Which PF was the best at their peak?

[AussieSteve]

We all know that Tim Duncan is the GOAT power forward, but I wanted a way to quantify who was the best at their peak. That is, which PF had the single best 82 consecutive game stretch.

Purely in terms of adding up basic counting stats, the best 82 game stretch for the top 5 PFs are

1. Garnett - 24.6ppg, 14.1rpg, 5.7apg, 1.3spg, 2.1bpg (14/2/03 -> 10/2/04)
2. Malone - 31.5ppg, 11.0rpg, 2.9apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg (8/4/89 -> 12/4/90)
3. Barkley - 23.3ppg, 15.0rpg, 5.1apg, 1.9spg, 1.6bpg (21/3/86 -> 7/11/87)
4. Duncan - 25.5ppg, 12.7rpg, 3.7apg, 0.7spg, 2.5bpg (30/10/01 -> 17/4/02)
5. Nowitzki - 26.2ppg, 9.9rpg, 3.0apg, 1.3spg, 1.6bpg (22/3/04 -> 1/4/05)

If we get a little more advanced... In terms of average game score, which basically adds up counting stats but also factors in shooting efficiency and turnovers, their best 82 game stretch was

1. Barkley - 25.43 (28.3ppg, 11.4rpg, 3.9apg, 1.8spg, 0.6bpg, 3.0tov, .660 TS%) (17/1/90 -> 1/2/91)
2. Malone - 24.47 (31.5ppg, 11.0rpg, 2.9apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg, 3.7tov, .632 TS%) (8/4/89 -> 12/4/90)
3. Garnett - 22.88 (24.4ppg, 14.0rpg, 5.4apg, 1.7spg, 2.0bpg, 2.8tov, .554 TS%) (7/12/03 -> 10/12/04)
4. Nowitzki - 21.72 (26.8ppg, 9.7rpg, 3.4apg, 0.8spg, 0.9bpg, 2.0tov, .609 TS%) (23/2/06 -> 24/2/07)
5. Duncan - 21.63 (25.5ppg, 12.7rpg, 3.7apg, 0.7spg, 2.5bpg, 3.2tov, .576 TS%) (30/10/01 -> 17/4/02)

I like game score, but we need to factor in winning. Stats are meaningless if they are not translating to wins. So I came up with the formula GmSc*0.5*(1+win%). Which means that a loss is only worth half of a win. If a player has an average GmSc of 10.0, and his team won 82 games, his weighted GmSc will remain at 10.0. If he had 41 wins, it would be 7.5. If he had 0 wins, it would be 5.0. Using this formula the highest 82 game peak by each of these PFs was

1. Barkley - 21.51 (57 wins, 28.0ppg, 11.3rpg, 4.0apg, 1.8spg, 0.6bpg, 3.1tov .665 TS%) (8/1/90 -> 5/1/91)
2. Malone - 20.74 (57 wins, 31.5ppg, 11.0rpg, 2.9apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg, 3.7tov, .632 TS%) (8/4/89 -> 12/4/90)
3. Garnett - 19.81 (60 wins, 24.4ppg, 14.0rpg, 5.4apg, 1.7spg, 2.0bpg, 2.8tov, .554 TS%) (7/12/03 -> 10/12/04)
4. Nowitzki - 19.29 (65 wins, 26.4ppg, 9.7rpg, 3.4apg, 0.8spg, 0.9bpg, 2.0tov, .607 TS%) (7/3/06 -> 11/3/07)
5. Duncan - 18.55 (64 wins, 23.6ppg, 13.2rpg, 3.7apg, 0.7spg, 2.9bpg, 3.0tov .557 TS%) (21/12/02 -> 26/12/03)

So the stats say that, in terms of regular season performance, Barkley appears to have had the highest peak. And when considering both individual output and team results, Barkley in 1990 was the best that a PF has been.

I think I will do this for the playoffs also.

Do people think that this is a reliable way to compare peaks?

[Round Mound]

We all know that Tim Duncan is the GOAT power forward, but I wanted a way to quantify who was the best at their peak. That is, which PF had the single best 82 consecutive game stretch.

Purely in terms of adding up basic counting stats, the best 82 game stretch for the top 5 PFs are

1. Garnett - 24.6ppg, 14.1rpg, 5.7apg, 1.3spg, 2.1bpg (14/2/03 -> 10/2/04)
2. Malone - 31.5ppg, 11.0rpg, 2.9apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg (8/4/89 -> 12/4/90)
3. Barkley - 23.3ppg, 15.0rpg, 5.1apg, 1.9spg, 1.6bpg (21/3/86 -> 7/11/87)
4. Duncan - 25.5ppg, 12.7rpg, 3.7apg, 0.7spg, 2.5bpg (30/10/01 -> 17/4/02)
5. Nowitzki - 26.2ppg, 9.9rpg, 3.0apg, 1.3spg, 1.6bpg (22/3/04 -> 1/4/05)

If we get a little more advanced... In terms of average game score, which basically adds up counting stats but also factors in shooting efficiency and turnovers, their best 82 game stretch was

1. Barkley - 25.43 (28.3ppg, 11.4rpg, 3.9apg, 1.8spg, 0.6bpg, 3.0tov, .660 TS%) (17/1/90 -> 1/2/91)
2. Malone - 24.47 (31.5ppg, 11.0rpg, 2.9apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg, 3.7tov, .632 TS%) (8/4/89 -> 12/4/90)
3. Garnett - 22.88 (24.4ppg, 14.0rpg, 5.4apg, 1.7spg, 2.0bpg, 2.8tov, .554 TS%) (7/12/03 -> 10/12/04)
4. Nowitzki - 21.72 (26.8ppg, 9.7rpg, 3.4apg, 0.8spg, 0.9bpg, 2.0tov, .609 TS%) (23/2/06 -> 24/2/07)
5. Duncan - 21.63 (25.5ppg, 12.7rpg, 3.7apg, 0.7spg, 2.5bpg, 3.2tov, .576 TS%) (30/10/01 -> 17/4/02)

I like game score, but we need to factor in winning. Stats are meaningless if they are not translating to wins. So I came up with the formula GmSc*0.5*(1+win%). Which means that a loss is only worth half of a win. If a player has an average GmSc of 10.0, and his team won 82 games, his weighted GmSc will remain at 10.0. If he had 41 wins, it would be 7.5. If he had 0 wins, it would be 5.0. Using this formula the highest 82 game peak by each of these PFs was

1. Barkley - 21.51 (57 wins, 28.0ppg, 11.3rpg, 4.0apg, 1.8spg, 0.6bpg, 3.1tov .665 TS%) (8/1/90 -> 5/1/91)
2. Malone - 20.74 (57 wins, 31.5ppg, 11.0rpg, 2.9apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg, 3.7tov, .632 TS%) (8/4/89 -> 12/4/90)
3. Garnett - 19.81 (60 wins, 24.4ppg, 14.0rpg, 5.4apg, 1.7spg, 2.0bpg, 2.8tov, .554 TS%) (7/12/03 -> 10/12/04)
4. Nowitzki - 19.29 (65 wins, 26.4ppg, 9.7rpg, 3.4apg, 0.8spg, 0.9bpg, 2.0tov, .607 TS%) (7/3/06 -> 11/3/07)
5. Duncan - 18.55 (64 wins, 23.6ppg, 13.2rpg, 3.7apg, 0.7spg, 2.9bpg, 3.0tov .557 TS%) (21/12/02 -> 26/12/03)

So the stats say that, in terms of regular season performance, Barkley appears to have had the highest peak. And when considering both individual output and team results, Barkley in 1990 was the best that a PF has been.

I think I will do this for the playoffs also.

Do people think that this is a reliable way to compare peaks?

[SpaceJam]

I'm intrigued in seeing more

[NBAGOAT]

well done. I would only say the problem with using a mostly box score approach is it's going undersell defense and that's really where kg and duncan shine. Including wins does help that some but not enough for a lot of people. It'll underrate Dirk a little too since his scoring numbers have always undersold how good of an offensive anchor he is. Barkley's peak is still fantastic however and underrated now.

[DaHeezy]

In the early 90's I thought Barkley was the best player in the game, period. Too bad management ****ed his Sixers up. Losing Dawkins and trading Gminski for Armonk Gilliam killed them.

[Round Mound]

In the early 90's I thought Barkley was the best player in the game, period. Too bad management ****ed his Sixers up. Losing Dawkins and reading Gminski for Armonk Gilliam killed them.

And was robbed from the 1990 MVP too.

[aj1987]

1) Barkley
2) KG
3) Duncan
4) Malone
5) Dirk

KG has Barkley beat defensively, but Chuck in the playoffs was just a monster.

You actually think that Barkley and KG were better than Duncan at their peaks?

[k0kakw0rld]

Barkley/Duncan
Duncan/Barkley
Malone
KG
Dirk

[Smoke117]

There will never be a season that matches Garnett's all-around brilliance in 2004 again. That is the most complete season by anyone, EVER.

[k0kakw0rld]

There will never be a season that matches Garnett's all-around brilliance in 2004 again. That is the most complete season by anyone, EVER.

Stop smoking that 117 bruh

[warriorfan]

KG/DUNCAN
DIRK/MALONE/BARKLEY

.

[Atlantis]

In my opinion, what separates great from the best is superlative performance in the postseason. Regular season dominance is necessary but not sufficient for GOAT status, and I think Dirk's 2011 performance puts him on top. To me, a single world-class performance is more important than sustained regular season dominance, or even several very good, but not superlative postseasons. I just never feel like KG, or even Duncan ever dominated in the way that Dirk did in 2011. I wasn't around to watch Barkley play, so I don't really have anything to say about him.

[fourkicks44]

We all know that Tim Duncan is the GOAT power forward, but I wanted a way to quantify who was the best at their peak. That is, which PF had the single best 82 consecutive game stretch.

Purely in terms of adding up basic counting stats, the best 82 game stretch for the top 5 PFs are

1. Garnett - 24.6ppg, 14.1rpg, 5.7apg, 1.3spg, 2.1bpg (14/2/03 -> 10/2/04)
2. Malone - 31.5ppg, 11.0rpg, 2.9apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg (8/4/89 -> 12/4/90)
3. Barkley - 23.3ppg, 15.0rpg, 5.1apg, 1.9spg, 1.6bpg (21/3/86 -> 7/11/87)
4. Duncan - 25.5ppg, 12.7rpg, 3.7apg, 0.7spg, 2.5bpg (30/10/01 -> 17/4/02)
5. Nowitzki - 26.2ppg, 9.9rpg, 3.0apg, 1.3spg, 1.6bpg (22/3/04 -> 1/4/05)

If we get a little more advanced... In terms of average game score, which basically adds up counting stats but also factors in shooting efficiency and turnovers, their best 82 game stretch was

1. Barkley - 25.43 (28.3ppg, 11.4rpg, 3.9apg, 1.8spg, 0.6bpg, 3.0tov, .660 TS%) (17/1/90 -> 1/2/91)
2. Malone - 24.47 (31.5ppg, 11.0rpg, 2.9apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg, 3.7tov, .632 TS%) (8/4/89 -> 12/4/90)
3. Garnett - 22.88 (24.4ppg, 14.0rpg, 5.4apg, 1.7spg, 2.0bpg, 2.8tov, .554 TS%) (7/12/03 -> 10/12/04)
4. Nowitzki - 21.72 (26.8ppg, 9.7rpg, 3.4apg, 0.8spg, 0.9bpg, 2.0tov, .609 TS%) (23/2/06 -> 24/2/07)
5. Duncan - 21.63 (25.5ppg, 12.7rpg, 3.7apg, 0.7spg, 2.5bpg, 3.2tov, .576 TS%) (30/10/01 -> 17/4/02)

I like game score, but we need to factor in winning. Stats are meaningless if they are not translating to wins. So I came up with the formula GmSc*0.5*(1+win%). Which means that a loss is only worth half of a win. If a player has an average GmSc of 10.0, and his team won 82 games, his weighted GmSc will remain at 10.0. If he had 41 wins, it would be 7.5. If he had 0 wins, it would be 5.0. Using this formula the highest 82 game peak by each of these PFs was

1. Barkley - 21.51 (57 wins, 28.0ppg, 11.3rpg, 4.0apg, 1.8spg, 0.6bpg, 3.1tov .665 TS%) (8/1/90 -> 5/1/91)
2. Malone - 20.74 (57 wins, 31.5ppg, 11.0rpg, 2.9apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg, 3.7tov, .632 TS%) (8/4/89 -> 12/4/90)
3. Garnett - 19.81 (60 wins, 24.4ppg, 14.0rpg, 5.4apg, 1.7spg, 2.0bpg, 2.8tov, .554 TS%) (7/12/03 -> 10/12/04)
4. Nowitzki - 19.29 (65 wins, 26.4ppg, 9.7rpg, 3.4apg, 0.8spg, 0.9bpg, 2.0tov, .607 TS%) (7/3/06 -> 11/3/07)
5. Duncan - 18.55 (64 wins, 23.6ppg, 13.2rpg, 3.7apg, 0.7spg, 2.9bpg, 3.0tov .557 TS%) (21/12/02 -> 26/12/03)

So the stats say that, in terms of regular season performance, Barkley appears to have had the highest peak. And when considering both individual output and team results, Barkley in 1990 was the best that a PF has been.

I think I will do this for the playoffs also.

Do people think that this is a reliable way to compare peaks?

You are forgetting the GOAT power forward in your analysis:

[AussieSteve]

well done. I would only say the problem with using a mostly box score approach is it's going undersell defense and that's really where kg and duncan shine. Including wins does help that some but not enough for a lot of people. It'll underrate Dirk a little too since his scoring numbers have always undersold how good of an offensive anchor he is. Barkley's peak is still fantastic however and underrated now.

I agree... I thought about using advanced stats like ORtg and DRtg instead of box stats, but these are pretty unreliable also. I concede that Duncan is underrated here.

My gut tells me that if I do the same analysis for peak playoff performance, Duncan will come in much higher.

[warriorfan]

Im no duncan fan but you need to respect

He was a monster in his hayday

Two way dominance, something that Dirk/Barkley/Malone were missing

Dirk is an underated defender though

Barkley was such an ass defender, he was arguably better offensively than dirk but just so shitty defensively...seriously the worst....peep any full game of barkley and try to refute this shit....you cannot...was the absolute worst defender of all time at the power forward position