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Old 11-09-2017, 05:33 PM   #31
UK2K
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Default Re: How does a politician reduce the deficit?

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Originally Posted by bdreason
Local dealers have already been priced out of the market by mass production, and the prices continue to fall. Maybe high school kids still buy from local dealers.

Go on...

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There will be a 15 percent “excise tax” on marijuana sales state-wide. Add state and local taxes of 7.75 percent in the city of San Diego, plus another 5 percent marijuana tax, approved by San Diego voters, last year.

That “Cannabis Business Tax” will increase to eight percent on July 1, 2019, and the city council can increase the tax to a maximum of 15 percent at any time after July 2019.

Cunningham said research reveals that taxes of up to 50 percent on marijuana now sold legally in other states has pushed some users to buy their pot from illegal dispensaries or street dealers, who don’t pay taxes, and have lower, or no, overhead costs.

He pointed to studies that show a tax rate of 33 percent in Colorado has hindered that state’s effort to wipe out the black market for marijuana.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...454847153.html
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:49 PM   #32
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Default Re: How does a politician reduce the deficit?

even if there was zero tax there would still be cheaper "illegal" marijuana. it will virtually always be cheaper to grow your own marijuana than buy it in a store, just like its cheaper to grow cucumbers or tomatoes at home than buy them. the black market will always have less overhead than the legal market.

we have had legal weed for several years here in oregon, and while the black market still exists here, the price for a black market ounce has dropped from ~$220ish pre-legalization to $80-100 today (and still dropping). while legal weed has not eliminated the black market, it certainly has made it FAR less lucrative. as a black market dealer you have to sell 2x-3x as much weight to make the same amount of money as you used to, and thats assuming you have high quality stuff that people actually want to buy. its almost impossible to sell lower quality green for anything more than pennies on the dollar, because the availability of great weed has made everyone a lot more picky about quality.

another side effect of legalization is almost everyone who is interested in weed has started growing their own, which also hurts the black market sellers. i havent bought any weed in months, between my own plants and the nugs my friends and neighbors give me, i have more than i could ever smoke.... and all for virtually free (aside from the electricity and time i put into my own grow)

Last edited by Nanners : 11-09-2017 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:55 AM   #33
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Default Re: How does a politician reduce the deficit?

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Originally Posted by Nanners
even if there was zero tax there would still be cheaper "illegal" marijuana. it will virtually always be cheaper to grow your own marijuana than buy it in a store, just like its cheaper to grow cucumbers or tomatoes at home than buy them. the black market will always have less overhead than the legal market.

we have had legal weed for several years here in oregon, and while the black market still exists here, the price for a black market ounce has dropped from ~$220ish pre-legalization to $80-100 today (and still dropping). while legal weed has not eliminated the black market, it certainly has made it FAR less lucrative. as a black market dealer you have to sell 2x-3x as much weight to make the same amount of money as you used to, and thats assuming you have high quality stuff that people actually want to buy. its almost impossible to sell lower quality green for anything more than pennies on the dollar, because the availability of great weed has made everyone a lot more picky about quality.

another side effect of legalization is almost everyone who is interested in weed has started growing their own, which also hurts the black market sellers. i havent bought any weed in months, between my own plants and the nugs my friends and neighbors give me, i have more than i could ever smoke.... and all for virtually free (aside from the electricity and time i put into my own grow)

For now. That's kinda what the article said that I posted (or did I?).

The taxes for legalized marijuana weren't as high before, but with each 'problem' government tries to fix with the tax revenue generated from weed sales, they just keep upping the tax higher and higher.

Its pure greed.

And while, in the beginning, it sounded like a really good idea, nobody is paying 35% tax on their bud when they can have it delivered for free. I mean, marijuana is illegal here now but I could place a phone call right now and have an ounce in my hand in half an hour.

It needs to be legalized nationwide (I believe Pence is against it), but it has to be legalized with the intent to use the additional revenue as a 'bonus', and not legalized with the intent to use the additional revenue to pay for shit that the government desperately need to pay for because then, the tax rate will simply go from 20%, to 25%, to 30%, and up and up.
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:58 AM   #34
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Default Re: How does a politician reduce the deficit?

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California Today: What if Legal Pot Costs More Than Black-Market Pot?

As regulators in California prepare for the start of recreational marijuana sales in January, people in the industry say they are concerned that the rollout may not be as smooth as was promised by the promoters of Prop 64, the ballot measure last November that legalized pot.

Three years ago, when Colorado began its recreational marijuana program, prices at dispensaries there were significantly lower than the black market, providing an incentive for consumers to join the legal system.

The situation is reversed in California. There is so much pot being grown in California that the wholesale price has been falling sharply in recent years and any pot sold on the legal market in January will have the added costs of taxes, fees and mandatory testing for pesticides and other chemicals.

Tawnie Logan, chairwoman of the board of the California Growers Association, an advocacy group for small-scale marijuana producers, says the black market price for an eighth of an ounce of marijuana is around $20, compared with $50 in dispensaries.

She predicts a bump in legal sales in January when recreational pot goes on sale because of the novelty of being able to buy pot in a store. But that novelty may wear off, she said.

“All of a sudden they are calling their buddy again,” Ms. Logan said, referring to black-market vendors who have thrived in California in recent decades.

When regulators are asked how they plan to handle the black market their answer is law enforcement. This may prove difficult in areas of Northern California where pot is central to the local economy.

“You would be turning these law enforcement agencies against their own communities,” said Terry Garrett, a manager at Sustaining Technologies, a marketing company that researches the cannabis market in Sonoma County.

“That’s the conundrum for California.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/u...conundrum.html

Per usual, California is ass backwards. If the state wasn't located where it was, that place would be a disaster.
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:08 AM   #35
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Default Re: How does a politician reduce the deficit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UK2K
For now. That's kinda what the article said that I posted (or did I?).

The taxes for legalized marijuana weren't as high before, but with each 'problem' government tries to fix with the tax revenue generated from weed sales, they just keep upping the tax higher and higher.

Its pure greed.

And while, in the beginning, it sounded like a really good idea, nobody is paying 35% tax on their bud when they can have it delivered for free. I mean, marijuana is illegal here now but I could place a phone call right now and have an ounce in my hand in half an hour.

It needs to be legalized nationwide (I believe Pence is against it), but it has to be legalized with the intent to use the additional revenue as a 'bonus', and not legalized with the intent to use the additional revenue to pay for shit that the government desperately need to pay for because then, the tax rate will simply go from 20%, to 25%, to 30%, and up and up.

people are paying those taxes. both colorado and washington have sold more than $1 billion in legal weed this past year, thats at least $200-300m in tax revenue.

i agree that it should be legalized nationwide. i think weed should be treated just like alcohol. alcohol is heavily taxed, yet the vast majority of people buy from the legal market even tho there is an alcohol black market of homebrewers and moonshiners and whoever else. nobody really gives a **** about the alcohol black market because the legal market is so accessable and affordable that there is no reason to bother with anything else. i can easily see weed heading the same direction as booze, especially if large companies start growing ultra high quality shit at large scales.
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:12 AM   #36
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Default Re: How does a politician reduce the deficit?

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Originally Posted by Nanners
people are paying those taxes. both colorado and washington have sold more than $1 billion in legal weed this past year, thats at least $200-300m in tax revenue.

i agree that it should be legalized nationwide. i think weed should be treated just like alcohol. alcohol is heavily taxed, yet the vast majority of people buy from the legal market even tho there is an alcohol black market of homebrewers and moonshiners and whoever else. nobody really gives a **** about the alcohol black market because the legal market is so accessable and affordable that there is no reason to bother with anything else. i can easily see weed heading the same direction as booze, especially if large companies start growing ultra high quality shit at large scales.

Nice point.

I think its a lot harder to create your own (safe) alcohol then it is to harvest weed to the point of smoking it, but I just think there's too much illegal weed in this country now.

Unless the big marijuana companies can mass produce and drive the costs way down, which would be a great thing IMO.
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:25 AM   #37
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Default Re: How does a politician reduce the deficit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UK2K
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/u...conundrum.html

Per usual, California is ass backwards. If the state wasn't located where it was, that place would be a disaster.

That article is borderline meaningless.

The first obvious problem with this article is the fact that weed does not become recreationally legal in California for another three months. Theres simply no way to know what the dispensary price for recreational weed will be in California.

The entire article seems to be centered on the claims of some rando jabroni named Tawnie Logan, and her "dispensary price" claims are garbage in my experience. Oregon, Washington and Colorado all have far cheaper dispensary prices than that, and Californias medical dispensaries (they dont have rec ones yet) are cheaper too.

Before I moved to Oregon a few years ago, I did a stint in the CA bay area, and when I was down there the price of black market weed was WAY over $7/gram or whatever she is claiming here. If you google "black market marijuana price california", the top result claims that the average black market price for marijuana in california right now is $14/gram ($19/gram in san francisco).

Last edited by Nanners : 11-10-2017 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:31 AM   #38
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Default Re: How does a politician reduce the deficit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanners
That article is borderline meaningless.

The first obvious problem with this article is the fact that weed does not become recreationally legal in California for another three months. Theres simply no way to know what the dispensary price for recreational weed will be in California.

The entire article seems to be centered on the claims of some rando jabroni named Tawnie Logan, and her "dispensary price" claims are garbage in my experience. Oregon, Washington and Colorado all have far cheaper dispensary prices than that, and Californias medical dispensaries (they dont have rec ones yet) are cheaper too.

Before I moved to Oregon a few years ago, I did a stint in the CA bay area, and when I was down there the price of black market weed was WAY over $7/gram or whatever she is claiming here. If you google "black market marijuana price california", the top result claims that the average black market price for marijuana in california right now is $14/gram ($19/gram in san francisco).

That's more than I pay, and its illegal here in Indianapolis. I pay $260 an oz, and its delivered to my doorstep.

Quote:
You can pick up a gram of cannabis in Los Angeles for about $14, about the same as you would have paid over the summer. It’ll cost you about $262 on average for an ounce.

I would assume it'd be cheaper in Cali.
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:42 AM   #39
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Default Re: How does a politician reduce the deficit?

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Originally Posted by UK2K
That's more than I pay, and its illegal here in Indianapolis. I pay $260 an oz, and its delivered to my doorstep.

I would assume it'd be cheaper in Cali.

Compared to the big eastern markets like New York, Boston, Philly, etc... Cali weed is pretty damn cheap. According to a 5 second google its currently ~$330ish for an oz in NYC and about the same in Boston.

The cali weed is also cheap when its compared to the overall cost of living in California. Another 5 sec google search indicates that the median house price in California is 400k while the median house price in Indiana is 120k. While Cali might pay slightly more than you, compared to their overall cost of living the price is much more reasonable. There is just a ****load of money in Cali and virtually everything is more expensive there because of it, if weed was priced like their housing it would be like 1k per ounce.

Last edited by Nanners : 11-10-2017 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:14 AM   #40
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Default Re: How does a politician reduce the deficit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanners
Compared to the big eastern markets like New York, Boston, Philly, etc... Cali weed is pretty damn cheap. According to a 5 second google its currently ~$330ish for an oz in NYC and about the same in Boston.

The cali weed is also cheap when its compared to the overall cost of living in California. Another 5 sec google search indicates that the median house price in California is 400k while the median house price in Indiana is 120k. While Cali might pay slightly more than you, compared to their overall cost of living the price is much more reasonable. There is just a ****load of money in Cali and virtually everything is more expensive there because of it, if weed was priced like their housing it would be like 1k per ounce.



That's absurd.

The one thing I 100% disagree with this administration on is their stance on marijuana use. I think legalizing it would make everyone happy.

I saw a poll out last week where 64% of the country is in favor of legalizing it. It needs to happen.
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