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Old 09-26-2017, 09:02 AM   #16
HylianNightmare
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

Bad look
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:31 AM   #17
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Sounds like they may have to use him like the Clippers used Bill Walton. Play him 2 games a week max no matter if hes feeling great or not. Tell him his seasons are 55 games max till hes right....if he ever is.

May be for the greater good.

I wonder how many serious injuries to greats would have been avoided if players/teams took the "**** the fans...." approach they seem willing to take now to avoid injury.

At the very least Walton, Grant Hill, and Penny should have been allowed/encouraged to rest a lot more when they got hurt. Walton and Penny flat out said they didn't think people believed they were ever hurt because it didn't stand out on xrays till it was to late. Hill mentioned that he was pressured to play on his already bad ankle/feet for the Pistons because everyone said the Bad Boy era guys would have played through it...

At some point we gotta stop that line of thinking and see the big picture I guess. Some of these people just aren't built for 15 years of 82 game seasons.

I wouldn't be surprised if in the future teams start quietly scheduling 60 game seasons in advance for players thought to be fragile. Sucks as a paying customer attending games.....but I do wish someone got out ahead of Brandon Roy. Roy, Penny, Hill, Walton, and I think Webber too all rushed back from injury for playoff games and it cost the entire NBA. Derrick Rose missed like half of 2012 with various lower body injuries and hes in a game up 12 or so with a minute to go vs a team we could have beat without him? NBA loses its brightest young star...and never got him back.

This new era of twinkie filling soft stars and cautious teams may truly be for the greater good even if it makes us wish for the days of Stockton being out there for 15 years in a row or Isiah Thomas and Allen Iverson having to be damn near restrained by team doctors to keep them off the court. They once had to come take Iversons jersey pregame trying to force him to sit and he went and bought his own jersey from the team store....

Its respectable. But heart like that probably costs us a lot of great basketball players. Bit of a balancing act is needed.

Id say back...feet....knees...ankles...sit that guy no matter what he thinks. **** the playoff run. Especially these teams that aren't winning anyway.

The Pistons had Grant barely able to walk pressuring him to play a series that didn't matter....we lose a potential all time great.

At least when the Blazers had the team doctors lie to Walton about being ok they were probably gonna win the title if he were healthy. But then his foot literally splits in two on a rebound and we lose a potential top 15 all time player...who was ALREADY injury prone. They knew he was brittle. But he was highly paid so they lied to make him play through it. Which is why he hated the team and sued.

You cant expect these guys to all play the hero. There aren't that many supermen. Some people are just Batman. Amazing...but human. They break.

Who wins big picture wise if Joel tries to gut it out for 82 games and Waltons himself?

**** it. Shoot for 60 games of healthy ball.
Man, fantastic post... Honestly changed my whole perspective on this.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:35 AM   #18
Kblaze8855
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

Ive softened on it over the years. It still annoys me to see guys sit when healthy but on the other hand.....who am I to say how someone feels?

Reading shit like this:




Quote:
So much so that Hill, ever the professional, likely ruined his career in order to avoid of-their-day charges that he was taking it easy in his potential final days as a Piston. Detroit was in the running for a playoff spot deep in the 1999-00 season when Hill came up lame with an ankle injury, and immediately the on-record catcalls wondered aloud as to the severity of the injury, and whether or not it was just the free-agent-to-be's way of guarding himself as the big pay day approached in the summertime.

It wasn't, Hill attempted to deflect criticism by playing through the injury during a playoff series against Miami, and instead he injured the ankle more severely as a result. He then returned from injury way too early in an attempt to stave off the same criticism after joining the Orlando Magic the following summer, he barely played the rest of the decade, and he's still a little wary of those final few months in Michigan.

From Jason Whitlock's podcast, via Piston Powered:


"I (had been) told everything was fine. I even found out that certain team doctors were questioning whether I was really hurt, thinking I was soft or whatever. This was after I had pulled myself from Game 2 against the Heat. At that time, when I found out I had broken my ankle, as crazy as this sounds, I was relieved. I finally had some confirmation, I finally had proof that I'm really not making it up."

It's a shame that nobody seems to remember the genesis of what essentially put the kibosh on Hill's career. The pressure on him to not appear as if he had a case of senioritis was so great that he limped through an NBC-aired game against Philadelphia with what was obviously an ankle injury that needed weeks to heal, but the criticism about his impending free agency (a turn he did absolutely nothing to promote in-season, unlike James) was so strong that Hill played on.


Its a shame how guys get pressure from outside to play...when they know they arent right.

Whole time Rose was out I keep hearing "Doctors say hes fine....he should play" while hes making it clear that he doesn't feel fine. He finally comes back....still saying hes not where he wants to be. 10 games in...out for another season.. And we have another Grant Hill.

Why?

What good came out the whole sports world pressuring him to return? We just lost a decade of one of the best young guards we had seen in years.

If a guy thinks he isn't right for two years? **** it. Take two years. Play when you feel its time. Play every other game. Knee feels odd...sit your ass down. How many injuries have come of guys feeling off....and over compensating hurting the other leg?

We don't need more preventable horror stories for guys to prove they aren't soft. Larry Johnson was out playing through a bad knee and a bad back that never got to heal. He would deny he was even hurt till after it got out of hand. He was ****ed up in 1994 and just played it off for years. Ruined his whole career.

Your hand hurts? **** that. We pay you 20 million dollars and its the playoffs. Your knee is bad? Your ankle is popping? Your foot is killing you? Back hurts all the time in your 20s?

Ok. Lets think this out....

Is this game/series worth losing a 150 million dollar investment?

Probably not.

These guys have to be more selfish. Its really...best for all of us. Sounds odd but it is.

Grant Hill, Rose, Penny, Roy, Walton, and the rest? They should have told the fans to eat a dick. The fans themselves would have more entertainment out of it long term.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:01 AM   #19
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

Trust the process.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:08 AM   #20
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

I don't know why people get injured more and more nowadays. Happens in every sport. Baseball they used to pitch 300 innings with ease Nowadays pitcher's arms fall off if they go 200.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:20 AM   #21
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

Quote:
Originally Posted by imdaman99
I don't know why people get injured more and more nowadays. Happens in every sport. Baseball they used to pitch 300 innings with ease Nowadays pitcher's arms fall off if they go 200.

I think that added muscle can lead to the body breaking down faster... sure it's going to help in certain aspects of contact sports as it pertains to staying healthy short term but in terms of long term durability all that extra muscle just has to wear on tendons and joints.

There are of course exceptions with guys that are complete freaks and take care of their bodies to insane degrees but that's he overarching difference between eras imo.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:21 AM   #22
Meticode
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

Personally I've never counted on him a full season until he's actually done it.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

i think most people will be happy with 50 games per season + playoffs for his career

would be the biggest 'what if' in history if he doesnt stay healthy.. even bigger than grant hill.. legit had/has potential to be better than hakeem
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:40 AM   #24
Meticode
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

Quote:
Originally Posted by alenleomessi
i think most people will be happy with 50 games per season + playoffs for his career

would be the biggest 'what if' in history if he doesnt stay healthy.. even bigger than grant hill.. legit had/has potential to be better than hakeem
It's all opinoin. Bill Walton had the talent and skill to be better than Hakeem, but injuries just stole that from him. A couple of players who never made it to the NBA that had that ability as well.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:58 AM   #25
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

Quote:
Originally Posted by imdaman99
I don't know why people get injured more and more nowadays. Happens in every sport. Baseball they used to pitch 300 innings with ease Nowadays pitcher's arms fall off if they go 200.
Added muscle. Tom Brady is 40 and still in great shape. He didnt abuse the weight room and mostly does resistance work. Some people body can't deal with all that weight and Muscle. Some of them also don't stretch enough and eat right like a maniac.thats why LJ is a freak his body is crazy, but even he lost weight in his 30s to become more leaner. They also say LJ spends over 2 million dollars a year on his health.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:25 PM   #26
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

Tom Brady has not eaten anything processed in 10 years, the only fat that gets into his system is from avocados, he keeps a cryo-genic recovery chamber in his house, and goes to bed at 8:30 every night in specially designed recovery underwear. He takes care of his body like his supermodel wife takes care of hers. If youre willing to live like Tom Brady or Ray Allen you can maintain for a long time. Most people aren't.

Derrick Rose was known for eating so much candy that skittles sent him a personal dispenser for his bedroom.

Apparently he's grown up but it takes a while. The people who come in taking care of themselves are just way less prone to these problems.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:41 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

Quote:
Originally Posted by imdaman99
I don't know why people get injured more and more nowadays. Happens in every sport. Baseball they used to pitch 300 innings with ease Nowadays pitcher's arms fall off if they go 200.
Where's the proof that people get injured more nowadays?
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:04 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1941297/

Figure 1 shows time trends in game and practice injury rates from 19881989 to 20032004 for all the 15 sports combined. Time trends show that game injury rates varied somewhat from 19881989 through 19951996 and leveled out for the remaining years, while practice injury rates demonstrated a more stable course. No statistically significant increases or decreases in game ( P = .78) or practice ( P = .70) injury rates occurred over the 16-year sample period.

If you read that entire paper it basically boils down to better detection rates than in the past.

There is also evidence that if you specialize in only 1 sport during your youth you'll be more susceptible to significant injuries down the line and faster "burn out"
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:51 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchesk
The 82 game should be done away with in favor a 60 game one. The games would mean more, you could get rid of double headers, there would be less coasting and resting players.

But then that means less $$ for the owners, so it won't happen.
100% this!
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ouch... Sixers' Joel Embiid: "Don't count on me for a full season"

The Sixers should be trying really hard to trade this dude while he still has value.
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