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Old 05-04-2016, 05:55 PM   #46
JEFFERSON MONEY
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Default Re: Bloodbath STEM VS Bubble Bath Liberal Arts

No point debating on which one's difficult. Each soul on this board has its particular areas of interest.

So let's get started on the discussion men.

From a practical medicinal standpoint, are there pasttimes that are more conducive to one's overall health than basketball and message boarding? If so, choose and explain why with reasoning. To combat depression what are some steps one can undertake; and utilize neuroscience and quantifiable values ie. hormone levels to illustrate your point.

From an engineering standpoint, what can a group of rag-tag individuals brainstorm or construct that can have lasting impact on the world in the future?


From a theological standpoint, what can the people of ISH do to increase their faith in God and do better works for humanity?


From a philosophical standpoint, analogize the journey of life to a year as a player in the NBA, utilizing what you know of life's purpose, aim and meaning and creating parallels in an illustrious fashion. Don't hesitate to cite examples from thinkers with Lao Tzu all the way to Spinoza.
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Old 05-04-2016, 05:56 PM   #47
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Default Re: Bloodbath STEM VS Bubble Bath Liberal Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjizzle
hes skurred because hes a philosopher, not a technical minded person. it intimidates him.

.... He studies economics....

And Philosophy and all it's extensions; metaphysics, ethics, and just sharpening one's reasoning via metacognition apply to any and all domains. Ethically speaking, pharmacists REALLY have to ask themselves if what they're doing is right from a sense of Kantian duties (What is man's duty to another man in the healing professions? What is his overall intellectual responsibility?), from Utilitarianiasm's GHP, from Aristotle's virtues, from the classic American sense of freedom and self-reliance. There are 3-4 year olds hooked on various prescriptions right now and the number is growing.
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:33 PM   #48
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Default Re: Bloodbath STEM VS Bubble Bath Liberal Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEFFERSON MONEY
.... He studies economics....

And Philosophy and all it's extensions; metaphysics, ethics, and just sharpening one's reasoning via metacognition apply to any and all domains. Ethically speaking, pharmacists REALLY have to ask themselves if what they're doing is right from a sense of Kantian duties (What is man's duty to another man in the healing professions? What is his overall intellectual responsibility?), from Utilitarianiasm's GHP, from Aristotle's virtues, from the classic American sense of freedom and self-reliance. There are 3-4 year olds hooked on various prescriptions right now and the number is growing.
You realize a pharmacist's job is not to issue prescriptions right? Medical Practitioners licensed in their state issue out prescriptions, pharmacists just sign off on it to make sure the dosage is in line with the recommended treatment and that the medication is the correct given the intended therapy. Ultimately, a Pharmacist may deny a high dosage of narcotics, but that medical practitioner and his patient will find another pharmacist who will fill it. Also, that high dosage may be for a cancer patient, ethics does not play a role in free market america.
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:41 PM   #49
JEFFERSON MONEY
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Default Re: Bloodbath STEM VS Bubble Bath Liberal Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by highwhey
You realize a pharmacist's job is not to issue prescriptions right? Medical Practitioners licensed in their state issue out prescriptions, pharmacists just sign off on it to make sure the dosage is in line with the recommended treatment and that the medication is the correct given the intended therapy. Ultimately, a Pharmacist may deny a high dosage of narcotics, but that medical practitioner and his patient will find another pharmacist who will fill it. Also, that high dosage may be for a cancer patient, ethics does not play a role in free market america.

Apologies, you rightfully revealed my ignorance on the system of the industry.

Still, a new idea is brought up. Innocent Bystander Effect. What responsibility does man have to forbid evil?
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Old 05-05-2016, 11:49 AM   #50
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Default Re: Bloodbath STEM VS Bubble Bath Liberal Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjizzle
hes skurred because hes a philosopher, not a technical minded person. it intimidates him.
Philosophy is pretty damn technical. If you want to see this for yourself, you should try reading Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus, found online here:

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/5740/5740-pdf.pdf

From 5th section (considering you probably won't bother to look into it):
Quote:

5 Propositions are truth-functions of elementary propositions.
(An elementary proposition is a truth-function of itself.)

5.01 The elementary propositions are the truth-arguments of propositions.

5.02 It is natural to confuse the arguments of functions with the indices of names. For I recognize the meaning of the sign containing it from the argument just as much as from the index. In Russell’s “+c”, for example, “c” is an index which indicates that the whole sign is the addition sign for cardinal numbers.
But this way of symbolizing depends on arbitrary agreement, and one could choose a simple sign instead of “+c”: but in “∼p” “p” is not an index but an argument; the sense of “∼p” cannot be understood, unless the sense of “p” has previously been understood. (In the name Julius Csar, Julius is an index. The
index is always part of a description of the object to whose name we attach it, e.g. The Csar of the Julian gens.) The confusion of argument and index is, if I am not mistaken, at the root of Frege’s theory of the meaning of propositions and functions. For Frege the propositions of logic were names and their arguments the indices of these names.

5.1 The truth-functions can be ordered in series. That is the foundation of the theory of probability.

5.101 The truth-functions of every number of elementary propositions
can be written in a schema of the following kind:
(TTTT)(p, q) Tautology (if p then p, and if q then q) [p ⊃ p . q ⊃ q]
(FTTT)(p, q) in words: Not both p and q. [∼(p . q)]
(TFTT)(p, q) „ „ If q then p. [q ⊃ p]
(TTFT)(p, q) „ „ If p then q. [p ⊃ q]
(TTTF)(p, q) „ „ p or q. [p ∨ q]
(FFTT)(p, q) „ „ Not q. [∼q]
(FTFT)(p, q) „ „ Not p. [∼p]
(FTTF)(p, q) „ „ p or q, but not both. [p . ∼q : ∨ : q . ∼p]
(TFFT)(p, q) „ „ If p, then q; and if q, then p. [p ≡ q]
(TFTF)(p, q) „ „ p
(TTFF)(p, q) „ „ q
(FFFT)(p, q) „ „ Neither p nor q. [∼p . ∼q or p | q]
(FFTF)(p, q) „ „ p and not q. [p . ∼q]
(FTFF)(p, q) „ „ q and not p. [q . ∼p]
(TFFF)(p, q) „ „ p and q. [p . q]
(FFFF)(p, q) Contradiction (p and not p; and q and not q.) [p . ∼p . q . ∼q]
Those truth-possibilities of its truth-arguments, which verify the proposition, I shall call its truth-grounds.

5.11 If the truth-grounds which are common to a number of propositions
are all also truth-grounds of some one proposition, we say that the truth of this proposition follows from the truth of those propositions.

5.12 In particular the truth of a proposition p follows from that of a proposition q, if all the truth-grounds of the second are truthgrounds of the first.

5.121 The truth-grounds of q are contained in those of p; p follows from q.

5.122 If p follows from q, the sense of “p” is contained in that of “q”.


Are you trying to tell me this isn't technical?

Also, my knowledge of philosophy is rather limited to say the least, just not as limited as most others'. And since when does technicality validate something as being worthwhile? Many people are highly disparaging of religion, and yet theology is a highly technical discipline in itself. It's no coincidence that the father of differential and integral calculus (Leibniz) was also the progenitor of the doctrine of theodicy.
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Old 05-05-2016, 12:09 PM   #51
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Default Re: Bloodbath STEM VS Bubble Bath Liberal Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by highwhey
You realize a pharmacist's job is not to issue prescriptions right? Medical Practitioners licensed in their state issue out prescriptions, pharmacists just sign off on it to make sure the dosage is in line with the recommended treatment and that the medication is the correct given the intended therapy. Ultimately, a Pharmacist may deny a high dosage of narcotics, but that medical practitioner and his patient will find another pharmacist who will fill it. Also, that high dosage may be for a cancer patient, ethics does not play a role in free market america.
Oh, it most certainly does. It is just an assumed ethics of a rather narrow utilitarianism, managed by the calculations of cost/benefit analysis (which never capture the whole picture).

e.g.:

http://www.bloombergview.com/article...nefit-analysis

This can only be based upon ethical assumptions. I think Tocqueville said something about Americans like "never have a people been so philosophical in outlook and assumptions, while being so disdainful of philosophy proper." He was right in 1830, and he continues to be right today. You say ethics doesn't play a role in free market America, but free market proponents almost always try to justify their doctrines on a utilitarian basis (i.e. it's better for everyone in the long-run).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosnian Sajo
lmao, oh? Take an upper level Calculus class, let's see how Rote memorization works out for you
I said there were a few exceptions, and so you decide to quote back at me...an exception. Not to mention i've had to take classes that include advanced calculus, and from my experience, they aren't difficult, and can be learned by rote as well. A friend of mine, for Advanced Quants (mostly applied calculus), distilled everything that you needed to learn to get a 2:1 (second highest grade in UK), onto a sheet and a half of A4 paper. Now, i'm not saying this is the way to go to get a firm grasp of the subject, just that you can get by doing it, in most cases.

Or are you trying to say that most STEM students are rigorous mathematicians? LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ace23
lol

This is the most pretentious post I've read on this site.
And yet multiple people, who i've never seen anyone call "pretentious" said that this was their experience learning mathematics in school. So i really don't care if you think it's "pretentious" to state facts about the poor and unengaging way in which people are educated. Honestly, what could be more pretentious than taking the trouble to quote someone just so you can enjoy the privilege of declaring them "pretentious?"
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Old 05-05-2016, 06:15 PM   #52
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Default Re: Bloodbath STEM VS Bubble Bath Liberal Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dresta
And yet multiple people, who i've never seen anyone call "pretentious" said that this was their experience learning mathematics in school. So i really don't care if you think it's "pretentious" to state facts about the poor and unengaging way in which people are educated. Honestly, what could be more pretentious than taking the trouble to quote someone just so you can enjoy the privilege of declaring them "pretentious?"
And they suggested that schools should start 18-year-olds off with Euclid's Elements and teach them about the philosophical foundations of mathematics? Lol you can teach things in an interesting way without getting that deep. Most non-math majors are not going to be interested in that shit.

What adv. math classes have you taken that you were able to do well in through rote memorization? Just curious.
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Old 05-05-2016, 06:54 PM   #53
Bosnian Sajo
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Default Re: Bloodbath STEM VS Bubble Bath Liberal Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dresta


I said there were a few exceptions, and so you decide to quote back at me...an exception. Not to mention i've had to take classes that include advanced calculus, and from my experience, they aren't difficult, and can be learned by rote as well. A friend of mine, for Advanced Quants (mostly applied calculus), distilled everything that you needed to learn to get a 2:1 (second highest grade in UK), onto a sheet and a half of A4 paper. Now, i'm not saying this is the way to go to get a firm grasp of the subject, just that you can get by doing it, in most cases.

Or are you trying to say that most STEM students are rigorous mathematicians? LOL.


Idk about mathematicians, but we definitely know and understand math a hell of a lot more than the average college grad. I've already taken (and passed, thankfully) 6 math classes in my undergrad, god knows what is waiting for me once I transfer this summer. And idk how you can claim calculus is easy, that shit kicked my ass. Derivatives and the simple shit is easy, of course, but once you get deeper into it, it keeps getting more and more difficult.
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:41 PM   #54
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Default Re: Bloodbath STEM VS Bubble Bath Liberal Arts

Dresta isn't 100% wrong.

The only way I was able to pass STEM math classes was to do old tests and practice problems over and over again. That's not to say I'm not intelligent but I just couldn't get by without putting in a lot of work. There are some that no matter how much work they put in would not be able to do calculus.

It's not really the math though. It's the physics you can't get by without understanding. It's the poisson's ratio and young's modulus in a mechanics class you can't get by without understanding. Thermodynamics helps you understand why certain appliances work. You can't rote memorize that. These help you understand why the physical world works.

Not terribly difficult concepts but nevertheless you have to be able to comprehend what's going on. Engineers are taught to think...that's why you see them in sales positions, law positions, managerial positions, accounting positions etc. because they have a mindset that is a step up from the biz majors. It's the thought process that gets you to a solution is what's important, not necessarily knowing that the derivative of a velocity equation is equal to acceleration.

Current STEM majors shouldn't be ignorant like I was though and consider doing some philosophy reading or economics classes. Or some side reading. Pick one that won't require too much essay writing. Just learning and reading. Those are important to learn to make yourself a well rounded individual but not something that should be majored in. You can disagree but governments are having issues getting their loans paid back because students study useless degrees that don't pay.
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