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Old 07-06-2006, 08:08 PM   #46
shadow
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man what's with all the Kobe love from the heat this year?
First shaq and Kobe kiss and make up.
Then Wade want's to work on his D with Kobe cos GP recommended it.
Then shaq calls him The Great Kobe Bryant without being sarcastic in a TV interview (superman premiere i think)
Now 'Zo is giving the guy props.

I guess in a way it makes sense since he is largely responsible for getting these guys their ring. If Dr. Buss didn't choose Kobe the heat woulda been bling-bling-less. And people still call Kobe selfish. :p
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:11 PM   #47
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Default That's strecthing it a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jan803
shaq was not prime. very good. but his prime was short.

there was NO ONE stopping him in 2000.

2001 and 2002 he was the most dominant in the league. however, particularly in 2002, there was some who felt that the kings were the better team. many feel that robert horry was more of a hero in 2002 in a sense. he saved the lakers during the conference finals.

2003...that was the 'toe' incident.

2004...shaq was losing a step and it showed on the defensive end. payton was getting blown by faster guards all year. malone's knee injury was probably the biggest obstacle although everyone but payton missed games during that season.

there was other things going on then i don't need nor want to go over.

you want to pat wade on the back for ft's winning championships, great. whatever it takes to win a dam trophy is the way it has to be.

but no one player wins it all. your precious jordan, as great as he was, still needed the rest of his team to follow through w/their own roles so jordan can get all the credit you'll continue to bestow on him.

2000-2002, the championship years, Shaquille CLEARLY was the main catalyst.

Even in 03' & 04', outside of Duncan, Shaq is CLEARLY the 2nd best Big in the NBA.

I think Kobe is the better player but if I'm the Lakers called the Heat about a swap for Wade I wouldn't do it. Easy to say now but I said last year after the playoffs also.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:15 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarJordan
You're in denial. Kobe has neither talent to dominate against tough teams nor does have the temperament that inspires fellow players to play over their capability. That's really the only reason why Kobe couldn't get it done with an old Payton while Wade did it with even an older one.

payton's role on the laker, did you watch him play?

he didn't catch on the the triange right away. he really didn't like that offense very much. it didn't suit his more open style of play that's he's been used to. he moped about it to phil so phil would sit his a$$ on the bench.

that's on kobe of course. :rollingeyes:

and all those guards, (parker really comes to mind) blowing past payton at will.

oh sh*t, kobe should have made gary faster.

on the heat, payton had a role that fit his style. he had limited minutes and the time he was on the floor, he made the clutch plays. he knew what he needed to do.

just stop w/blaming kobe for other people's shortcomings. the other player on any team have their own responsibilty to know and accept their roles. gary didn't.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:16 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFRESH44
What's your point?

It's no secret that a star player needs an overall compentant team/cast to reach a champioship level.

Exactly, hence the reason when JordanStar says "Wade took Finals MVP after being down 2-0, Kobe choked away a 3-1 lead." it's not fair, because Wade had a great cast that helped him win the championship. Kobe didn't.

We're on the same page, buddy.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:17 PM   #50
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No but you get more endorsements,your shoe company wants to release more products and even the basketball hall of fame ask for your shoes,therefore you get money from that and you are in the books

Dumbass even in endorsements, kobe is #2. Lebron has TWICE the endorsemnt of Kobe and Wade's jerseys sell more. Wade was on letterman after the NBA finals and is on the Wheaties box, which kobe has to buy.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:22 PM   #51
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it's not fair, because Wade had a great cast that helped him win the championship. Kobe didn't.

We're on the same page, buddy.

Fair enough. I agree on that point on it not being fair.

However Kobe is not THAT great (or atleast hasn't proven it yet) for you to say Give him Wade's cast even Minus Shaq, they win the championship. Because Kobe himself has won zero championships series without a Prime Shaquille O'Neal.

Last edited by BFRESH44 : 07-06-2006 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:22 PM   #52
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Exactly, hence the reason when JordanStar says "Wade took Finals MVP after being down 2-0, Kobe choked away a 3-1 lead." it's not fair, because Wade had a great cast that helped him win the championship. Kobe didn't.

Except that great cast (half of whom were rejects and hasbeens by this point) won only 52 games, just 7 more than Kobe's lakers. Wade led that team that many were predicting to lose in the opening round itself to a TITLE. So your argument has more holes than swiss cheese.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:23 PM   #53
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What a freaking moron. Who gives a damn bout Wade being on Lettermen. Dude your really reaching, don't get all bend out of shape cause Alonzo says in his mind that "kobe is the best player in the nba".
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:23 PM   #54
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Because Kobe himself has won zero championships series without a Prime Shaquille O'Neal.

Has won zero championships series? How about winning ANY series?
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:24 PM   #55
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Lets not pretend that Wade simply replaced Kobe and thus Wade's win is Kobe's defeat.

Different players, different series, different results...however, Shaq was better in the 2003 Finals, but Payton wasn't the starting pg, J.williams was. Between J.Will and Payton, the Heat were able to better control pick/rolls directed at Shaq.

Shaq was older, but did a much better job helping on the p/r.

Wade also played better than Kobe did in 2003 - in the Finals and against the Pistons.

I'm not sure that a healthy Malone wins a title in 2003 or that Wade in place of Kobe wins a title in 2003. I'm not sure that Kobe in place of Wade wins a title in 2006.

Different guys, different games.

Can't we just enoy the fact that Wade played great in these Finals and Kobe played like a$$ in the 03 Finals.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:25 PM   #56
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What a freaking moron. Who gives a damn bout Wade being on Lettermen. Dude your really reaching, don't get all bend out of shape cause Alonzo says in his mind that "kobe is the best player in the nba".

Groupie I'm responding to your fellow groupie claims about endorsements and publicity. You get most pub when you win the finals. Go look up how many articles there are on Dwyane Wade right now.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:26 PM   #57
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Well I guess that wade and his most pub got Alonzo saying that kobe>wade.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:29 PM   #58
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Has won zero championships series? How about winning ANY series?

LOL, true.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:30 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rashid242
2000-2002, the championship years, Shaquille CLEARLY was the main catalyst.

Even in 03' & 04', outside of Duncan, Shaq is CLEARLY the 2nd best Big in the NBA.

I think Kobe is the better player but if I'm the Lakers called the Heat about a swap for Wade I wouldn't do it. Easy to say now but I said last year after the playoffs also.

i hear you, but starjordan makes arguments that sometimes just gets on my nerves.

maybe i'm pulling hairs to some people, but shaq was starting to show signs of slowing down. people just don't like to acknowledge that on the defensive end of the floor, he got lazy. i don't give him a pass, dispite how great he was on the offensive end of the floor.

he got 7rbs in one of those games and the media here in la glossed over it like it was no big deal. that kind of sh*t still makes me po'd!
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:31 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Zaza
Lets not pretend that Wade simply replaced Kobe and thus Wade's win is Kobe's defeat.

Different players, different series, different results...however, Shaq was better in the 2003 Finals, but Payton wasn't the starting pg, J.williams was. Between J.Will and Payton, the Heat were able to better control pick/rolls directed at Shaq.

Shaq was older, but did a much better job helping on the p/r.

Wade also played better than Kobe did in 2003 - in the Finals and against the Pistons.

I'm not sure that a healthy Malone wins a title in 2003 or that Wade in place of Kobe wins a title in 2003. I'm not sure that Kobe in place of Wade wins a title in 2006.

Different guys, different games.

Can't we just enoy the fact that Wade played great in these Finals and Kobe played like a$$ in the 03 Finals.

Excellent points. I hate when peeps resort to hyptheticals that have no validation whatsoever.
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