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Old 08-25-2017, 02:25 PM   #1
Doomsday Dallas
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Default I finally watched Zodiac - and I have a theory who the killer is

Spoiler/ Ending

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRQEUdpuQwM



I didn't know any of the circumstances or facts surrounding this true story... but finally got around to watching this masterpiece and I've put together a theory of my own. This story is absolutely bizarre, and I can only conclude that the Zodiac Killer was not one person... but many.

I've studied this type of stuff before... for years.

There are two common traits about serial killers that people are often unaware of.

#1. They usually do NOT work alone (this is always covered up)

#2. They are possessed by entities (this can NOT be explained by science).

I think the last part of this film (the first minute of the video I posted) was very telling. Jake Gyllenhaal's (Robert Graysmith) reaction says it all when standing face to face with the man he suspected to be the killer. He was satisfied, and unsatisfied at the same time, meaning he only solved part of the crime.



So who is the killer?

answer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=563xkXq4duw

it's the same demon...

but it used different physical bodies to carry out these crimes.

this is why the case was never officially solved... and it never will be.
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Old 08-25-2017, 02:41 PM   #2
Patrick Chewing
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Default Re: I finally watched Zodiac - and I have a theory who the killer is

Excellent movie. A little too long, but great acting nonetheless.



I think Jack the Ripper was also a couple of people. Or at least multiple people knew of him or aided him.
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Old 08-25-2017, 03:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: I finally watched Zodiac - and I have a theory who the killer is

Met Inspector Dave Toschi on business whos character was played by Ruffalo. Wanted to ask him some stuff bout the Z case but didnt.

Good flick.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: I finally watched Zodiac - and I have a theory who the killer is

I'm a little out of practice, but I at one time considered myself one of the world's leading experts on The Zodiac (jokingly) ... but I have read at least ten books, and started with the movie's subject book by the Jake Gyllenhaal character Robert Greysmith, and this was before the film.

One of the things the movie gets right is that the book is every bit as much about the author's obsessive compulsion about this killer as it is about the Zodiac killings in general. The book is a truly great read, but it wasn't long until after the book was over that I just couldn't believe that Greysmith's guy Arthur Lee Allen could be the guy. At least not how Greysmith believes, because by the time the thing is done, Greysmith has tied him to seemingly every unsolved missing person along the California coastline from 55 -65.

I too however have long believed their may be more than one Zodiac. Allen, who could realistically be the culprit for at least one of the murders, was cleared via DNA testing on the stamps from one of the Paul Stine bloody shirt letters. The thought being that the Stine letters were definitively from The Zodiac considering they contained actual evidence. It didn't match Allen. Allen is tied strongly to the handwriting analysis of the California Expert at the time through Greysmith's research, but later, it seems like that guy's credibility (apparently he was a pretty heavy drinker, particularly into his retirement), along with some of the techniques used at that time, were less than stellar.

Anyway, once that DNA testing was done, I started to think maybe the Stine murder was done by someone else who then claimed to be The Zodiac.

It's unusual for a serial killer (one who kills for an internal motive) to change his colors. But in the case of The Zodiac, there's three different MOs. The first two cases were extremely similar, with young couples parked in lover's lanes shot at close range with the female taking the brunt of the damage in both cases, including a surviving male in one.

Then there's the Lake Berryessa murder, which again is a couple in a makeout spot, however this time the killer goes to a very elaborate costumed ritualized killing that includes binding and murder by knife. He also writes a message at the crime scene. If you wanted to convince me that this was a further developed version of the same killer, I'd listen. The messaging has escalated. And the ritualization escalated too. But there's still the lover's angle, and the fact that the female get's it much worse (another surviving male), and the taunting message still meets the MO.

But the Stine murder, that's a different animal all together. Being a cab driver, the element of the hunt isn't there at all. And to go from cases where the women is such an overkill focul point, to a case where there's no woman at all, to me is just bizarre. Plus the taking of the bloody shirt is a totally new element.

The fact that the DNA came from the Stine letter, to me doesn't rule out Allen from the other cases. I'm unwilling to definitively tie the cases together by handwriting analysis. It just isn't firm enough for me, but they are considered locked as a group, which makes it very hard to pin down a suspect, when all a suspect has to do is prove he wasn't there for any of one of the killings to exclude himself, and that could be done just by being true.


I know there was also evidence at the time that excluded Allen by handwriting, that was then debated by implying Allen was being purposely decieptful in his writing, and the notion that he was ambidextrous and could write differently. Then there was some that that Allen had a partner, one who at least did some of the writing and mailing. It's not a theory I prescribe to, but it's out there.

There are a ton of good Zodiac books out there, including ones that are great even though I don't believe them. San Francisco during that time is such a wild scene, that it just makes for a great setting to a literary story. There's theories out there that it's a Manson Family member, The Unabomber, a member of Anton Lavey's early group of Satanists. There's just a ton going on.

The Most Dangerous Animal of all claims it's the biological father of an adopted kid who was the result of a pretty famous crime in his own right. And LA detective Steve Hodel thinks his father, who was at the very least an eccentric genius, was not only the Zodiac, but also the Black Dhalia killer. Both books are wild reads.


It's a great case, that I doubt will ever get solved, but it's probably more interesting that way. After burning out on that case, I got pretty into The BTK case from Witchita Kansas, another unsolved case with taunting police messages. Shortly after reading through a couple books on the case, it was solved, and it was much less interesting than all the theories. Just some regular schmoe who worked for the city, probably had a bondage S&M fetish, but was super repressed because he lived in the Midwest during that time frame. Had he been from NY he probably would've just gone to leather bars. And had he come along later he probably just would've had a weird google search history. He wound up getting caught because he didn't keep up with how trackable technology was.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: I finally watched Zodiac - and I have a theory who the killer is

I had forgotten who the ISH expert on serial killers was...

Thorpesaurous, I remember reading some of your posts back in the day.

Good stuff.




I did find this part on wiki interesting:

Quote:

In 2009, a lawyer named Robert Tarbox (who, in August 1975, was disbarred by the California Supreme Court for failure to pay some clients)[88][89] said that in the early 1970s a merchant mariner walked into his office and confessed to him that he was the Zodiac Killer. The seemingly lucid seaman (whose name Tarbox would not reveal due to confidentiality) described his crimes briefly but persuasively enough to convince Tarbox. The man said he was trying to stop himself from his "opportunistic" murder spree but never returned to see Tarbox again. Tarbox took out a full-page ad in the Vallejo Times-Herald that he claimed would clear the name of Arthur Leigh Allen as a killer, his only reason for revealing the story thirty years after the fact. Robert Graysmith, the author of several books on Zodiac, said Tarbox's story was "entirely plausible".



it has to be more than one guy... has to be.

These crimes have all the fingerprints of a cult... not a solo killer.

and this cult completely mind f*cked the holy hell out of the SFPD.


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Old 08-25-2017, 04:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: I finally watched Zodiac - and I have a theory who the killer is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous

One of the things the movie gets right...


Zodiac - The Art of Obsession

watching this right now.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: I finally watched Zodiac - and I have a theory who the killer is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomsday Dallas
I had forgotten who the ISH expert on serial killers was...

Thorpesaurous, I remember reading some of your posts back in the day.

Good stuff.




I did find this part on wiki interesting:





it has to be more than one guy... has to be.

These crimes have all the fingerprints of a cult... not a solo killer.

and this cult completely mind f*cked the holy hell out of the SFPD.




I think it's pretty likely that it's three separate guys. Two of whom used the first guy as shield for getting away with their own thing. I think the Stine murder is someone else for sure, and I think the Beryessa murder is likely a third person. But I don't think they're linked. I think the second two had their own reasons and just used The Zodiac as a cover to follow their own motives.


Greysmith is so all over the place in terms of theories and evidence that you can't even follow him because he dips his toe in every pool.

The Riverside case is something totally different too.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: I finally watched Zodiac - and I have a theory who the killer is

Here's some handwriting comparison from some of the Zodiac Letters, to a known sample from Gary Stewart's biological father Earl Van Best, and a photo of him next to one of the zodiac composites. Best was in his late 20s when he married Stewart's mother who was 13, in a case eventually dubbed The Ice Cream Romance by the SF newspapers when the girl ran away with him.




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Old 08-25-2017, 04:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: I finally watched Zodiac - and I have a theory who the killer is

Listen to this interview and reads dude's book. It's pretty far out.




https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7crjU_c84LMo

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KtgLh3fImK0

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/00623...killer+bo oks
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Old 08-25-2017, 05:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: I finally watched Zodiac - and I have a theory who the killer is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous







I'll have to look into this book.

that was the last theory mentioned on wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac_Killer

Quote:
In May 2014, a book written by Gary Stewart titled, The Most Dangerous Animal of All: Searching for My Father ... and Finding the Zodiac Killer, was released, claiming his biological father, Earl Van Best, Jr., was the Zodiac Killer, without any confirmed evidence.
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