Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-29-2017, 01:25 PM   #61
fourkicks44
Sixers' Hype Man
 
fourkicks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Super Dario World
Posts: 1,985
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Offensive rebounds, bitches.
fourkicks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 08:22 PM   #62
Round Mound
NBA rookie of the year
 
Round Mound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieSteve
There isn't a single player to whom Barkley's best 5 years don't compare very favorably with. They crap all over Malone's and Robinson's best 5 years. And they are superior (offensively at least) to Hakeem's and Shaq's.

Let's look at it this way.

From the start of the 86 playoffs to the end of the 91 playoffs (5 regular seasons and 5 post seasons) Barkley averaged 25.9ppg on .599%eFG and .652%TS, to go with 4.8orpg, 7.5drpg 4.1apg, 1.6spg, 1.0bpg and 3.6tov.

Durant has clearly been the most elite offensive player in the league over the last 5 years. So, for comparison, what's his line over his last 5 regular and post seasons combined? Well it's 28.5ppg on .561%eFG and .630%TS, 0.7orpg, 7.1drpg, 4.8apg, 1.2spg, 1.2bpg and 3.2tov.

According to bball-ref's usage formula Barkley used 23.5 offensive possessions per game over this stretch, while Durant has used 25.8. BUT Barkley also grabbed 4.1 more offensive boards a game. The net result is that Durant uses up 6.5 more offensive possessions a game than prime Barkley for a measly 2.5 points. Prime Barkley was an offensive force superior to anyone in the game today. Without question.


Barkley just didn't get to bring his peak level to the Finals because his 2nd options were players like Mike Gminksi and Hersey Hawkins. The only season in Philly that he did have a decent shot at title run, Moses went down before the playoffs, which left him with 36yo Dr J and a decent Mo Cheeks, but nothing like a contending team.

Round Mound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 08:23 PM   #63
Round Mound
NBA rookie of the year
 
Round Mound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieSteve
If Barkley took 11.2 more shots a game and made just 3.5 of them (32%) he'd have had 35.4 a game. That's without drawing any fouls or making any 3's. If he actually chose to take that many shots, it is obvious he'd be scoring over 40 a game. Any one can see that.

Kobe had more assists, because he was a guard and had the ball in his hands a lot more. You know that. Pick any great SG... Kobe will average less assists. Pick any great PF... There are maybe two all time (KG and Webber) who got more assists than Barkley.

EDIT: In actual fact, Barkley could just have taken 11.2 more 3 pointers a game, made 25% of them, and he'd have had 37 points a game. Would that have made him a better scorer than Kobe? He'd have more points on better efficiency. Keen to hear your answer.

Round Mound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 08:33 PM   #64
AussieSteve
Dunking on everybody in the park
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 672
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj1987
That's not how basketball works. You need to factor in defenses trying to stop after you start scoring a bunch and then you have fatigue as well. Players would probably need another ~10 minutes to put up those shots and if they're already playing ~36 MPG, it brings up their total time played to 46 MPG. How many games would they last?

Answered above. Dude to him being overweight, dude would've lasted probably 25-30 games a season with that kind of load.

What you're saying makes no sense. All he would have needed to do was take the 15--18 ft jumper every time his defender gave it to him. If he makes 40% of these then he's outscoring kobe on fewer shots with no extra effort or time on court required.
AussieSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 08:59 PM   #65
RRR3
Youth is Wasted...
 
RRR3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: ...On the Young
Posts: 19,750
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Barkley's best years are definitely statistically superior to Malone's but no way do they "crap all over Robinson's 5 best". D-Rob's stats are ridiculous.
RRR3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 09:02 PM   #66
AussieSteve
Dunking on everybody in the park
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 672
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR3
Barkley's best years are definitely statistically superior to Malone's but no way do they "crap all over Robinson's 5 best". D-Rob's stats are ridiculous.

RS + PO combined though.
AussieSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 09:08 PM   #67
RRR3
Youth is Wasted...
 
RRR3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: ...On the Young
Posts: 19,750
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieSteve
RS + PO combined though.
D-Rob had some really good playoffs, stats wise at least. Wasn't watching back then I was either not alive or a toddler lol
RRR3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 09:22 PM   #68
AussieSteve
Dunking on everybody in the park
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 672
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR3
D-Rob had some really good playoffs, stats wise at least. Wasn't watching back then I was either not alive or a toddler lol

Even stats wise tho... less points, rebounds, assists, steals than Barkley and way lower efficiency. Obviously huge edge on D though.
AussieSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 04:20 AM   #69
aj1987
MH!
 
aj1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 17,068
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieSteve
What you're saying makes no sense. All he would have needed to do was take the 15--18 ft jumper every time his defender gave it to him. If he makes 40% of these then he's outscoring kobe on fewer shots with no extra effort or time on court required.
What you're saying is that a player upping his FGA's by ~10 shots a game would see no additional fatigue?

Have you actually ever touched... heck, watched a game of basketball in your life?

Let me try again. Barkley took 18 shots in 38 MPG and that's his most. IF you factor in another additional 10 shots a game, that's over 55% of his scoring load that he already has. Over an entire season. Every single game. As I said, dude would last like 30 games a season.

For the final time, you just can't extrapolate stats like you're doing right now.

Last edited by aj1987 : 09-30-2017 at 04:23 AM.
aj1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 04:44 AM   #70
tanibanana
Decent playground baller
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 333
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieSteve
Sure, as long as you recognize the difference between greater career and better player.

There is no way that Malone or DRob were better players than peak Barkley. Would you seriously pick them over Chuck to win you a game of basketball?

Is'nt it only fair and logical that the player with the better career be considered the better player. Unless we differ in understanding what is "a better career".
tanibanana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 05:23 AM   #71
Round Mound
NBA rookie of the year
 
Round Mound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Better Career, Team Achievements, Better Longevity etc of crap.

Broken Down Stats Tell Closer To The Truth Of How Efficient, Effective and Dominant a Player Was.

Barkley Was More Efficient, Effective and Dominant than Kobe Was. Thats a Fact

Kobe Has MJ On Longevity Too But All Broken Down Stats Put MJ as Number 1 and Barkley Closer To MJ than Kobe.

Last edited by Round Mound : 09-30-2017 at 05:35 AM.
Round Mound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 06:02 AM   #72
AussieSteve
Dunking on everybody in the park
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 672
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj1987
What you're saying is that a player upping his FGA's by ~10 shots a game would see no additional fatigue?

Have you actually ever touched... heck, watched a game of basketball in your life?

Let me try again. Barkley took 18 shots in 38 MPG and that's his most. IF you factor in another additional 10 shots a game, that's over 55% of his scoring load that he already has. Over an entire season. Every single game. As I said, dude would last like 30 games a season.

For the final time, you just can't extrapolate stats like you're doing right now.

What I am saying is this.

Barkley gets the ball >15 ft out. His defender sags off him because if he doesn't, Chuck is getting to the rim. There's a jumper there for the taking if Barkley wants it. He normally would not take that jumper. Usually he'd either pass it off and work to get the ball again in a better position, or he'd put the ball on the floor and back it in till either the double came or he found an opening to get a good shot off. If he takes that jumper every time instead, and makes it 40% of the time, he's scoring more than Kobe on fewer shots.

And if anything he'd be saving energy, because instead of backing in a 7 footer and then battling him for the offensive board, he's settled for the jumper.
AussieSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 09:40 PM   #73
aj1987
MH!
 
aj1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 17,068
Default Re: All These Barkley Posts Got To Stop - Malone,Hakeem,Robinson,Shaq, > Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieSteve
What I am saying is this.

Barkley gets the ball >15 ft out. His defender sags off him because if he doesn't, Chuck is getting to the rim. There's a jumper there for the taking if Barkley wants it. He normally would not take that jumper. Usually he'd either pass it off and work to get the ball again in a better position, or he'd put the ball on the floor and back it in till either the double came or he found an opening to get a good shot off. If he takes that jumper every time instead, and makes it 40% of the time, he's scoring more than Kobe on fewer shots.

And if anything he'd be saving energy, because instead of backing in a 7 footer and then battling him for the offensive board, he's settled for the jumper.
aj1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:11 PM.




NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy