Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-21-2017, 07:34 AM   #1
Ass Dan
LOL Maker, Intraweb
 
Ass Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Dry An@l Rapist of Wack
Posts: 2,962
Default A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

I want other opinions on this to further cement my own view on this as I feel it is incomplete.

We hear a lot in the ether, especially here in America, how racial divides, constructs etc. are centered around minorities hating themselves. If you read a lot of black power literature for example, there is a central theme that the white man has taught the black man to hate his skin, to hate his hair, to hate himself. There are many other examples with Latinos, Asians, Native Americans etc.

If this is a central construct to social stratification and something implemented by whites to remain on top, how can we explain today's behavior from a large portion of the white population? By that I mean, large swatches (of mostly liberal) white people are apologetic, embarassed, ashamed of their race.

An example is there's a video going around where a female Nepalese tea shop owner is throwing rocks and threatening a British female tourist with a large stick because the tourist thought the tea was overpriced (the tourist paid, but had some words). The woman is overtly violent and putting the lady and her step son in serious peril. The comments however, overwhelmingly white people, talking down to the white woman, saying she should take her privilege elsewhere etc.

Basically almost everyone sides with violence towards the white women who simply gave her opinion. Now as I type this I cannot help but think of what is going on here in America. Are white people going to censor themselves via feeling shameful for their position in society? Or are we creating a new manner to knock white people down a peg by making them hate themselves.

I realize I only cited a few examples, but there are ample more.

is there a movement (real or perceived, and for the record I think it is perceived, but perception is reality, especially when spread through a population) to shame white people?

Silencing white people will not make the world a better place, nor will fostering a culture of shame.

My two cents.

Curious to hear yours.
Ass Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 07:38 AM   #2
nathanjizzle
Trumptard Persecutor
 
nathanjizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 13,837
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

stopped reading midway. youre basing your ideal of "racism" on self hate of minorites (blaming minorites). i can tell you are a white person that doesnt know what racism is but can only hypothesis about it.

Last edited by nathanjizzle : 09-21-2017 at 07:41 AM.
nathanjizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 08:04 AM   #3
fiddy
Raider of Rampage
 
fiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: FTS and FTO
Posts: 13,743
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

Race is nothing more than a stereotype, which is a cognitive unit. Your brain uses stereotypes all the time. People discriminate against fat, ugly, strange people and based on all kind of other physical/psychological traits. People that say that arent racists, are lying retards.
fiddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 08:30 AM   #4
hold this L
Curry 2 > 1 LeBronze
 
hold this L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,890
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ass Dan
..

If this is a central construct to social stratification and something implemented by whites to remain on top, how can we explain today's behavior from a large portion of the white population? By that I mean, large swatches (of mostly liberal) white people are apologetic, embarassed, ashamed of their race.
These people are idiots. An embarrassment to society. No body should be ashamed of their entire race. No matter the color. You should be ashamed of your actions first and foremost. After that, family. That's it. I always cringe whenever I see people like that, it seems university/colleges seem to fostering such idiots in large quantities.

Quote:
An example is there's a video going around where a female Nepalese tea shop owner is throwing rocks and threatening a British female tourist with a large stick because the tourist thought the tea was overpriced (the tourist paid, but had some words). The woman is overtly violent and putting the lady and her step son in serious peril. The comments however, overwhelmingly white people, talking down to the white woman, saying she should take her privilege elsewhere etc.
Unless you missed something important in this story, these people are even bigger mouth breathing morons.


One of my biggest pet peeves is self pity or self victimization, especially on the gross level that it is in the States and on a lesser level in Canada. Not that there's no injustice or equality is great, but it becomes an issue when that's all that's talked about. Asians are coming as immigrants and completely dominating in America by the way. They don't come with much, but they have crazy (most times extreme) to work hard and succeed, which they do in academics. They're doing far better than any race right now in America, and they don't have any special privileges.
hold this L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 08:31 AM   #5
UK2K
NBA Legend
 
UK2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 16,715
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hold this L
Asians are coming as immigrants and completely dominating in America by the way. They don't come with much, but they have crazy (most times extreme) to work hard and succeed, which they do in academics. They're doing far better than any race right now in America, and they don't have any special privileges.

Its almost like....

Something in their culture teaches them to be successful.
UK2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 08:40 AM   #6
CeltsGarlic
Gesaffelstain Fan
 
CeltsGarlic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: dungeons of rap
Posts: 7,796
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

I guess its a very stuborn topic since everyone always saying the same shit n' sticking to their opinion.
CeltsGarlic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 11:12 AM   #7
RidonKs
rank sentamentalist
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: goodbyecruelworld
Posts: 16,955
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

(post broken into 2 parts due to length)


First of all, and you probably already know this but it bears repeating: comment sections on the internet are a terrible representation of what people think. People who spend time driving that forum of dialogue are venting their frustration with the fact that they don't feel competent to take part in real world discussions in real time. Their interpretations are, 99% of the time, shallow and dumb. Furthermore, the fact that they opine so readily is indicative of their intention of ever taking part on the issues in a more meaningful way. Those comments are literally the best they can do.

As an aside, the worst crop of this behaviour that I've seen is in the chatbox during a livestream. The comments fly down one side of the screen, no one is responding to anyone else, and if you look, at least half the people are earnest expressing their opinion, even if it's just fandom or hate. It's pitiful that people so yearn for connection and community and are still so fearful of application and hardwork that this is their compensating return.

Then there is a second selective bias which we have all learned about ad nauseam about the fragmentation of popular media audiences. I suppose the story you described could go in either direction; one side thinks the shop owner is a barbarian, the other side thinks the white woman is punching down. See if you can find a comment section on the same video from a different site which expresses a different consensus of opinion.
RidonKs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 11:14 AM   #8
RidonKs
rank sentamentalist
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: goodbyecruelworld
Posts: 16,955
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

(part 2)

In response to your question, you are right. There is a culture of shame. It's not just perceived, although I'm not sure I really get the distinction you're drawing. People feel genuinely shameful. What begets shame? Actions we take on behalf of our interests which we later regret as excessive or altogether unnecessary. Is it possible to feel shameful on behalf of a collective? Well if you believe in the self-evident phenomenon of groupthink and mob mentality, not to mention more charitable notions such as collective identity and kinship, then it seems very possible for that sentiment to spread from a genuinely emotional starting point. It spreads just the same as vengeance, it's polar opposite.

Reducing it to race probably isn't a very helpful way to understand the phenomenon. The coalition of allies against oppression, or competitors in the Victimhood Olympics depending on your viewpoint, consists of a variety of status grievances, of which race is easily the most inconsequential. Compared to sex biology politics, religious culture politics, mental health politics; race is just pigment and doesn't matter much.

What you said is true about literature on black power, though I believe those race-based movements were mostly stealing ideas conceived by anti-colonial resistance movements. Franz Fanon is the most famous example of a writer who tried to convey the feeling of having every thought and consideration on one's identity undermined by systematic repression and domination. I tend to think he was using his black skin as a metaphor for the most part. Virtually nothing has more magnetism for the human psyche than white light and dark shadow, and so he overused that recognizable contrast to make his point.



But back to the larger point, I have begged a question: are people right to feel shameful or have they been duped by a hyped up narrative? There's no answer to that question, or at least, discounting some pre-conceived philosophical outlook, it looks like there's good evidence for either side.

Academia in sociology and, to a lesser extend, psychology is just pleading to be taken seriously by independent thinkers. The consensus is that the average joe, black or white, male or female, christian or islamic, feels personally neutered when the group they associate with is regarded as inferior or defective by the culture at large. Maybe they should just forget about collective identity and focus on improving themselves; the point is that they don't and never have and never will.

On the other hand, the very best literature and philosophy speaks the truth quite differently. The conflicted human heart cannot be consoled by material realizations or technical problem solving or still less victory over some intangible unseen force like "internal bias"; it is our job as human beings to rise above shame and only then attain perfect freedom. You expressed just as much, presumably out of simple intuition, at the end of your post. Generally speaking shame is utterly useless, to the extent that it fails in its call to action, which is its real purpose. Choosing that action is impossible without knowing what combination of pride or shame will follow, which is the sticky situation of idle brooding, and the only resolute response to the madness is a random tactic of trial and error. From there you await the shame you expect from any action you take and then try to understand it on its merit (the realm of literature) or try to understand the merit itself (the realm of philosophy). Perhaps that's the cyclic process of life from which you only gain redemption once are past the point of caring for it. So you get tired and die.



But again there is a new core of inquiry to tackle, having only just pealed off the layer off the last: regardless of the chicken/egg scenario described above, why are we currently in a culture of shame?

There are lots of reasons which pile one atop the next, and the further down the stack you go, the less I can tell you. The most vivid explanations to the untrained eye are the ones you hear from the self-professed free thinkers; we are losing the battle of ideas, we must rescue liberal values from emotional instinct, something about the logos and the indispensable tenets of western civilization. In my opinion, that's mostly self-flattery and deceit. So here's my best guess.

First, it mostly stems from boredom and apathy. In my opinion, those are the feelings most anathema to human wellbeing. You need to do something enough so that you care about it, or you need to care about something enough to act on it; and that's probably a distinction without a difference.

One thing is certain: the very most obvious cause of boredom and apathy and a general restlessness is wealth. Being self-sufficient makes it easy to get distracted by things you don't really care about and lose sight of what made you excited to be alive in the first place. You and I and almost everyone with the privilege to talk hoops on a messageboard are at the cream of the crop in terms of economic wellbeing. We are living in the immediate aftermath of an imperial zenith which put us on top of the world.

This brings us to an historical context which is the imperative I have been driving toward, but which ought not break new light; again, this stuff is spread wide and far across the popular culture.

What happens once you reach the top? First and foremost you stop reaching. What once enticed turns common place. The exuberant vigor which strove you turns into an ecstasy of emotional self congratulation. This is why I tried and now I made it. So now what?

Well we are living in "now what" and it's not easy. We live in a society of decline. If you want get at the roots of your inquiry into shame, I think you'll find a lot of highlights in the rear window and no directions to move forward. We feel shameful because we are sitting at the top of a mountain we had no hand in climbing. We were born post-determination, post-strife, post-success. We had no hand in it.

Which alludes to yet another explanation of what we now see: what better option do we have except to assemble our own collective identities on the basis of kinship with ancestors we barely or never knew, as a way to piggyback onto their struggle to reach the very top of the ladder for domination of the globe, a fight again of which we played no part?



Quote:
I guess its a very stuborn topic since everyone always saying the same shit n' sticking to their opinion.
After all that, I maintain this is probably your safest conclusion. But well done Ass Dan, this was an unusually conscientious post for you

It wasn't racist at all by the way. You knew that, and however consciously, you decided to satirize your own thread with an homage to and then a parenthetical retraction of the very shame it tries to address.
RidonKs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 10:51 PM   #9
Ass Dan
LOL Maker, Intraweb
 
Ass Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Dry An@l Rapist of Wack
Posts: 2,962
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

Great reply RidonKs.

I think we are socially in a bad place, with a lot of bac actors, and bad representatives of each viewpoint.

We are losing track of what got us here and what keeps us here.

We need to change.
Ass Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 10:59 PM   #10
Ass Dan
LOL Maker, Intraweb
 
Ass Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Dry An@l Rapist of Wack
Posts: 2,962
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UK2K
Its almost like....

Something in their culture teaches them to be successful.


This is 100% true.

I live in Orange County which is probably the global mecca for successful Asian immigrants and a lot of my friends are successful Asian immigrants.

There are common familial threads from East Asia and the Asian Subcontinent:

1-strong paternal influence to the point of causing some psychological damage.
2-family is intact, its family first, last and always.
3-tons of after school study class, summer study class, 12 months a year, taking classes.
4-pressure to not embarass your homeland or family.
5-lots of competition and rivalry between Asian countries.
6-zero tolerance for frivelous pursuits.
7-father knows best.
8-never rest on your laurels.
9-eldest son often deified but with this comes enormous pressure.

This is why Asians achieve success in the US in my opinion. And I base this from witnessing it first hand.

The weakness in this approach is that many lack the social skills and the EQ to get the top jobs. Not because of a flaw, its because they simply don't get the reps socially that many other kids do and are not as smooth as a result. You need to be social to get to the top.

OF COURSE there are exceptions to what I posted, and I am generalizing, but there is a common thread there.
Ass Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 01:49 PM   #11
NumberSix
Big Booty Hoes!!
 
NumberSix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Internets
Posts: 26,589
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ass Dan
This is 100% true.

I live in Orange County which is probably the global mecca for successful Asian immigrants and a lot of my friends are successful Asian immigrants.

There are common familial threads from East Asia and the Asian Subcontinent:

1-strong paternal influence to the point of causing some psychological damage.
2-family is intact, its family first, last and always.
3-tons of after school study class, summer study class, 12 months a year, taking classes.
4-pressure to not embarass your homeland or family.
5-lots of competition and rivalry between Asian countries.
6-zero tolerance for frivelous pursuits.
7-father knows best.
8-never rest on your laurels.
9-eldest son often deified but with this comes enormous pressure.

This is why Asians achieve success in the US in my opinion. And I base this from witnessing it first hand.
Would you also agree that cultural values are why whites are more successful than other groups?
NumberSix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 07:18 PM   #12
poido123
Down with GLOBALISM
 
poido123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,550
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
Would you also agree that cultural values are why whites are more successful than other groups?


Whites often get on with things, don't get caught up in petty victim narratives.


It's no coincidence that whites have the most civilised and advanced societies in the world.
poido123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2017, 04:43 AM   #13
Ass Dan
LOL Maker, Intraweb
 
Ass Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Dry An@l Rapist of Wack
Posts: 2,962
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poido123
Whites often get on with things, don't get caught up in petty victim narratives.


It's no coincidence that whites have the most civilised and advanced societies in the world.


Not so much now.
Ass Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2017, 08:21 AM   #14
Ass Dan
LOL Maker, Intraweb
 
Ass Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Dry An@l Rapist of Wack
Posts: 2,962
Default Re: A Totally (or is it?) Racist, but Sincere Query.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjizzle
stopped reading midway. youre basing your ideal of "racism" on self hate of minorites (blaming minorites). i can tell you are a white person that doesnt know what racism is but can only hypothesis about it.

then you are a f*cking idiot.

you probably did the same in school, in your free time and in life.

lazy, and always stopping short. YOU are the problem in today's society.

Sorry, its true. lazy good for nothing, know it all, casting aspersions in all directions.
Ass Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:04 AM.




NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy