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Old 05-31-2017, 07:35 PM   #16
tamaraw08
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

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Originally Posted by dd24
The numbers mean nothing to me. Everyone knows they don't look good on paper. But he did look quite promising in the games. He's definitely a work in progress. I don't see trading young assets to be a 7 seed in the playoffs. Dumbest move ever. Being stuck in mediocrity is the worst place to be in the NBA. Plus by Magic calling him untouchable all it does is make his worth go up. If there was a slight possibility of a trade teams will have to up their offer. The Lakers should keep building. Keep developing their young guys. Then once Golden State is forced to break up and Lebron is getting up there in age they will have some young guys in their prime. Then they can make moves. The Lakers aren't going to be contender overnight like they could in the past.

I understand the saying Figures don't lie but liars figure but it's not like I nitpicked a couple of his bad shooting games to back up my concern.
IMO, the accuracy of a player's 3-pt shooting in the last several years has been have been highly valued by most teams in the league. Lakers wasted their 34th pick on Anthony Brown and after just a year (2 training camps to evaluate his worth) shooting 28%, he was dropped like a hot potato.
Just in case you're not aware, I am rooting for the Lakers and therefore I want every player on that team to succeed. Yes, I am very concerned about his shooting that is why I am pushing hard for them to get the best shooting coach available bec IMO, his shooting accuracy along with D'Russ, and future draftees, from the 3pt area are one of the keys for them to succeed. I can't see GSW and Cavs going this far without being very good in that area (ranked 3rd and 2nd respectively).
It's not like I am advocating gutting the team to just trade for a midget aging and spoiled superstar. The 7-3 Porzingis is not even 22 yrs old yet and he has more answered questions about his game than Ingram with an ave of 18 pts, 50% EFG and 2 blocks per game.
BTW, I am very intrigue on how you really evaluate talent and worth, do you simply go by your "eye test"?

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Old 06-01-2017, 02:09 AM   #17
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

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Originally Posted by dd24
The numbers mean nothing to me. Everyone knows they don't look good on paper. But he did look quite promising in the games. He's definitely a work in progress. I don't see trading young assets to be a 7 seed in the playoffs. Dumbest move ever. Being stuck in mediocrity is the worst place to be in the NBA. Plus by Magic calling him untouchable all it does is make his worth go up. If there was a slight possibility of a trade teams will have to up their offer. The Lakers should keep building. Keep developing their young guys. Then once Golden State is forced to break up and Lebron is getting up there in age they will have some young guys in their prime. Then they can make moves. The Lakers aren't going to be contender overnight like they could in the past.

Ingram seems to have the intangibles based on everything I have seen throughout the season.

Sure, statistically things look bad but watching him play, I think there are clearly a lot of small things he brings to the table that simply won't show up on stat sheet. I know Lakers haters out there are quick to point out the stats to try to draw him as a bust, but it is clear most of them haven't seen ingram in more than a few games or they are just focused on the stat sheet. I do get annoyed a bit when he is drawn as a bust. He just finished his rookie season. Obviously, he is no Durant in rookie season but very few are as polished as Durant out of college.

I would not even consider trading him yet. Way too early and if his intangibles are a sign of what is to come, I am optimistic he will be an impactful starter within a year or 2.
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Old 06-01-2017, 02:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

Going after Porzingis would mean we would essentially need to either drop longterm investment in the depth that we have (it would also take away investment in Nance/Zubac). At the same moment, we would lose Ingram in the trade and possibly D'Angelo. We would lose team depth. I don't know if that would be worth it.

Let's say we hold onto Randle and have following lineup..

Porz
Randle
PG13
Clarkson
Ball
with not much depth off bench other than Nance.

Would that be better than a team with more depth like:

Nance
Randle
Ingram
Pg13
Ball
and D'Angelo/Clarkson off the bench?

I don't know if losing that much depth just to gain a big man like Porz would be worth it in a guard oriented league. I am just not sold on the idea.
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:36 PM   #19
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

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Originally Posted by bladefd
Ingram seems to have the intangibles based on everything I have seen throughout the season.

Sure, statistically things look bad but watching him play, I think there are clearly a lot of small things he brings to the table that simply won't show up on stat sheet. I know Lakers haters out there are quick to point out the stats to try to draw him as a bust, but it is clear most of them haven't seen ingram in more than a few games or they are just focused on the stat sheet. I do get annoyed a bit when he is drawn as a bust. He just finished his rookie season. Obviously, he is no Durant in rookie season but very few are as polished as Durant out of college.

I would not even consider trading him yet. Way too early and if his intangibles are a sign of what is to come, I am optimistic he will be an impactful starter within a year or 2.

No one knows really how Ingram would turn out in the next few years. A LOT will depend on how he works on his weaknesses this summer and the next season. I understand the intangibles, the guy is super long, intelligent, has great attitude and feel of the game etc etc etc but in my opinion, he would have a very difficult time justifying that 2nd over pick if he doesn't shoot above 35% from the 3pt area. Yes it sounds like I am being myopic.
Not unless ofcourse he turns into a James Harden mastering the art of drawing fouls, creating and being a true lock down defender.
Several months back, I argued back and forth with another poster named "pero Antic". He predicted that Ingram would NOT BE A SUPERSTAR and that he'll peak averaging 16pts, 5 rebs, 5 assists bec he claims, he is "slow" etc. I did my own research to dispute that point even found a link about his agility stat....

Last year, there was talk that Randle was really working on his shooting.. A coworker showed me on youtube on how Clarkson nailed about 20+ straight 3pt shots.... The latter actually regressed his % last season.
Yes, there is such a thing as waiting too long, holding to what you think would be great, then every manager sees what you see, and his value goes down. John Ireland brought it up more specifically about Russell. Now be honest, aren't you having some doubts about the ceiling of D'Angelo? And don't you think managers are actually salivating at the thought of giving away their top assets just to have him?

There is a ton of work to be done, I think it would be a huge mistake to ignore his glaring deficiencies (and think it's not a major concern) and be a perfect example of what "insanity" truly means.
Magic seems to be taking some good steps in that new direction, challenging them to be in better physical fit during exit meeting, hiring a new strength and conditioning director....

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Old 06-06-2017, 01:56 AM   #20
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

Do you guys put any stock into rumors of Lakers possibly passing up on Ball? In exchange for Josh Jackson or Fox? I don't so far.. Lakers haven't even tried out Ball or any of these guys.. I don't understand what are these rumors based on.. All Lakers scouts and front office have analyzed so far are college videos. They haven't met any of them, tried them out or even put them through workout with other Lakers players. Is it not too early for the rumors to be taken seriously?
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Old 06-06-2017, 03:21 AM   #21
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

I think the rumors had to be leaked in case the Celtics were seriously considering taking Ball. They may have tried to force the Lakers hand to trade up. But.... if the Lakers don't want Ball because they like someone else better (or so the rumors say) then other teams may want to try to trade up to go after Fox or Jackson. Then the Lakers could move down a pick or two and still get Ball. All the while, making the Celtics cool down on him. I think it's just part of the strategy.

I do think they really do need to look at all these players close up still in the workouts though. Jackson and Fox do make a case for the #2 pick. Really this is a deep draft. I really like that top 4, heck top 10 lol. I'm not saying they're all all-stars but there's some solid starters there for sure.
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Old 06-09-2017, 12:10 PM   #22
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

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Originally Posted by dd24
I think the rumors had to be leaked in case the Celtics were seriously considering taking Ball. They may have tried to force the Lakers hand to trade up. But.... if the Lakers don't want Ball because they like someone else better (or so the rumors say) then other teams may want to try to trade up to go after Fox or Jackson. Then the Lakers could move down a pick or two and still get Ball. All the while, making the Celtics cool down on him. I think it's just part of the strategy.

I do think they really do need to look at all these players close up still in the workouts though. Jackson and Fox do make a case for the #2 pick. Really this is a deep draft. I really like that top 4, heck top 10 lol. I'm not saying they're all all-stars but there's some solid starters there for sure.

It would not hurt to do extensive research and take a much closer look at all the players. I like Jackson but I'm not too impressed with Fox but hey....
Biggest knock on Jackson's weakness was his shooting, yet he shot 38% from the 3. Watching TWC Lakers Network last night the question was what does Fox have to do to impress and convince the Lakers he's a better pick than Ball. Woj and one of the Kamenetsky brothers said SHOOT MUCH BETTER! bec he averaged 25% from the college 3pt line.
I did my little research, he actually shot UNDER 25% from the college line which is just beyond 20 feet!That's missing 75% of his shots from about 19.75 feet.
College players like Anthony Brown and Ingram shot at about 40% from the same area and yet have both struggled from beyond 24 feet....3pt shooting is such a premium the past several years that is why Ball was asked to do a TON of shooting drills during his work out, also probablythe reason why GSW and Cavs are on the finals bec they were both top 3 in 3pt shooting.

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Old 06-09-2017, 01:38 PM   #23
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

Part of the reason why I like Malik Monk. I think he's going to be a really good fit for whoever he falls to. Shooting is at a premium and someone around probably 8-12 is going to get really lucky that he drops to them.
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Old 06-09-2017, 04:27 PM   #24
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

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Originally Posted by dd24
Part of the reason why I like Malik Monk. I think he's going to be a really good fit for whoever he falls to. Shooting is at a premium and someone around probably 8-12 is going to get really lucky that he drops to them.

Monk would have been easily top 3 if he's 6-6, unfortunately, he's only 6-3, comparable to Lou Williams. SG's who has legit size is so highly valued right now that if you do the re-draft, Devin Booker would have been top 3.
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/malik-monk
Quote:
Weaknesses: Certainly best as a scoring guard, though at around 6’3 with a 6’6 wingspan, definitely would be considered undersized and could struggle defending bigger guards … While some have referred to him as a combo guard, he is not particularly comfortable setting up the offense and does not really show the vision of a primary handler
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Old 06-09-2017, 04:51 PM   #25
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

Supposedly Lonzo Ball's workout was disappointing/underwhelming reports say today.

Either way I want Fox or Jackson, Jackson the most.

Fultz
Jackson
Fox
Ball

imo.
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Old 06-09-2017, 05:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

6'3" is too short for that position, but his shooting is going to make him dangerous.
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Old 06-09-2017, 08:49 PM   #27
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonislegend
Supposedly Lonzo Ball's workout was disappointing/underwhelming reports say today.

Either way I want Fox or Jackson, Jackson the most.

Fultz
Jackson
Fox
Ball

imo.

Fultz not dropping to Lakers.

I would say it depends on how Fox does in workout on Tuesday. That should determine whether Fox or Ball is the choice between the two. Jackson will be a SG so you have to judge him a bit differently.

We need a pg more so than a sg tbh, especially with PG13 being a very good chance of coming to Lakers. PG is a SF/SG hybrid. This is why I am not sure if Jackson is the right choice unless if he just impresses them of their minds.
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Old 06-09-2017, 10:43 PM   #28
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladefd
Fultz not dropping to Lakers.

I would say it depends on how Fox does in workout on Tuesday. That should determine whether Fox or Ball is the choice between the two. Jackson will be a SG so you have to judge him a bit differently.

We need a pg more so than a sg tbh, especially with PG13 being a very good chance of coming to Lakers. PG is a SF/SG hybrid. This is why I am not sure if Jackson is the right choice unless if he just impresses them of their minds.

With Ingram's great flexibility and Russell at 6-4, IMO, Josh Jackson can fit right in bec he is also known to be flexible and a very good 2-way player. However, I still prefer Ball who has great range and supreme ability to be a great court general, spot and set up players in better scoring position etc.
I have big concerns for Fox who MISSED 75% of his shots from just beyond 19.70 feet. I can't imagine him really shooting much better from 24 feet.
Having said that, if he turns out to be the next John Wall, then by all means.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:42 AM   #29
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Default Re: 2017 NBA Draft Thread | Lonzo Hype?

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Originally Posted by tamaraw08
With Ingram's great flexibility and Russell at 6-4, IMO, Josh Jackson can fit right in bec he is also known to be flexible and a very good 2-way player. However, I still prefer Ball who has great range and supreme ability to be a great court general, spot and set up players in better scoring position etc.
I have big concerns for Fox who MISSED 75% of his shots from just beyond 19.70 feet. I can't imagine him really shooting much better from 24 feet.
Having said that, if he turns out to be the next John Wall, then by all means.

The issue is that Jackson is not a very good shooter and lacks range too AFAIK. Unless if Ingram improves significantly and Jackson too, I am not sure if it would be a good idea to start both of them together. Add Russell in there too and you have a recipe for disaster potentially with teams stacking the paint. We need to be able to spread the field a bit.

Damn, that's some crappy long range numbers for Fox. Ball is definitely a significantly better shooter from practically everywhere even with a truly odd shooting style.

I read Lakers were bit disappointed by Ball's conditioning in the tryout on Wednesday. Not sure if he was out of shape or what.. I also don't know how much stock to put into these rumors.

Last edited by bladefd : 06-12-2017 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:48 AM   #30
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Default Re: ☆ Official 2017 NBA Draft Thread

supposedly lakers promised jackson they gonna draft him but possibly a smoke screen.
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