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Old 08-19-2016, 11:14 PM   #646
juju151111
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Olympic game vs France Sunday at 1:15pm ET

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Ah huh.
I
DeAndre looked like a man amongst boys today. And, I can't say I was all that impressed with Spain's "tactics," though Gasol is still a hell of an offensive player in international play.

Team USA has its flaws -- mainly a lack of chemistry. But, we're still the best by a wide margin. The final score was much closer than the game.

And, Serbia is going to get a focused team on Sunday. It'll look a little different than the first time they saw us.
why do you want the 3 second rule. So players have open lanes.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:29 PM   #647
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Semifinals vs Spain Friday at 2:30pm ET

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
The no three second violation is just a horrendous non-rule that needs to change ... fast.

It basically turns every team into jumpshooters and, for guys that are extremely talented at getting to the basket, it kills what is a big part of the game.

I hate the stupid ball they use and the dumb basket interference rules, too.

that's how basketball should be played. There's no reason to handicap the defense just so the offense can put on more of a show.. that's entertainment. The olympics is trying to be about competition.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:49 PM   #648
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Semifinals vs Spain Friday at 2:30pm ET

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Originally Posted by Rooster
Without that rule, the chances of any team beating us is remote. Euros are too stiff and too unathletic and too soft to play us man to man. If we play under NBA rules, it will be like a dunking session for us.
Bingo. You and RBA right on the money. CuterthanRubio too.

It's why international ball is a joke, and visibly way inferior product to the NBA. And why nothing is more prestigious basketball wise than an NBA title.

Our league is the best of the best world over talents period, meshed as teams, with enough freedom for the best individual players to truly shine.

FIBA basketball hides poor man defenders and individual talents. Some of the guys who excel under international rule set would be neutured in the more athletic and skillful NBA game.

The NBA three pointer really weeds out true quality shooters and allows even more floor spacing.

Things that if FIBA implemented would allow our teams to dominate at an even more unprecedented level. Regardless of the whacky rule sets, superior team rapport and our last minute teams thrown together ... We still win.

With NBA rules? It would be embarrassing.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:57 PM   #649
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Semifinals vs Spain Friday at 2:30pm ET

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Originally Posted by tpols
that's how basketball should be played. There's no reason to handicap the defense just so the offense can put on more of a show.. that's entertainment. The olympics is trying to be about competition.
You can't sit there and say NBA isn't about competition. It's a more entertaining form of competition because it doesn't bail out poor individual talents. Thus, higher breed of competition.

The best players across the board in international play are all NBA guys. Do you think that's coincidental?

But using your own argument against you, the international rule set handicaps superior individual talents (NCAA) in order to facilitate the evening out of competitive balance for a collection of less talented players.

Which in of itself makes it a less competitive brand of basketball compared to the NBA.

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Old 08-20-2016, 12:12 AM   #650
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Semifinals vs Spain Friday at 2:30pm ET

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
It doesn't make sense to me that he's still such a horrendous scorer. He hasn't improved any facet of his scoring game since he came into the NBA five years ago. Last year, between 3-16 feet, he's a 23% shooter, he is at 38% from 16-feet to the three point line and <34% from three. Those numbers are almost exactly what they were in his rookie year, except a little worse from three.

He did have a better season finishing at the rim last year than he ever has, but I have to think that is because of the infusion of talent and teams not respecting his scoring ability at all. He jumped from 33% at the rim (putrid) to a respectable 51.7%.

But, otherwise? Just horrible.

Does he not work on it or is he just missing the shooting gene?

Multiple injuries have forced him to re-calibrate his base, Kobe's achilles injury was karma for bumping into Ricky and destroying his knee during his rookie season. I'll never forget watching that game, the cursed Muskies throwbacks, terrible!

The associated press released an article the other day about how losing his mother had a large impact on his play, when you are stuck on a losing team in a foreign country knowing you could have spent more time with her instead you can't expect the main focus to be on basketball.

Based on the circumstances I think it is mostly mental at this point, he hasn't been healthy for consecutive seasons, the average player gradually builds upon their mechanics over time in an upward arc, I think he can pull a Jason Kidd if his body holds up, and sadly that's a pretty big if right now, but I'm optimistic, he's still young enough make a substantial leap in that department.

Anyway, enough Ricky ranting for today, the point is that international basketball is watered down and uninteresting, and the rules do not allow for peak performances.

Legal goaltending? What is this? NBA Jam: scrub tournament edition?

Serbia is getting crushed by 30+
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:15 AM   #651
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Semifinals vs Spain Friday at 2:30pm ET

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
You can't sit there and say NBA isn't about competition. It's a more entertaining form of competition because it doesn't bail out poor individual talents. Thus, higher breed of competition.

The best players across the board in international play are all NBA guys. Do you think that's coincidental?

But using your own argument against you, the international rule set handicaps superior individual talents (NCAA) in order to facilitate the evening out of competitive balance for a collection of less talented players.

Which in of itself makes it a less competitive brand of basketball compared to the NBA.




Excellent post

NCAAB is unwatchable garbage too!

NBA rules should be standardized, no wonder so many college athletes struggle to adapt to the pro game
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:46 AM   #652
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Gold medal game vs Serbia, Sunday 2:45pm ET

I find FIBA style basketball a lot more interesting. I also don't think defensive 3 seconds should be added, i would like to see the NBA remove it but I enjoy defense and tactics.
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Old 08-20-2016, 01:35 AM   #653
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Semifinals vs Spain Friday at 2:30pm ET

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Originally Posted by CuterThanRubio
The Warriors were not soft, Curry is soft, but he's usually the smallest guy on the court, and a PG.

Draymond and Bogut are not soft, they are goons!

Klay is a tough defender too, you are fvcking stupid if you are truly trying to sell that narrative just because they were looking for shots that score more points and not bulldozing the lane with reckless abandon,

(LOW BBIQ EXPOSED IN CONSECUTIVE POSTS)

Palming is impossible to call accurately and traveling is very easy to miss when you are focused on more common violations, refs aren't robots.

The NBA is constantly working to improve their product, how can you fault them for that? The most progressive professional sports league in the world

Olympic basketball is nothing more than a sideshow, 40 minute games with shortened 3 point lines and random rules, lets get this gold and return to reality!
The NBA ruleset is soft. period. Not wasting my time with someone who doesn't have eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
I find FIBA style basketball a lot more interesting. I also don't think defensive 3 seconds should be added, i would like to see the NBA remove it but I enjoy defense and tactics.
Keep the NBA rules and just bring back handcheck. But again that would be a less marketable product. Instead bigs are getting taller but skinnier and being relegated as floor stretching spot up shooters to allow the PG to take advantage of a free drive to the basket.
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Old 08-20-2016, 10:09 AM   #654
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Semifinals vs Spain Friday at 2:30pm ET

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
You can't sit there and say NBA isn't about competition. It's a more entertaining form of competition because it doesn't bail out poor individual talents. Thus, higher breed of competition.


it's more entertaining form at least you admit that, but the second part is confusing.. it doesnt bail out poor individual talents? Of course it does, it allows guys with no midrange game or craftiness at all in the 3-16 ft range much better chance at having success because it's much easier to just dive at the rim. that's more entertaining, more dunks, layups, spectacular finishes, and more FTs because guys have to rotate and contest late.. individual talents can be completely bailed out in nba style game.



Look at other team sports where you're throwing a small projectile at a net .. soccer, hockey, water polo, lacrosse etc .. the goalie stays in front of the goal. Basketball is the only sport like this where the goalie has to run away from the front of the goal every 3 seconds for arbitrary reason.. and it doesnt make sense. It's handicapping the defense so that smaller players can get easier looks.. wonder why the big man is dying out in the NBA, the fact that the rules have made it that much easier for perimeter players is a big reason.

the NBA is a league chock full of raw athletic basketball players, some supremely skilled, but most aren't. Look no further than DeAndre Jordan and Demarcus Cousins and all the travels they're getting called for.. such unrefined simple games.. Cousins really surprised me.. the guy is legit slow as hell, and gets away with a ton of stuff in the NBA game that he cant get away with in international play.

on average the NBA mentality is a more dribble happy, iso centric, rim running approach.. you can see the euros are just on a different wave length with their mental approach to the game.. I cant even count how many times i've seen kyrie irving dribble the ball up the court, and take a shot without the offense having made even one pass. Same with Melo.. When guys like KD want to dribble at the top waiting for a pick, burning like 10 seconds to set that up.. euros are much more quick strike, fluidly moving together as a team. They arent as talented physically but they play better basketball.



But honestly, the US is way bigger than countries like Spain, serbia, france, etc. if we combined all the best players from all those teams and went population for population, the euros would have a much better shot at winning olympics.
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Old 08-20-2016, 10:24 AM   #655
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Semifinals vs Spain Friday at 2:30pm ET

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols

But honestly, the US is way bigger than countries like Spain, serbia, france, etc. if we combined all the best players from all those teams and went population for population, the euros would have a much better shot at winning olympics.
Imagine all-white team from USA, a nation of 320 million people and like 70% are white, so roughly 220 million white people and that team would get murdered by so many small European countries it's not even funny. Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Lithuania, Montenegro, even Czech Republic would all rape that team.

Only saving grace for USA sports are former slaves, without them USA would suck so hard in like every imaginable sport. That just tells how talented the average Americans are...
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Old 08-20-2016, 10:58 AM   #656
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Semifinals vs Spain Friday at 2:30pm ET

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Originally Posted by jamal99
Imagine all-white team from USA, a nation of 320 million people and like 70% are white, so roughly 220 million white people and that team would get murdered by so many small European countries it's not even funny. Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Lithuania, Montenegro, even Czech Republic would all rape that team.

Only saving grace for USA sports are former slaves, without them USA would suck so hard in like every imaginable sport. That just tells how talented the average Americans are...


Sad Serbian unwilling to accept the inevitable

The best white American players are still on par with, if not better than the rest of the world.

Parsons
Love
Korver
Hayward
Ryan Andersen
Redick
Plumlee bros
Throw in Jimmer at PG
McBuckets

That team would be in the gold medal game at least, Euro whites are playing against other Euro whites, at least the Americans are facing off against the best of the best of every ethnicity.

Euro players lack mental toughness regardless of their skill level.

Bogdan had a chance to tie the game against the USA the last time they played and he choked wide open, I've seen footage of him draining deep contested buzzer beaters against white euro trash, what happened? He froze up and couldn't get it done against the big boys, that's what.
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Old 08-20-2016, 11:13 AM   #657
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Semifinals vs Spain Friday at 2:30pm ET

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Originally Posted by FKAri
The NBA ruleset is soft. period. Not wasting my time with someone who doesn't have eyes.


Keep the NBA rules and just bring back handcheck. But again that would be a less marketable product. Instead bigs are getting taller but skinnier and being relegated as floor stretching spot up shooters to allow the PG to take advantage of a free drive to the basket.

You can still lightly handcheck in the NBA, grabbing jerseys and impeding progress with a forearm shove should not be allowed and thankfully it will never return.

Explain why international players are softer than their American counterparts since FIBA rules are so hardcore?

You can paint camp and goaltend, big deal, the NBA had paint camping for a very long time and scoring was through the roof during the majority of those years, how would that improve the game at all?

FIBA is so afraid of allowing a single player to become the focal point of a team which is a terrible concept since the NBA has shown us that the best possible way to construct one is to build around an elite talent and maximize their strengths while concealing weaknesses.

International teams scramble and struggle during clutch situations, who gets the ball when there are no standout players, fall in line and pass again until the player who ends up with the ball panics and launches a stupid shot, or you could give the ball to a guy like Kobe or Durant and walk away with the gold instead
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Old 08-20-2016, 11:26 AM   #658
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Olympic game vs France Sunday at 1:15pm ET

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Originally Posted by juju151111
why do you want the 3 second rule. So players have open lanes.
For the same reason it was instituted in the NBA ... so defenses can't camp out in the lane. It forces defenses to actually use some skill in stopping guys who are skilled at getting past their initial defender and to the basket.

You can still play zone, but it requires more focus, awareness and skill.

Watching Australia score 13 points in a half yesterday was not very interesting.
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Old 08-20-2016, 11:42 AM   #659
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Olympic game vs France Sunday at 1:15pm ET

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
For the same reason it was instituted in the NBA ... so defenses can't camp out in the lane. It forces defenses to actually use some skill in stopping guys who are skilled at getting past their initial defender and to the basket.

You can still play zone, but it requires more focus, awareness and skill.

Watching Australia score 13 points in a half yesterday was not very interesting.

the 3 second rule actually GAVE the NBA the ability to camp out in the lane for three seconds in order to stop isolation heavy offense that the illegal defense rule rewarded.

Quote:
Keep the NBA rules and just bring back handcheck. But again that would be a less marketable product. Instead bigs are getting taller but skinnier and being relegated as floor stretching spot up shooters to allow the PG to take advantage of a free drive to the basket.

I actually don't mind the second rule, but I've always like the tactics (the game would be more interesting with more playstyles and bball iq would be even more important) that free defense has. But, agreed on the handcheck. Right now the NBA is too soft, big men are hacked and you can't touch guards. But that is what the mainstream fan wants.

Last edited by IGOTGAME : 08-20-2016 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:23 PM   #660
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Default Re: 2016 Team USA Basketball discussion: Olympic game vs France Sunday at 1:15pm ET

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Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
the 3 second rule actually GAVE the NBA the ability to camp out in the lane for three seconds in order to stop isolation heavy offense that the illegal defense rule rewarded.

It was an evolution in the NBA different from that of FIBA. As you know, there was a time when the NBA didn't allow any zone defenses. If you were a defensive player found wandering around anywhere on the court without being within arm's length of an offensive player you're guarding, you were called for illegal defense.

The game evolved to allow zone defenses, which helped stop isolations, but the trade-off was the 3-second rule.

FIBA is coming from a place of being completely free to run any zone defense it wants without restriction. So, for them, it would be an anti-camping out in the lane move. They're coming from the opposite direction.

And, it will eventually happen, as FIBA always ends up following in the footsteps of the American game. That's the way it should be, since we invented the game and continue to refine it.

1954 - 24 second shot clock was introduced in NBA
1956 - 30 second shot clock was introduced in FIBA
2000 - 24 second shot clock was introduced in FIBA

1977 - 3-point line is established in the NBA
1984 - 3-point line is established in FIBA

1965 - Rectangular lane widened to 16-feet from 12-feet in NBA
2010 - Trapezoidal lane was replaced by 16-foot rectangular lane in FIBA

1997 - A semi-circle "no charge lane" was introduced around the basket in NBA
2010 - A semi-circle "no charge lane" was introduced around the basket in FIBA

Etc.

You can go through the rule-changes and see the trends.

They've extended their three-point line once recently to get closer to the NBA rule. Slowly but surely, they're evolving to the American game. The restricted area for defenses are just a matter of time. And, the more 14-point halves there are on the world's biggest stage, the faster it will happen.

Basketball rules have always been a delicate balance. The goal is to strike a balance between offense and defense so that neither side has a significant advantage over the other.
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