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Old 05-27-2007, 11:32 AM   #1
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Default Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

30k-40k on dog fighting? What a doucebag, I hope he gets put in jail and thrown out of the NFL.



Source: Vick 'one of the heavyweights' in dogfighting

By Kelly Naqi
Special to ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: May 27, 2007, 10:48 AM ET

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He arrived at the hotel room, where our cameras were set up, in a T-shirt and jeans. "I'm nervous," he said, surveying our lights and camera equipment. "I've never done anything like this before."

Our confidential source says he's been involved in dog fighting for over 30 years. He's trained and fought -- by his estimation -- around 2,000 pit bulls and was poised to tell "Outside the Lines" about the time in 2000 when his dog squared off against a dog owned by someone he referred to as one of the "heavyweights" of the dog fighting world: Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick.

"He's a pit bull fighter," the source says of Vick. "He's one of the ones that they call 'the big boys:' that's who bets a large dollar. And they have the money to bet large money. As I'm talking about large money -- $30,000 to $40,000 -- even higher. He's one of the heavyweights."

On April 25, authorities raided a house in Surry County, Va., owned by Vick and reportedly found -- among other things -- 66 dogs (most of which were pit bulls), a dog-fighting pit, blood stained carpets and equipment commonly associated with dog fighting. Vick was not at the scene and denied knowledge of dog fighting at the property. To this point, no charges have been filed against him. But questions about Vick and his possible connection to dog fighting linger.

This source -- who required anonymity as a condition of our interview -- has helped law enforcement by supplying information on dog fights that has led to dozens of felony arrests.

"I've fought dogs, I pitted them, I bred them and I've done everything with them," says the source of his three decades in dog fighting. He then went on to describe the scene from that night seven years ago, as he took his 42-pound dog into the pit (the area where dogs fight) to face off against Vick's dog. He says Vick did not get into the pit, but had a member of his entourage handle his dog, while Vick placed bets with the 20 or so people in attendance.

Outside The Lines

Michael Vick's role in dogfighting's hidden society and a look at why some athletes participate in the brutal and illegal activity are examined Monday at 3:30 a.m. ET on OTL.

"Then he started, you know, waving money," the source says. "He was betting with everybody ... He said he got $5,000. He said he's betting on his animal."

While the source says he doesn't know how much Vick bet that night, he does recall the matches' outcome: Vicks' dog lost. He says Vick is known in the dog fighting community as "the man that comes with all the money" and his reputation is "[that] he brings a good dog and he's going to bet and he's going bring a nice sum of cash."

ESPN contacted Vick's agent, Joel Segal, who did not respond to the source's allegations.

In the U.S., dog fighting is considered a felony in every state except Wyoming and Idaho. Despite that fact, according to the Humane Society, it's estimated that somewhere between 20,000 to 40,000 people in this country take part in this multi-billion dollar industry.

"I believe that dog fighting is on the upswing," says John Goodwin, the deputy manager of the Animal Cruelty Campaign for the Humane Society. "And I believe that certain elements of the pop culture have glamorized dog fighting and glamorized big, tough pit bulls."

American pit bull terriers account for 99 percent of the species involved in dog fighting, and a pit bull puppy can cost as much as $5000. An average dog fight carries a $10,000 purse.

So why would a professional athlete risk his reputation -- and a lifetime of financial security -- to do this? "For the thrill of it," says a member of the Professional Football Hall of Fame, who asked not to be identified. "It's like gambling, no different than when Michael Jordan drops $100,000 on a hole of golf."

There's no official data on just how many professional athletes may be associated with dog fighting today. Before the current investigation against Vick, in the last couple of years, only two professional athletes stand out as having been publicly linked to allegations of dog fighting: former NBA forward Qyntel Woods (who faced possible charges of dog fighting before pleading guilty to animal abuse in 2005) and former NFL running back LeShon Johnson, who pled guilty to three charges related to dog fighting, also, in 2005. Johnson is currently serving a five year deferred sentence. But those players only scratch the surface of what Goodwin calls a 'subculture' of dog fighting among professional athletes.

Everybody in the dog world is worried about Michael Vick talking. Michael Vick is making large money, he's making millions, OK? And if he has to tell on some people [to avoid prison time], I think he would tell I don't put nothing past him.

Confidential source

"You know, it's very interesting that we have got a whole roster of names of professional athletes that we know are involved in dog fighting," Goodwin says. "Surely, not every single one has come to light; I bet not even 10 percent have come to light."

If that's true, one reason may have to do with the "Code of Silence" among dog fighters. The source says many matches take place on rural farms, with 'lookouts' stationed in the woods and down surrounding roads, up to eight miles away. He adds that sometimes, local sheriffs are paid off to look the other way -- that is, when they're not participating in the dog fights themselves. But with up to two hundred people in attendance at any given match, how is it possible that a high-profile athlete can attend dog fights and never have word get out to the general public?

"Dog fighting is a very private thing," answers the source, who says that Vick was still involved in dog fighting as recently as last year. "It's all Pit Bull Men. It's close knit: you got your little boys, then you got your heavyweight boys. It's a completely different class ... And now [that] it's all over the media, and you have to keep it more private."

The source says he consented to our interview to change people's perceptions about dog fighting, because they have "the wrong idea" about it and should see "just one" match for themselves before judging it. "They'll let this other thing go -- what is it called? UFC [Ultimate Fighting Championship]?" he asked. "That is every bit as bad -- you know, that's terrible. But then you have thousands of people that cheer, rah, rah, and they really love that. You see guys get their heads busted, you know, and they get their arms messed up, their legs twisted almost off. But then they fuss over this here, is wrong."

When asked what he thinks people's reactions will be when they learn of his account of Vick's involvement in dog fighting, the source was nonplussed.

"They shouldn't be really upset, OK?" he said. "Because it's only just an animal. It's just a dog that is raised up. He's put out there, you know, and he's chained up, OK. And the time he gets a certain age, this dog is going to want to fight. It is bred in him, OK? He knows what he is and he's going to fight. Just take him off the leash, let him go."

"Dog fighting is illegal for a reason," says Goodwin. "It's a severe form of cruelty."

"The gameness that the dog fighters strive for -- and 'gameness' is the willingness to continue fighting, even in the face of extreme pain, even in the face of death -- is something that's bred into the dogs," Goodwin says. "There are pit bulls that have been bred away from the fighting lines that are perfectly socialized but the game bred dogs -- bred for fighting -- just have it bred in them, to want to kill any dog in front of them."

On Friday, Surry County Commonwealth Attorney Gerald Poindexter told The Associated Press that the investigation against Vick is "moving forward." When contacted by ESPN and asked for a response to the source's contention of Vick's involvment in dog fighting, Falcons spokesman Reggie Roberts responded via e-mail, "Michael was drafted by the Falcons in 2001. The allegations regarding him are still under investigation, and until we have facts related to the investigation, we are unable to respond further."

The NFL released this statement: "Dog fighting is cruel, degrading, and illegal. We support a thorough investigation into any allegations of this type of activity. Any NFL employee proved to be involved in this type of activity will be subject to prompt and significant discipline under our personal conduct policy."

While the NFL continues to monitor the Vick investigation, there's another group closely monitoring it as well but for a different reason.

"Everybody in the dog world is worried about Michael Vick talking," the source added, shortly before leaving our interview room and heading back to work. "Michael Vick is making large money, he's making millions, OK? And if he has to tell on some people [to avoid prison time], I think he would tell I don't put nothing past him."
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Old 05-27-2007, 11:43 AM   #2
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

Joe Horn recently made a statement that Michael Vick should still be considered a role model to children, and that he wouldn't have any problems with his own kids idolizing Michael Vick. I understand that he didn't want to throw his QB under the bus, but in that situation, you might want to take the high road and say that you don't want your kids idolizing professional athletes in general.
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Old 05-27-2007, 11:50 AM   #3
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

I keep hearing these reports, reading these articles yet the prosecutor said he has no evidence on Micheal Vick's involvement. Nothing to charge him. Yet reading these articles its portrayed like there are stuff. Guess the he said, she said doesnt stack up with no concrete evidence. Taking dog fighting equipment from the home doesnt mean Vick is involved. His family relative is the one who occupies it. Its like buying a car and giving it to someone. They get pulled over for speeding or with drugs...chances of it coming back on you arent that great. Its under your name but if you're not there how are you to blame. And i guess thats where the whole Vick ordeal comes into play. Was he there, When was he there...things you cant prove. You got some witnesses saying they saw Vick at fights, always at the house and others who say they never saw him. So you cancel those accounts out. What are you really left with?

And with Vick last incident when he was found innocent yet proven guilty by many (water bottle incident). You gotta give him the benefit of the doubt regardless of how you feel about him because in the end of nothing happens. Then what are you holding onto? Assumptions?

Time will tell to see how much evidence can be gathered and piled on the table. Right now its crumbs.
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Old 05-27-2007, 11:55 AM   #4
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
I keep hearing these reports, reading these articles yet the prosecutor said he has no evidence on Micheal Vick's involvement. Nothing to charge him. Yet reading these articles its portrayed like there are stuff. Guess the he said, she said doesnt stack up with no concrete evidence. Taking dog fighting equipment from the home doesnt mean Vick is involved. His family relative is the one who occupies it. Its like buying a car and giving it to someone. They get pulled over for speeding or with drugs...chances of it coming back on you arent that great. Its under your name but if you're not there how are you to blame. And i guess thats where the whole Vick ordeal comes into play. Was he there, When was he there...things you cant prove. You got some witnesses saying they saw Vick at fights, always at the house and others who say they never saw him. So you cancel those accounts out. What are you really left with?

And with Vick last incident when he was found innocent yet proven guilty by many (water bottle incident). You gotta give him the benefit of the doubt regardless of how you feel about him because in the end of nothing happens. Then what are you holding onto? Assumptions?

Time will tell to see how much evidence can be gathered and piled on the table. Right now its crumbs.


This is all part of our new guilty until proven innocent system in our society.
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Old 05-27-2007, 11:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

Espn outside the lines is on now about it. Graphic photos
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:29 PM   #6
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

I think it's pathetic how ESPN can drag Vick through the mud with "unamed sources". If the informant can't put his name out there, I don't want to hear what they have to say...
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

Quote:
Originally Posted by konex
I think it's pathetic how ESPN can drag Vick through the mud with "unamed sources". If the informant can't put his name out there, I don't want to hear what they have to say...


Long ago, it stopped being about "real news." Now, it's all sensationalism. It's all about winning the ratings game and competing with the other forms of media that exist.
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

Quote:
Originally Posted by konex
I think it's pathetic how ESPN can drag Vick through the mud with "unamed sources". If the informant can't put his name out there, I don't want to hear what they have to say...

He said Vick's name. He said he fought Vicks dog and beat it. He said Vick is what they call a "heavyweight", guys who bet big bucks. He said Vick while at the fights isnt in the pit but he has his boys handle the dogs while he flashes cash and makes large bets. He said Vick is known in the dog fighting world. The informant has been working as one for years gathering information, putting people behind bars. The dog fighting world isnt something you can go outside with your dog and join. Its a close knit, tight community. Its private....and everyone in it follows a code of silence. Why would this informant give up his face and name? You think he can continue being an informant after that???????? Use your head moron.
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...



Hey, Michael Vick what is up dawg???
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
He said Vick's name. He said he fought Vicks dog and beat it. He said Vick is what they call a "heavyweight", guys who bet big bucks. He said Vick while at the fights isnt in the pit but he has his boys handle the dogs while he flashes cash and makes large bets. He said Vick is known in the dog fighting world. The informant has been working as one for years gathering information, putting people behind bars. The dog fighting world isnt something you can go outside with your dog and join. Its a close knit, tight community. Its private....and everyone in it follows a code of silence. Why would this informant give up his face and name? You think he can continue being an informant after that???????? Use your head moron.

My beef is not with the guy. My beef is with a media outlet that gives him a forum to lob faceless accusations with nothing to back it up. It's crap and when Vick is eventually exonorated (you think they wouldn't have charged him by now if they had anything?) I wonder if they'll have other segments about that...
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:53 PM   #11
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
I keep hearing these reports, reading these articles yet the prosecutor said he has no evidence on Micheal Vick's involvement. Nothing to charge him. Yet reading these articles its portrayed like there are stuff. Guess the he said, she said doesnt stack up with no concrete evidence. Taking dog fighting equipment from the home doesnt mean Vick is involved. His family relative is the one who occupies it. Its like buying a car and giving it to someone. They get pulled over for speeding or with drugs...chances of it coming back on you arent that great. Its under your name but if you're not there how are you to blame. And i guess thats where the whole Vick ordeal comes into play. Was he there, When was he there...things you cant prove. You got some witnesses saying they saw Vick at fights, always at the house and others who say they never saw him. So you cancel those accounts out. What are you really left with?

And with Vick last incident when he was found innocent yet proven guilty by many (water bottle incident). You gotta give him the benefit of the doubt regardless of how you feel about him because in the end of nothing happens. Then what are you holding onto? Assumptions?

Time will tell to see how much evidence can be gathered and piled on the table. Right now its crumbs.

im glad you don't give out free legal advice because yes you can be charged for crimes on your property while you're not there. also anything in your car is yours unless someone else takes ownership of it. basically his cousin is going to jail for him or he is going to be in trouble. i mean the water bottle thing i don't know that was dubious but this is pretty solid looking?
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

Quote:
Originally Posted by konex
My beef is not with the guy. My beef is with a media outlet that gives him a forum to lob faceless accusations with nothing to back it up. It's crap and when Vick is eventually exonorated (you think they wouldn't have charged him by now if they had anything?) I wonder if they'll have other segments about that...

Nothing to back it up on? Why would he lie seeing him there. Why would he lie saying his dog beat Vicks?

He said the reason they havent charged him yet is because they want to really slam him hard. They got enough to charge him but chances of it hurting him arent great. They wanna make an example out of Vick. Thats how prosecutors, authorities to when it comes to celebs. Thats why this guy is an informant in general. He isnt there to point out "This is where the dog fight will be" and cops swarm. He's there to gather long term evidence piling it up so when its all said and done...heads are gonna drop hard. And thats what they are doing with Vick...they want to get him in such deep shyt that he rats out others. The informant said people are concerned Vick will talk if he is faced a serious charge. And as we type thats what the investigation is doing. Building a solid, strong case where Vick is given an option "You give up x, y, z and help yourself or you face the whole punishment".

I gurantee this is what they are doing....building a big case and they are gonna try to lynch the high profile star Michael Vick. Thats gonna make or break someones career. You see how much buzz just "allegations" have created. Why build a small case, throw petty charges at Vick now only to get it slapped back? I questioned how much evidence they have on Vick as well but after giving it thought I came to the conclusion that maybe they have more, they are getting more and they are waiting to drop it all on Vick in due time?

Not like Vick is gonna get suspended this season anyway. Coule take a couple more months before something is thrown at Vick. Either way his name being linked in all of this isnt a good look. Image is taking a hit....again.
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenuffff
im glad you don't give out free legal advice because yes you can be charged for crimes on your property while you're not there. also anything in your car is yours unless someone else takes ownership of it. basically his cousin is going to jail for him or he is going to be in trouble. i mean the water bottle thing i don't know that was dubious but this is pretty solid looking?

I'm glad you're no prosecutor. Your case would get eaten like the dogs in those graphic fight videos. If the case was solid charges would have been filed already. As you can see its not solid enough for them. But for you it is.
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Old 05-27-2007, 02:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

I only caught the back end of it so I didn't know the guy actually works for the cops. I thought he was just an anonymous guy in the industry...
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Old 05-27-2007, 04:37 PM   #15
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Default Re: Mike Vick is in BIG trouble if this new report is true...

i hope mike vick gets busted and thrown in jail...he's been a punk ever since he's been in the league...what ever happened to the whole "water bottle" incident a few months ago??? i bet the same thing happens with this...its a big deal, then somebody gets paid off to let it go or somethin.

GO TO JAIL RON MEXICO!!!!!!
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