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Old 08-22-2017, 05:10 AM   #1
julizaver
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Default Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

I got free trial access to www.newspapers.com and was able to find additional shot blocking data, the info is mostly from the Californian newspapers (Indipendent Press-Telegram was one of the sources, who keep track of a lot of shot-blocking data at the time, LA Times also and others). Due to the fact that I can't update the old thread
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=170340 I created a new one. The updated data will be bolded.

Regular season – 1969-70

1. Date: Fri 10/24/69
- Chamberlain 25 pts, 25 rebs, 5 as, 3 blocks, 9-14 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 23 pts, 20 rebs, 2 as, 2 blocks, 9-21 FG/FGA L

Regular season – 1970-71

2. Date: Fri 11/20/70
- Chamberlain 28 pts, 23 rebs, 3 as, 10 blocks, 7-20 FG/FGA – 6 blocks against Jabbar L
-Abdul-Jabbar 29 pts, 13 rebs, 0 as, 2 blocks, 13-32 FG/FGA W

3. Date: Mon 12/21/70
- Chamberlain 25 pts, 14 rebs, 3 as, 2 blocks, 11-23 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 16 rebs, 0 as, 4 blocks, 17-33 FG/FGA W

4. Date: Fri 02/05/71
- Chamberlain 14 pts, 14 rebs, 3 as, 6 blocks, 7-10 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 27 pts, 10 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 10-21 FG/FGA L

5. Date: Thu 02/11/71
- Chamberlain 25 pts, 11 rebs, 1 as, * blocks, 10-19 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 31 pts, 21 rebs, 0 as, * blocks, 13-30 FG/FGA – 2 blocks against Wilt W

6. Date: Wed 03/03/71
- Chamberlain 24 pts, 13 rebs, 5 as, 6 blocks, 7-15 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 15 pts, 6 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 7-21 FG/FGA W

Post season – 1970-71 – WCF playoffs

7. Date: Fri 04/09/71
- Chamberlain 22 pts, 20 rebs, 1 as, 8 blocks, 10-19 FG/FGA – 3 blocks against Jabbar L
-Abdul-Jabbar 32 pts, 22 rebs, 1 as, 1 blocks, 14-30 FG/FGA W

8. Date: Sun 04/11/71
- Chamberlain 26 pts, 22 rebs, 0 as, 3 blocks, 10-21 FG/FGA - Wilt blocked numerious shots L
-Abdul-Jabbar 22 pts, 10 rebs, 4 as, 3 blocks, 9-19 FG/FGA W

9. Date: Wed 04/14/71
- Chamberlain 24 pts, 24 rebs, 3 as, 3 blocks, 9-19 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 20 pts, 19 rebs, 6 as, 0 blocks, 8-16 FG/FGA L

10.Date: Fri 04/16/71
- Chamberlain 15 pts, 16 rebs, 2 as, 2 blocks, 7-14 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 31 pts, 20 rebs, 5 as, 3 blocks, 14-20 FG/FGA W

11.Date: Sun 04/18/71
- Chamberlain 23 pts, 12 rebs, 4 as, 6 blocks, 10-21 FG/FGA – 5 blocks against Jabbar L
-Abdul-Jabbar 20 pts, 15 rebs, 5 as, 3 blocks, 7-23 FG/FGA W

According to an article from 19.04.1971 Wilt blocked 22 shots and Lew Alcindor blocked 10 shots for the 5 game series.

Regular season – 1971-72

12.Date: Sat 11/21/71
- Chamberlain 11 pts, 26 rebs, 6 as, 4 blocks, 4-9 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 39 pts, 17 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 17-33 FG/FGA L

13.Date: Sun 01/09/72
- Chamberlain 15 pts, 12 rebs, 2 as, 6 blocks, 7-11 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 39 pts, 20 rebs, 5 as, 9 blocks, 18-34 FG/FGA W

14.Date: Fri 02/04/72
- Chamberlain 18 pts, 25 rebs, 3 as, 6 blocks, 8-14 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 40 pts, 18 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 16-33 FG/FGA L

15.Date: Wed 03/01/72
- Chamberlain 8 pts, 17 rebs, 5 as, 6 blocks, 3-5 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 12 rebs, 8 as, 3 blocks, 13-33 FG/FGA L

16.Date: Fri 03/17/72
- Chamberlain 18 pts, 25 rebs, 5 as, * blocks, 7-15 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 50 pts, 8 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 22-39 FG/FGA L

Post season – 1971-72 – WCF playoffs

17.Date: Sun 04/09/72
- Chamberlain 10 pts, 24 rebs, 0 as, * blocks, 3-12 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 18 rebs, 2 as, 7 blocks, 14-26 FG/FGA W

18.Date: Wed 04/12/72
- Chamberlain 11 pts, 17 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 3-5 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 40 pts, 7 rebs, 7 as, * blocks, 18-31 FG/FGA L

19.Date: Fri 04/14/72
- Chamberlain 7 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, 10 blocks, 1-3 FG/FGA – 6 blocks against Jabbar W
-Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 21 rebs, 6 as, 3 blocks, 15-37 FG/FGA L

20.Date: Sun 04/16/72
- Chamberlain 5 pts, 11 rebs, 4 as, 3 blocks, 2-7 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 31 pts, 18 rebs, 3 as, 7 blocks, 14-33 FG/FGA W

21.Date: Tue 04/18/72
- Chamberlain 12 pts, 26 rebs, 6 as, 9 blocks, 2-3 FG/FGA - 4 blocks against Jabbar W
-Abdul-Jabbar 28 pts, 16 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 13-33 FG/FGA L

22.Date: Sat 04/22/72
- Chamberlain 20 pts, 24 rebs, 2 as, 9 blocks, 8-12 FG/FGA - 3 blocks and 2 steals against Jabbar W
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 25 rebs, 8 as, * blocks, 16-37 FG/FGA L

Regular season – 1972-73

23.Date: Tue 11/14/72
- Chamberlain 16 pts, 15 rebs, 1 as, * blocks, 8-12 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 16 rebs, 6 as, 7 blocks, 17-32 FG/FGA L

24.Date: Tue 12/05/72
- Chamberlain 9 pts, 15 rebs, 7 as, * blocks, 4-4 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 29 pts, 17 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 11-30 FG/FGA L

25.Date: Sun 01/07/73
- Chamberlain 9 pts, 18 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 3-5 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 12 rebs, 7 as, * blocks, 17-36 FG/FGA W

26.Date: Fri 02/09/73
- Chamberlain 8 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 3-3 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 29 pts, 24 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 14-24 FG/FGA W

27.Date: Sun 02/25/73
- Chamberlain 24 pts, 20 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 10-14 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 21 pts, 21 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 10-27 FG/FGA L

28.Date: Tue 03/27/73
- Chamberlain 0 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 0-0 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 24 pts, 17 rebs, 1 as, * blocks, 12-31 FG/FGA W

W = team wоn
L = team lost

The total minutes played:
Chamberlain - 1259 minutes or 44.96 per game
Jabbar - 1208 minutes or 43.14 per game

The FTs data:
Chamberlain - 106 from 218 (48.62 %)
Jabbar - 111 from 155 (71.61 %)

* Blocked stats are collected from archive newspapers articles (as most of the data), NBA doesn't kept track of blocked shots before 1973/74 season. I find in the forum info about Wilt blocked 8 shots in game 1 of 1971/72 regular season, but I was not able to find evidence in google news archive search,so again I do not post it.

Resume of the updated data:


Game 6 Wilt blocked 6 instead of 8 - seems to be mistaken with the next game
Game 8 Kareem with 3 blocks
Game 9 Kareem with 0 blocks
Game 14 Wilt with 6 bloks
Game 15 Wilt with 6 blocks, Kareem with 3 blocks
Game 17 Kareem with 7 blocks (in the same article, but on next page Kareem with 10 from 17 of Bucks blocks that game ?)

-

Last edited by julizaver : 08-22-2017 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 08-22-2017, 05:37 AM   #2
dunksby
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

Thanks, nice work.
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:46 AM   #3
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

Thanks very much for your due diligence!
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

Goes well with what we knew about them at this point in their careers

Kareem was the better scorer (Wilt was barely taking shots though, if he took more I don't doubt he'd be putting up better offensive numbers) but Wilt was dominant defensively
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:13 AM   #5
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated



Nice to know real basketball is still sometimes actually discussed here and not just the constant troll fest that we usually see.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCause
Goes well with what we knew about them at this point in their careers

Kareem was the better scorer (Wilt was barely taking shots though, if he took more I don't doubt he'd be putting up better offensive numbers) but Wilt was dominant defensively
He would not be as good defensively if he was to do more on the offensive side; and surely there is no guarantee he would be as effective. Overall, Kareem outperformed him and won more, that is what unfolded.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunksby
He would not be as good defensively if he was to do more on the offensive side; and surely there is no guarantee he would be as effective. Overall, Kareem outperformed him and won more, that is what unfolded.

Not true at all. In their '71 playoff series H2H, Wilt was credited by newspaper recaps as outplaying KAJ in that series, and overall, it was about a 3-1-1 margin in those five games. This, by a 34 year old Wilt, a year removed from major knee surgery, and having the worst season of his career...and going up against arguably a peak Kareem.

Then, despite being heavily outscored, Chamberlain was UNANIMOUSLY proclaimed by virtually everyone who witnessed the their '72 playoff series H2H, as having oytplayed Kareem. In fact, Time Magazine went so far as to claim that a 35 year old Wilt DECISIVELY OUTPLAYED a 25 year old Kareem.

Of course, Chamberlain was well past his prime in 27 of those 28 career H2H's, and in the one in which they played before he shredded his knee, he wiped the floor with Kareem.

What would have been interesting would have been a peak Chamberlain vs a peak Kareem. However, given the FACT that a prime Chamberlain was considerably more dominant against the same centers that a prime Kareem would face a few years later, I don't think there is any doubt that a prime Wilt would have been a more dominant player.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:36 AM   #8
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
Not true at all. In their '71 playoff series H2H, Wilt was credited by newspaper recaps as outplaying KAJ in that series, and overall, it was about a 3-1-1 margin in those five games. This, by a 34 year old Wilt, a year removed from major knee surgery, and having the worst season of his career...and going up against arguably a peak Kareem.

Then, despite being heavily outscored, Chamberlain was UNANIMOUSLY proclaimed by virtually everyone who witnessed the their '72 playoff series H2H, as having oytplayed Kareem. In fact, Time Magazine went so far as to claim that a 35 year old Wilt DECISIVELY OUTPLAYED a 25 year old Kareem.

Of course, Chamberlain was well past his prime in 27 of those 28 career H2H's, and in the one in which they played before he shredded his knee, he wiped the floor with Kareem.

What would have been interesting would have been a peak Chamberlain vs a peak Kareem. However, given the FACT that a prime Chamberlain was considerably more dominant against the same centers that a prime Kareem would face a few years later, I don't think there is any doubt that a prime Wilt would have been a more dominant player.
Newspaper recaps? I'm sorry but I don't trust journalists of today with anything, never mind the ones from the 70s, numbers and wins are all I can go by and they heavily favour Kareem on a much more inferior team.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunksby
Newspaper recaps? I'm sorry but I don't trust journalists of today with anything, never mind the ones from the 70s, numbers and wins are all I can go by and they heavily favour Kareem on a much more inferior team.

You mean a Kareem team that had Oscar, Dandridge, and a host of shooters and defenders that would go 66-16...going up against a 34 year old Wilt, who was playing in that series without his TWO best teammates (West and Baylor...both injured and both of whom missed the entire playoffs)?
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:42 AM   #10
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

'71 WCF's...

Quote:
Game 5 April 18, 1971

Bucks Await Championship Series
Wilt Wins 7-Foot Battle But Loses 7-Game Set

By BOB GREENE
Associated Press Sports Writer

MILWAUKEE — Wilt Chamberlain captured the battle of the seven-footers,
but soaring "Captain Marvel" powered t he Milwaukee Bucks to the Western
Conference title yesterday in the National Basketball Association playoffs.
The Bucks, 116-98 winners over the Los Angeles Lakers, now will take on
the Eastern Conference champions Wednesday night in the opening game of the best-of-7 championship series.

Milwaukee's opponent will be the winner of tonight's battle between
the New York Knicks and the Baltimore Bullets. The Bullets deadlocked their
semifinal series against the Knicks with a 113-96 victory
Sunday, forcing a seventh game in New York tonight

"Captain Marvel" is Greg Smith, the Bucks' 6 foot-5 forward
who is considered long on defense but short on offense.
Against the Lakers Sunday, he paced the Bucks with 22 points,
leading Milwaukee's well-balanced scoring attack.

"This is the first time I've led a team in scoring since I was in
high school," said Smith, a three year NBA veteran.
"That's seven years since I've been the high scorer."

While 7-2 Lew Alcindor and 7-1 Chamberlain battled, Smith
sneaked in time and again for crucial rebounds or vital points.
Because of foul trouble, he played only 23 minutes, less
than one-half of the game.

Chamberlain, the veteran Laker center, continued his dominance
outscoring the Bucks' center, 23-20, and blocked six shots
while Alcindor slapped away three would-be baskets.

Four times, Chamberlain knocked away an Alcindor field
goal attempt, and twice Alcindor did the same on Chamberlain's
shots.


In the rebounding battle, Alcindor finished with 15 and
Chamberlain 12.

Bob Dandridge added 20 points to Milwaukee's total.
High for Los Angeles was Happy Hairston with 27.
With their first conference crown in hand, the Bucks
immediately turned to their next goal, the NBA championship.
"We want the Knicks," said Robertson. "We have something
to prove. If we beat Baltimore, everyone will say the Knicks
were the best team, they lost because of injuries."

Alcindor agreed. "We want to be the best," he
said, "and we want to do it by beating the champions.

Quote:
Apr 19, 1971
Wilt Chamberlain Predicts Bucks Going All The Way
By DAVE BEGEL
MILWAUKEE, Wis. (UPI)-
Wilt Chamberlain made a prediction Sunday after he and the
soundly beaten 116-98 by the Milwaukee Bucks.
"Man," Chamberlain said, "Milwaukee's going all the way.
They're going all the way." He knew the Bucks had
earned the right to meet the winner of the Baltimore Bullets-
New York Knicks series for the championship of the National
Basketball Association. The Knicks and Bullets meet to
determine who gets the dubious privilege of taking on Milwaukee.

The Big Los Angeles center should know whereof he speaks,
he has just come through a rugged five games against the
Bucks and he almost singlehandedly made it as tough for
Milwaukee as it was
.

In the Milwaukee locker room after the game, talk centered
around the game just finished, rather than any game coming
ran and played our Bucks Coach Larry Costello said. "We didn't
want to go back to L.A. (for a sixth game if it was necessary) and
now we don't have to."

But Costello gave in to the to talk about the
a funny feeling Baltimore is going to win it,"
he said, but added, "I don't care who wins—we'll be ready."
Then Costello paused and grinned.

"Maybe I'd rather play New York. There's some rumors
going around about them being better than we are, and I think
we'd like to dispel some of those rumors," he said.
Lakers Coach Joe Mullaney said the Bucks had the team to
win it all.

"With Baltimore's center (Wes Unseld) the Bullets will
have trouble against the Bucks," he said. "And with
Willis Reed hurt for New York, the Bucks can take it all. A
healthy Reed would give Milwaukee trouble, but any
team with Lew Alcindor on it has the potential to win it all."
Alcindor certainly gave it a good shot in Sunday's game.

The big sophomore played both ends of the court and finished
with 20 points and 15 rebounds. But it was Chamberlain, the
visitor to Milwaukee with the foreboding visage, who captured
the hearts of the 10,746 Milwaukee fans who crammed
the Milwaukee arena.


Big Wilt had 23 points and 12
rebounds and hustled like he had throughout the series.
When he left the floor with 1:54 left in the game the entire
arena stood and cheered the often maligned center of the
Lakers. "That was nice of them—very nice
." Chamberlain said.

Interesting ...

As Wilt left the floor in the last minute of the clinching game of that series, he received a standing ovation...and the game was played in MILWAUKEE.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:44 AM   #11
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic


Nice to know real basketball is still sometimes actually discussed here and not just the constant troll fest that we usually see.

THIS.



Great work Julizaver!
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:48 AM   #12
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunksby
Newspaper recaps? I'm sorry but I don't trust journalists of today with anything, never mind the ones from the 70s, numbers and wins are all I can go by and they heavily favour Kareem on a much more inferior team.

BTW, in their four years in the league together, Chamberlain held a 3-1 margin in Finals.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

Quote:
13.Date: Sun 01/09/72
- Chamberlain 15 pts, 12 rebs, 2 as, 6 blocks, 7-11 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 39 pts, 20 rebs, 5 as, 9 blocks, 18-34 FG/FGA W

As a sidenote to above...I know that you are using newspaper recaps, but if you watch that game, which is the only full game footage we have between the two, Chamberlain actually outblocked Kareem by probably a 4-3 to margin.

Last edited by LAZERUSS : 08-22-2017 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:03 AM   #14
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

Laz I'm curious

Do you post all of this Wilt shit to sway the opinion of the person you're discussing it with, or is it moreso for lurkers and others who may read the site? Or both?

I think you provide a great deal of info for people browsing who aren't already familiar with it, though it gets very repetitive since its usually copy/paste
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:27 AM   #15
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul-Jabbar game by game stats_updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCause
Laz I'm curious

Do you post all of this Wilt shit to sway the opinion of the person you're discussing it with, or is it moreso for lurkers and others who may read the site? Or both?

I think you provide a great deal of info for people browsing who aren't already familiar with it, though it gets very repetitive since its usually copy/paste

Of all of the truly gifted athletes, Chamberlain is easily the most dismissed in history. For years he was painted as a big clumsy Frankenstein dunking on helpless 6-5 white nerds. There were those that claimed that he was nowhere near a great leaper, nor did he actually have extraordinary strength. Those were "myths."

Other "myths"...Russell "owned" Wilt. Yep...Chamberlain could dominate those 6-5 nerds, but when he went up against Russell, Russell dominated him.

Well, those that actually watched Chamberlain play knew that he was indeed a one-of-a-kind. But again, as the years went by, his records and feats became diminished.


Then, thanks to posters like Julizaver, and those at nbastats.net, we now KNOW the staggering numbers Chamberlain was putting up...including his play against Russell in their 143 career H2H's. Not only did Wilt outplay Russell in the vast majority of those H2H's, he was downright carpet-bombing him in many of them.

Then, thanks to posters like CavFTW, we have FOOTAGE, and even FIRST-HAND interviews with the likes of Tex Winter, Hank Stram, and Arnold Schwartzennger, which clearly confirm what was known at the time...that Wilt was a world-class athlete with enormous strength.


Now, will what I post change the minds of many here? Doubtful. But as you mentioned, perhaps it will affect those that are on the fence, or perhaps even new to the history of the NBA.
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