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Old 05-23-2007, 06:34 PM   #46
LakerWarrior12
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Default Re: I want LO on this team

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWay
^ That's exactly right MyLakers. Odom adds no balance to this team but being who he is.
And for the question who I'd rather keep, the answer is Bynum. I'd rather trade Odom than Bynum but I repeat, I think I could bare with Odom if we were to get Artest and a few more athletic players with some shooting, IQ and defense.
Odom is better suited

First of all Artest would not fit in the Laker's offense. He would be probably goofing off and just looking for trouble. Second its bad enough that he is already a nutcase and God knows what will happen next to him.

Artest has mental problems and Artest would be the last thing the Lakers would go after him.
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:24 PM   #47
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Default Re: I want LO on this team

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakerWarrior12
First of all Artest would not fit in the Laker's offense. He would be probably goofing off and just looking for trouble. Second its bad enough that he is already a nutcase and God knows what will happen next to him.

Artest has mental problems and Artest would be the last thing the Lakers would go after him.

once again, bold statements like this are what the media want you to portray artest as.

He doesn't "look" for anything besides a place where he can fit in. Instead of just criticizing this proven star that only makes 7 mill....why can't you look at stories of people who made turnarounds in their career?

Rodman was controlled when Phil Jackson had coached him...Stephen Jackson put his off the court issues aside when he was traded to GS and fit just fine...And then Rasheed wallace became loved by so many people when LB went to the pistons. Even after LB was fired, Rasheed is a permanently changed man.

Why can't people think the same of artest? he played for a coach on sacramento that had off-court issues as well with DUI charges....Does that set a good example for artest?
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:39 PM   #48
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Default Re: I want LO on this team

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
once again, bold statements like this are what the media want you to portray artest as.

He doesn't "look" for anything besides a place where he can fit in. Instead of just criticizing this proven star that only makes 7 mill....why can't you look at stories of people who made turnarounds in their career?

Rodman was controlled when Phil Jackson had coached him...Stephen Jackson put his off the court issues aside when he was traded to GS and fit just fine...And then Rasheed wallace became loved by so many people when LB went to the pistons. Even after LB was fired, Rasheed is a permanently changed man.

Why can't people think the same of artest? he played for a coach on sacramento that had off-court issues as well with DUI charges....Does that set a good example for artest?


I just started a new thread to address this notion that Phil can handle Artest. In short: He can't. Artest is a VERY different kind of player than Rodman. Artest needs several years of professional theropy, not just a really good coach. Additionally, Phil has NEVER even tried to handle a thug-like player in his entire coaching career (Charles Oakley was tough, but not a thug). Please feel free to disagree. But it might be best to finish this discussion on the other thread.
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Old 05-23-2007, 08:33 PM   #49
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Default Re: I want LO on this team

Either way,

My bottom line is Kobe, LO, and Artest are WCF contenders even with issues.
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Old 05-24-2007, 12:31 AM   #50
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Default Re: I want LO on this team

^^ i agree
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Old 05-24-2007, 02:35 AM   #51
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Default Re: I want LO on this team

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ(Mean John)
^^ i agree

Thanks for being so NICE and agreeing mister meany man john john
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Old 05-26-2007, 04:52 PM   #52
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Default Re: I want LO on this team

Quote:
LO is exactly the kind of guy you want on your team. His only major weakness is that he is not a go-to scorer. He won't take over games (of course, not many players do). Lakers don't need a #2 player. They need a #2 SCORER. If they can obtain such a player without trading LO, then great. If not, then perhaps LO has to go.
Didn't read this entire thread, but to me, this is the right answer. The whole notion of '2nd option' and '3rd option' is overused. Like OneWay said, you can't have redundancy. Keeping that in mind though, it's also just fine to have your 2nd best player not your 2nd option.

Picture this team with a PG who could consistently dribble penetrate, or a center who could score on the block. We don't need a Chris Paul or a Jermaine O'Neal, just a Terry/Barbosa or an Ilgauskus/Bogut. Someone who can have isolations run for them, and you know that they can come away with a good shot for themselves, or a good shot for a teammate.

And are any of those players better than Odom? When ranking players, would you have any of them higher? No, of course not. Just because Lamar's not a 2nd option scorer, doesn't mean he's not a 2nd option everything else. Like sizzle said, he does all the little things that makes him invaluable. He's not exactly a glueguy. Not in a Battier sense. Battier makes things fit, but he's not the talent that Lamar is.

Lakers need a scorer to take pressure off of Kobe. That can be had for the assets we have to give away. Whoever we can get doesn't have to be 'better' than Lamar, or more of a '2nd option', they just have to be able to score well. Lamar can make up for all the smaller things that he does so well, and the scorer can make up for Lamar's lack of aggressiveness when asked to put points on the board.

That's only on the offensive side of the ball mind you. Hopefully, Bynum can get smarter on defense and actually know where to position himself and how to man up in the post. Needs to be more active too. He's certainly got the shotblocking/altering raw skill, just needs to refine it with smarts.

With all that said, give me KG/Jermaine/Gasol for Lamar+ any day. They take care of the defensive side of the ball with their weakside help, and are a great option downlow on offense.

Lakers would love to have one of those guys. They'd give up a good deal to make it happen, Lamar included. However, contrary to what OneWay thinks, we don't actually NEED to get one of them to contend. We just need a few smaller pieces, and perhaps a year of improvement from the youngins.

Of course, time is running out on Kobe's prime, so I can understand the sense of urgency some fans may have when it comes to getting Kobe help. I just don't feel that way just yet though.
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Old 05-26-2007, 06:25 PM   #53
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Default Re: I want LO on this team

Lamar Odom gets way too much negative attention. Lamar Odom is a better fit for the Lakers than the post all-star break edition of Kobe Bryant.

The Lakers played their best ball in the beginning of the year. The biggest difference between the first half Lakers and the second half Lakers was Odom's health and Kobe's play. The healthy Lamar Odom played well when Kobe was content to play within the system (pass the ball, cut, play defense, not jacking up 35 shots a game).

Lamar Odom isn't the problem in L.A. Kobe Bryant's wavering trust in his teammates is. The game is equal parts, offense and defense. The game is more passing than shooting. Kobe focused all his attention on getting his own shots and slacking off on defense. He can't do this if he wants the Lakers to win. If the Lakers gut the team to bring in a second superstar, it's Kobe Bryant that will have to change his approach to the game. If the Lakers don't gut the team to get another superstar, Kobe Bryant will have to adjust his approach to the game.

Odom is the right piece to the Lakers puzzle. Kobe Bryant just has to put more trust in him and when he does, Odom has to seize it like he did at the start of last season.

The biggest holes on this team is Bynum and Farmar's youth. Inexperience at the point and center position kills you late in the season and in the playoffs. Other than Chauncey Billups, there are no clear solution at the point in free agency and getting a superstar big man is very pricey and may not be worth it in the end.
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Old 05-26-2007, 07:45 PM   #54
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Default Re: I want LO on this team

Quote:
Originally Posted by traditionone
Lamar Odom gets way too much negative attention. Lamar Odom is a better fit for the Lakers than the post all-star break edition of Kobe Bryant.

The Lakers played their best ball in the beginning of the year. The biggest difference between the first half Lakers and the second half Lakers was Odom's health and Kobe's play. The healthy Lamar Odom played well when Kobe was content to play within the system (pass the ball, cut, play defense, not jacking up 35 shots a game).

Lamar Odom isn't the problem in L.A. Kobe Bryant's wavering trust in his teammates is. The game is equal parts, offense and defense. The game is more passing than shooting. Kobe focused all his attention on getting his own shots and slacking off on defense. He can't do this if he wants the Lakers to win. If the Lakers gut the team to bring in a second superstar, it's Kobe Bryant that will have to change his approach to the game. If the Lakers don't gut the team to get another superstar, Kobe Bryant will have to adjust his approach to the game.

Odom is the right piece to the Lakers puzzle. Kobe Bryant just has to put more trust in him and when he does, Odom has to seize it like he did at the start of last season.

The biggest holes on this team is Bynum and Farmar's youth. Inexperience at the point and center position kills you late in the season and in the playoffs. Other than Chauncey Billups, there are no clear solution at the point in free agency and getting a superstar big man is very pricey and may not be worth it in the end.

excellent post. but I would say that the reason Kobe went away from "team play", if you can call it that, is because of the injuries. he HAD to carry the scoring load.
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