy like Odom, because he does so much. Just cause he might not work well with Kobe doesnt mean his career is over and he cant play good with anyone else, the guy has talent and with the right team he can excel, I guarantee you that.

Also Lamar and Kobe are probably one of the only to people that play with heart and passion. Another thing is you keep blaming Lamar for our struggles, but then when we blamed Smush. You got pissed. Lamar is not even considered a problem at this point(you are the only one who thinks he is). Its the players lack of mental toughness and not playing Defense at all, CAUSE AS SOCAL SAYS DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. Imo no one guys deserves the blames on this team, its a team game and when a team loses that includes everybody, I dont care who you are.




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Old 05-01-2007, 01:56 AM   #29
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heilige
Nice post Cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike




Thanks a lot guys
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Old 05-01-2007, 03:01 AM   #30
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Default Re: Article: Odom is sad and hurting; really wants to be a Laker for life

That touched me
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