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Old 05-20-2007, 08:21 PM   #31
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

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Originally Posted by statman32
WTF are you talking about? Nash can't create his own shot and play in the lane?

Nash is actually vastly superior in that regard.
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:22 PM   #32
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

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Originally Posted by statman32
WTF are you talking about? Nash can't create his own shot and play in the lane?

Nash is smaller than Kidd therefore tougher.... and jailblazer i kno where Bethel Park is... what HS you go to or attend?
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:23 PM   #33
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

I go to South Park High School. Our soccer team has just won 2 straight state championships for AA and our football team won the championship last year for AA if that helps any. Where are you from?
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:25 PM   #34
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

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Originally Posted by STelfair31
Nash is smaller than Kidd therefore tougher?
WTF are you talking about? How does that answer my question? Stop typing **** if you don't even know what you are talking about.
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:57 PM   #35
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

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Kidd is the 3rd best pg ever arguably, This isn't surprising. He's also the best pg in the league today

Magic Johnson
Oscar
Isiah Thomas
John Stockton

No, he's not the 3rd best...some could argue that Payton is a better PG, and some other old school guys. He definitely is above Nash though, career wise.
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Old 05-21-2007, 03:03 PM   #36
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

It's called respect. T-mac said Dirk is a playmaker, but many people disagree. It's just common courtesy to complement fellow NBA players.
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Old 05-21-2007, 03:06 PM   #37
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

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Originally Posted by West-Side
Magic Johnson
Oscar
Isiah Thomas
John Stockton

No, he's not the 3rd best...some could argue that Payton is a better PG, and some other old school guys. He definitely is above Nash though, career wise.
If you ignore longevity Kidd has an argument for being ahead of Stockton. Stockton's the better shooter by a wide margin but Kidd grabs far more boards and might be a better defender.
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Old 05-21-2007, 03:17 PM   #38
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

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Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
If you ignore longevity Kidd has an argument for being ahead of Stockton. Stockton's the better shooter by a wide margin but Kidd grabs far more boards and might be a better defender.

Stockton has the most steals in NBA History. But I guess that's not being a good defender. If you mean on-ball, defending, then specify. But overall, Stockton, all-time leader in steals, is a better overall defender. Did more for his team on the defensive side of the ball than Kidd did/does.

And of course Kidd grabs far more boards, Stockton DID have Malone on his team. Kidd, while obviously a far superior rebounding guard, has really never had big dudes consistently helping him gather in rebounds for him.

But as for the argument that Kidd > Stockton...well, let's just say I think it's an insult to Stockton that the argument is even brought up in some peoples' minds.
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Old 05-21-2007, 03:25 PM   #39
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

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He is the reason they are one of the best defenses in the league

The reason? Yeah okay buddy. Any perimeter player, especially in todays NBA is in no way "the reason" a team is a top defensive team. Just no. He's not Duncan. He's not Zo. He's doesn't possess the presence to be labled the reason why his team is great defensivly. Doesn't have great length on a double team (AK47) he isn't blocking shots, isn't changing shots... hardly stays in front of his man nowadays.


Kidd' rebounds are really overrateed when people come in saying "yo! look he grabs 8, 9 boards a game! better than Stockton, better than Payton!" as if that's the deciding factor.

Well it's bound to happen when you have a front court that is pure v*gina when it comes to rebounding the basketball. So guess what? The rebounding scheme it built around him to pick up rebounds while the big men box out their guy.

I've always compared it to a decent scorer (Manu, for example) on a team that needs scoring. Manu becomes a 22-24 ppg scorer.
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Old 05-21-2007, 03:42 PM   #40
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

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Originally Posted by Carbine
The reason? Yeah okay buddy. Any perimeter player, especially in todays NBA is in no way "the reason" a team is a top defensive team. Just no. He's not Duncan. He's not Zo. He's doesn't possess the presence to be labled the reason why his team is great defensivly. Doesn't have great length on a double team (AK47) he isn't blocking shots, isn't changing shots... hardly stays in front of his man nowadays.


Kidd' rebounds are really overrateed when people come in saying "yo! look he grabs 8, 9 boards a game! better than Stockton, better than Payton!" as if that's the deciding factor.

Well it's bound to happen when you have a front court that is pure v*gina when it comes to rebounding the basketball. So guess what? The rebounding scheme it built around him to pick up rebounds while the big men box out their guy.

I've always compared it to a decent scorer (Manu, for example) on a team that needs scoring. Manu becomes a 22-24 ppg scorer.


First off he is the reason they're a good defense he LEADS their defense. He often guards the best player or if not, he's roaming the floor making plays and causing havoc on the defensive end. He will come over in the lane and strip balls, help trap players, get steals and block some shots from behind; much like Kobe can do if he wanted to be the defensive leader Kidd is for 48minutes. He even guarded Lebron for the most part in their series when Bron was struggling. Plus if they see their leader hustling and working his ass off on that end others will follow. But again if its not him being the reason what is? Collins? He's the only other player with a defensive mindset and he's only pretty good at it, basically a good body to body defender in the post, not a good help defender or rebounder.


As for his rebounds, yeah he's getting a career high because they don't have a legit big to get them. However, he's still getting them and impressively. The Suns aren't a great rebounding team, yet Nash isn't getting 5-8. And regardless of this season, Kidd has been a walking triple double his entire career. Its not like he's just chosen this year to be a good rebounder. He's gotten 7 a game in previous years too. Yeah his frontline sucks now, but he got 7 some years in Dallas, 7 some years in Phx too. That argument is weak.




Quote:
Magic Johnson
Oscar
Isiah Thomas
John Stockton

No, he's not the 3rd best...some could argue that Payton is a better PG, and some other old school guys. He definitely is above Nash though, career wise.


I don't believe Oscar is a pg, more a combo sg. But if you want him to be a pg, then he's better (but he's not).

Magic yep, Zeke yep.

Stockton is not better than Kidd. Im not saying its blatantly obvious, but I think Kidd would've benefitted a lot too if he played his entire career next to Malone and other nice talent. Again I don't just think Stockton is great due to Malone, but it certainly helped, but I think Kidd and Malone would've been better. Kidd defends atleast as well as Stockton, passes probablya bit better, and again the rebounds. Stockton's advantage is his jumper.
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Old 05-21-2007, 03:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

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Originally Posted by bdreason
2008-2009 season.

So, one more season in NJ.


ground breaking keeps getting derailed by environmentalists and tree huggers and people who don't want their apartments demolished because of "memories" even though Ratner has prmosied them brand spanking new high tech apartments.


look for a 09-10 move
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Old 05-21-2007, 04:03 PM   #42
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

Quote:
Carbine
Well it's bound to happen when you have a front court that is pure v*gina when it comes to rebounding the basketball. So guess what? The rebounding scheme it built around him to pick up rebounds while the big men box out their guy.


This argument cracks me up since it has such little merit.


Look at Kidd's rebounding numbers throughout his entire career while in Dallas, Pheonix and NJ when they had Martin, Mutumbo and others to board. He has always been a top notch rebounder for every team no matter the front-court.

Here, I made it even easier for you:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_...eer_stats.html

BTW, since Kidd had no real mentor when he entered the league, you know who he used to watch tape of: John Stockton.

Last edited by ChuckOakley : 05-21-2007 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 05-21-2007, 04:09 PM   #43
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

Quote:
Originally Posted by EuJazz
Stockton has the most steals in NBA History. But I guess that's not being a good defender. If you mean on-ball, defending, then specify. But overall, Stockton, all-time leader in steals, is a better overall defender. Did more for his team on the defensive side of the ball than Kidd did/does.

And of course Kidd grabs far more boards, Stockton DID have Malone on his team. Kidd, while obviously a far superior rebounding guard, has really never had big dudes consistently helping him gather in rebounds for him.

But as for the argument that Kidd > Stockton...well, let's just say I think it's an insult to Stockton that the argument is even brought up in some peoples' minds.


thing is, if you watch Net games long enough, you'll see the whole team gang rebounds but if Kidd is already in the air after the ball ,his teammates will just let him grab it...


so in essence, they let him stat pad
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Old 05-21-2007, 04:43 PM   #44
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

VC you think they actually care who has the best #'s? the Nets prob just didn't want to fight over the ball...and you said watch the move to Brooklyn
in 09-10... so does Jay-z still partly own them... i wonder if Nelly will move the Bobcats to the Lou??
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Old 05-21-2007, 05:33 PM   #45
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Default Re: "Kidd The Best Point Guard I've Seen"- Lebron James

The best front line they had in Dallas was Lorenzo Williams & Popeye Jones. Best in PHX was Dice & Cliff Robinson his first year. After that? Tom Googs & Clifford, with Marion in Kidd' last year with PHX averaging 10 boards a game. Next highest after Kidd that year? Googs with 4.5

New Jersey. First year KVH was their best rebounder at 7.5 a game. Second year? Martin & Mutombo with 8.6 & 6.4

Year after that was Martin at under 10 boards a game... second was Kidd... the next highest? Jefferson at 5.7

Kidd led the team in rebounding after that because like I said... the team has v*ginas for big men.

So now here it is... everything out in the open & YOU want to tell ME that I"M wrong? Get real. I don't go into an argument half-blind. I know what I'm getting myself into before it ever happens.

Bottom line is Kidd has for the most part played with very average rebounding big men, and in most cases very poor rebounding big men. The only ones that were decent was Martin (who really isn't that good of a rebounder in the first place, averaging 7.4 boards a game for his career) and Dice who averaged 9 rebounds a game in his first six seasons (for those of you who don't know, those years he was at physical peak, I excluded after he got injured to show no bias)

Chuck & Y2, check yourselves.
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