Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-03-2017, 12:17 PM   #61
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 16,303
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

Making everybody work out three times a week would save lives but as I said I'm not talking about legislating anything that only affects you internally.

And no I'm not worried about knives and I've explained why many times. Guns and easily used projectile weapons in general make otherwise easily contained psychos too great of a threat.

A weakling coward plus the right set of guns is a weapon of mass destruction.

I was sitting up helping a woman study to pass a test to be licensed to draw blood. She worked on it for two years. Why? Because you don't know what you're doing you could hurt somebody. But when she wanted an AR 15 you know what I had to do? Drive her to the store. They didn't ask if she knew how to use it or what her intentions were. They didn't show her where the safety was or anything.

And do you know what they said when we first went up there and she had left her ID at home? They asked if I had mine and they could check me knowing I intended to give it to her.

They will send federal agents to stop you from selling cheese made from unpasteurized milk in America but I can go buy 15 guns before the end of my lunch break without showing an ID.

I can't sell scrap copper to the junkyard without a license but I can sell a shotgun.

I'm a licensed by the state to train people to operate about six kinds of forklift equipment. I have to fill out an eight page form to let any of my minions drive a forklift. I watched one sell a gun to another one out of the back of his pick up truck.

The resistance people put up to expanding regulations on guns is amazing to me considering how much we accept in the name of safety in our day-to-day life.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 12:29 PM   #62
Orlando Magic
NBA sixth man of the year
 
Orlando Magic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,894
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

I agree with all of those points.
Orlando Magic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 02:05 PM   #63
KyrieTheFuture
NBA sixth man of the year
 
KyrieTheFuture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,733
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UK2K
More than half of 'gun deaths' each year are suicides.

So in any given year, you're looking at 8k - 12k deaths due to firearm violence each year. In a country of 330 million people.

That's 0.00003% of the country.

This most recent event spotlights gun ownership in America because of the amount of deaths in such a short period of time, but...

There were 57 people killed and 273 shot in just the city of Chicago over the last month. Its crazy to see '500 wounded' after an event like we saw in Vegas, but that's not all that unusual from your typical month in Chicago. It just happened in one night.

I don't think random civilians need to own full auto rifles, because they're just not practical. There's really no benefit to using them, on the battlefield, or otherwise. I don't think civilians should own silencers because, again, it's not practical.

But I do think every one (within reason) who desires should be able to own a rifle, shotgun, or pistol if they so choose.
Perhaps this has been addressed already but why does anyone need to own more than one gun?
KyrieTheFuture is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 02:19 PM   #64
Patrick Chewing
O.G. Shot Caller
 
Patrick Chewing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 16,172
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyrieTheFuture
Perhaps this has been addressed already but why does anyone need to own more than one gun?


Same reason people own over a hundred different pairs of sneakers.
Patrick Chewing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 02:21 PM   #65
KyrieTheFuture
NBA sixth man of the year
 
KyrieTheFuture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,733
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chewing
Same reason people own over a hundred different pairs of sneakers.
So, because they're dumb and waste money?
KyrieTheFuture is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 02:24 PM   #66
UK2K
NBA Legend
 
UK2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 16,693
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyrieTheFuture
Perhaps this has been addressed already but why does anyone need to own more than one gun?

I have three hand guns in my house and a rifle. The handguns are in my bedside table, the living room, and in the hallway.

Because in the event someone kicks in my back door and I'm not home, I want my fiance to have access to something to defend herself. If shes downstairs, the living room is quick. If shes upstairs, there's two pistols there.

Then you've got shotgun(s), if you hunt. Rifles if you hunt. Some may be antiques. Some may be for range, some may be for stopping power. On the two occasions I went hunting, we took a little Mini 14 Ranch Rifle and one of my Glocks, just in case (bears and big cats aren't uncommon).

But then again, some people just like to collect.
UK2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 02:27 PM   #67
Patrick Chewing
O.G. Shot Caller
 
Patrick Chewing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 16,172
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyrieTheFuture
So, because they're dumb and waste money?


Because they can. Because it's a free country. What you or I think of them is purely opinion.
Patrick Chewing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 02:53 PM   #68
Pushxx
Pushxx
 
Pushxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 4,921
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

Team freedom 100%.
Pushxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 03:02 PM   #69
Doctor K
Avengers Assemble!
 
Doctor K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,314
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
An argument we had here once led me to the belief that plenty of laws could be passed to limit gun tragedies. Mostly safety related....some with harsher penalties for felons found with guns...an expanded "No guns" list along the lines of a no fly list with a higher standard of proof. Life on a no guns list for anyone found to have their gun in the hand of a child under 10 who hurt someone with it. Universal background checks and safety courses. Greatly increased taxes on sales of guns and ammo which drive the price up and over time(decades) reduce access to low level criminals who cant afford to shop the emerging black market.

There are a dozen things you could do that would save lives. Eventually most anyone you speak to would accept that. But what I run into....is that we are supposedly a nation of freedom and individual freedom comes before the hypothetical greater good. For example...smoking. Greater good if nobody smoked? Sure. Who is pro cancer? But...you cant take peoples freedom to choose(apparently you CAN take their freedom to smoke other plants but thats another topic).

Could you legislate away a psycho getting his hands on a gun? No. Could you make them harder to get? Harder to own large numbers of? More expensive to deal in? Sure. You would save tens of thousands of people. If you think thats an exaggeration....look at the numbers. Imagine a 10% drop over your entire lifetime. There would be hundreds of thousands...millions of lives saved longterm. Drop a tragedy from 19 lives to 6. Keep a gang member in jail an extra 2 years for having a gun as a felon. You WOULD save lives.

Lets say you passed a law saying anyone caught with kids under 6 in a car without a car seat gets 90 days in jail per kid after a 6 month adjustment period during which the poor could get free seats from the DMV. What exactly would happen? 100% of us know...less kids would be killed in car accidents. Not an opinion. A fact.

Does that outweigh the somewhat draconian law?

The problem when it comes to guns is you cant take political credit for tragic situations prevented. But you can lose your seat when you push for these laws and some nut shoots up a state fair anyway. People wouldnt think long.

How many lives do you think the 1934 firearms act saved by limiting gun access to violent felons? We still lose too many people....but how do you account for lives not lost?

Where do you come down?

Lean towards over reaching laws that prevent many kids being shot in the face....even if not totally eliminating it?

Giving people as much freedom as possible even at the cost of innocent lives?

Is there really a third option?

We all just make peace with a certain level of violence we are prepared to accept so most of us arent inconvenienced. To take it back to cars....

Nascar style restraints in every car save thousands of lives. But it would be annoying so....you wouldnt pass that law.

When it comes to guns where is the line? Have we already reached it? We gonna just accept that while we could save lives....it would cost too much freedom?

The NRA is already fighting to give felons their gun rights. They would lose it at the idea of a no guns list for the criminally negligent or taxing guns like cigarettes to drive up the price and price out low level criminals.

They would go all "Its our right as Americans....." and maybe it is.

But where is the line?

And more importantly...in the real world...could a politician survive pushing for drastic life saving changes once a few more tragedies roll in? We all know that even people smart enough to know they would be reduced long term...would still use their existence to say gun control is a failure.

Knowing that....does all this talk even matter?

They say its not the time to talk about it after these things happen....but then you never get to it because they happen every 2-3 months now.

They just putting off the greater good out of political fear?

The people who really put in these changes eventually just have to accept that most are getting voted out for it. Especially anyone in a red state. It would cost too much personally to do the right thing...so how do we expect them to?

If we wont accept taking 2 minutes to put on much safer seatbelts to....live? How do we expect someone to risk their career to save abstract lives? Or to sit through a mandatory safety class when they are already safe...so some other idiot doesnt get his baby girl killed by his 6 year old?

Im generally one to lean towards societal safety...but the freedom champions arent entirely unreasonable.

Where do you fall?




The key difference here is harm to others vs, harm to yourself (or people you are responsible by law). We need to be more strict on harm people can do to other people vs. harm you can do to yourself. This is why wearing a seatbelt or not is not that highly regulated because its a risk you yourself are taking and accepting. Whereas guns can be used to harm others and should be more tightly regulated.

Smoking you bring up is a great example. You can still smoke and choose to harm yourself that is your decision and we don't have tight regulations over it. But look in the past 20 years, smoking in public places, or harm that can be done to others, has had much tighter laws and is pretty much banned now. Again, it comes down to harming others vs. harming yourself.


Tighten rules around thins that can be used to harm others. And not so tight around things that can be used to harm yourself. So pro-freedom, but as long as it only pertains to you and not endangers others safety.
Doctor K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 04:00 PM   #70
Doomsday Dallas
2017/18 SB Champs
 
Doomsday Dallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: teXas
Posts: 16,129
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

The only thing this tragedy exposed is how stupid Americans are.





The United States of America

Doomsday Dallas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 06:56 PM   #71
Hawker
Repeal FATCA
 
Hawker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,850
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

Why do we need IDs for guns and not for voting?
Hawker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 07:05 PM   #72
Hawker
Repeal FATCA
 
Hawker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,850
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by r15mohd
lol at your assuming. the vegas scenario is but a few days old but you, being the psychiatrist/psychologist you are, have already given the result in him checking out? let the facts run itself before indicating such

him purchasing so many firearms in general is reason for a "watch" on him, him being able to purchase so many semi-auto guns, as well is another indicator.

background check should not be a one and done deal...it is a renewable privalege, every 3-5yr? a standard of course based on adequate studies. if you trip off and do feel to commit a mass murder, guess what, something was done to actually prevent it. nothing is ever 100% preventable, however we can take steps to get as close as possible in making it so...whether it be 75% or 99%, pretty sure it's an improvement to what it is now.

and again, all you're doing is deflecting...you keep saying this wont work or that's a bad idea, yet no evidence to prove it -- i've given you studies that show mental screening has denied more applicants for firearms, theres also the NOLA initiatives as a way to prevent these instances.

what do you have to offer other than downplay doing more? full of excuses so far

Why is that an indicator? What you're suggestion is an abridgement of the fourth amendment of the constitution. This is exactly what pro-gun people like myself bring up about gun control advocates that you want to continue to give the government more and more power to control over the individual.
Hawker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 07:06 PM   #73
Hawker
Repeal FATCA
 
Hawker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,850
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyrieTheFuture
Perhaps this has been addressed already but why does anyone need to own more than one gun?

Why do you need to smoke weed?
Hawker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 07:13 PM   #74
eliteballer
Very good NBA starter
 
eliteballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,007
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

It doesn't have to be one or the other.

It's not like we live in a purely capitalistic society. We have a lot of laws and regulations for business/economy.

Civilians don't need access to automatic weapons, or dozens of firearms period.

Ban autos and ban owning more than 3 firearms.

Americans own 50% of the civilian firearms in the world and we're like 4% of the population.
eliteballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 07:16 PM   #75
eliteballer
Very good NBA starter
 
eliteballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,007
Default Re: Are you team safety or team personal freedoms?

Quote:
Australia's Lessons on Gun Control

The 1996 Port Arthur massacre resulted in legislation that saw a dramatic decline in gun crimes.

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...ontrol/541710/
eliteballer is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:17 AM.




NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy