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Old 03-04-2018, 11:29 PM   #16
1987_Lakers
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Default Re: Gary Oldman's reaction after he wins the Oscar for Best Actor tonight...

He won it.
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:30 AM   #17
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Default Re: Gary Oldman's reaction after he wins the Oscar for Best Actor tonight...

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Originally Posted by Hawker
I don't think you know what racism is. Nationalities aren't a race.

Winston was severely anti-communist and anti-socialist hence the left's effort to tarnish his name.

Communism is not right or left on that flawed illogical scale Americans use. I still applaud Churchill for being against communism and I am good with him being against socialism too.

As for Churchill.. Yes, you are right. Hating Indians for wanting freedom from British Raj would be hating a nationality. Fine, but it still doesn't disprove the point that his policies and actions got a lot of innocents killed in India. He wanted to throw Gandhi in jail for fasting as a means to peaceful protest. If Gandhi wanted, he could have forced the British out overnight. 50k British vs millions of Indians - Brits in India would all be slaughtered. Churchill is very lucky he didn't get everything his way in the Parliament or else he would have a British slaughter on his hands. Then he would have to respond with British troops against millions of pissed off Indians. Yup, not happening. Be glad Gandhi fought with only peaceful means from start to finish.

Tbh, Churchill was racist as well. Here's a direct quote: “I do not admit, for example, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the Black people of Australia. I do not admit that wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race, to put it in that way, has come in and taken their place.”

100% racist. No way around it. I see other racist quotes, but I think I made my point.

Last edited by bladefd : 03-05-2018 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 03-05-2018, 05:02 AM   #18
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Default Re: Gary Oldman's reaction after he wins the Oscar for Best Actor tonight...

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Originally Posted by bladefd
Communism is not right or left on that flawed illogical scale Americans use. I still applaud Churchill for being against communism and I am good with him being against socialism too.

As for Churchill.. Yes, you are right. Hating Indians for wanting freedom from British Raj would be hating a nationality. Fine, but it still doesn't disprove the point that his policies and actions got a lot of innocents killed in India. He wanted to throw Gandhi in jail for fasting as a means to peaceful protest. If Gandhi wanted, he could have forced the British out overnight. 50k British vs millions of Indians - Brits in India would all be slaughtered. Churchill is very lucky he didn't get everything his way in the Parliament or else he would have a British slaughter on his hands. Then he would have to respond with British troops against millions of pissed off Indians. Yup, not happening. Be glad Gandhi fought with only peaceful means from start to finish.

Tbh, Churchill was racist as well. Here's a direct quote: I do not admit, for example, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the Black people of Australia. I do not admit that wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race, to put it in that way, has come in and taken their place.

100% racist. No way around it. I see other racist quotes, but I think I made my point.
That quote isn't racist. It's only racist if you misinterpret the historical context. That quote can easily be said about the Romans, Vikings, Mongols, Persians, etc.
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Old 03-05-2018, 05:54 PM   #19
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Default Re: Gary Oldman's reaction after he wins the Oscar for Best Actor tonight...

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Originally Posted by iamgine
That quote isn't racist. It's only racist if you misinterpret the historical context. That quote can easily be said about the Romans, Vikings, Mongols, Persians, etc.

"a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race, to put it in that way, has come in and taken their place"

Not racist? 'stronger, higher-grade race, a more wise race'

Quote:
Churchill's detractors point to his well-documented bigotry, articulated often with shocking callousness and contempt. "I hate Indians," he once trumpeted. "They are a beastly people with a beastly religion."

He referred to Palestinians as "barbaric hordes who ate little but camel dung." When quashing insurgents in Sudan in the earlier days of his imperial career, Churchill boasted of killing three "savages." Contemplating restive populations in northwest Asia, he infamously lamented the "squeamishness" of his colleagues, who were not in "favor of using poisoned gas against uncivilized tribes."

Imagine someone in power today calling for using mustard gas or anthrax on these 'uncivilized' subhumans to put them down, let alone using it at all.

It's one thing if you are just a nobody but a world leader calling for it? Churchill wouldn't last a month in modern British parliament.

Quote:
But that should not obscure the dangers of his worldview. Churchill's racism was wrapped up in his Tory zeal for empire, one which irked his wartime ally, U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt. As a junior member of parliament, Churchill had cheered on Britain's plan for more conquests, insisting that its "Aryan stock is bound to triumph." It's strange to celebrate his bravado in the face of Hitler's war machine and not consider his wider thinking on other parts of the world. After all, these are places that, just like Europe and the West, still live with the legacy of Churchill's and Britain's actions at the time.

I won't make anything of the imperialism bc that was well understood as a global norm in that day.

As for Aryans being superior, eh? Blond hair, blue eyes superiority, right down Hitler's road.

And people thought Churchill was this humble saint of a man fighting against the Nazi machine, which was built on systematic racism. Look, Nazis way of conquering & controlling things under essentially a monarchy of sorts threatened British power on a global stage so that's why Churchill was so outspoken from the very beginning. He was worried that the Nazis would conquer Britain and subjugate them under rule by tyranny & kill his great British Raj permanently. He didn't truly care about stopping racism or forced Nazi labor camps or altruism for the welfare of humanity at any point as we may be led to believe. This flawed side of Churchill goes against the narrative generally presented.

It also wasn't as if he said or done these things early in his 20s or something when he may have been a foolish young man then he matured into someone wise, but it continued well into his 60s/70s - whole life essentially. Answering the concerns of the chap on previous page - Gandhi had some questionable dangerous views as well in his 20s and into 30s while in South Africa before he was anointed "Mahatma" the great one on his return to India. We didn't see the same flawed views from him in 2nd half of his life so clearly he had grown as a person and individual. The only part I find peculiar from his 2nd half of his life was when he did some weird experimentation in his 70s to see if he could avoid getting an hard-on while sleeping in same bed as his young grandniece. That's essentially his only flaw as 'Mahatma' Gandhi.
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Old 03-05-2018, 06:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: Gary Oldman's reaction after he wins the Oscar for Best Actor tonight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
He won it.

I will watch it this week. I do want to see this movie after reading some very good reviews last night after reading this thread & watching Gary Oldman winning the oscar.

Churchill is very difficult to portray and do justice to - he was a strong complex individual with many facets. Regardless of the negative controversies cited above, he was a very powerful leader who did genuinely care about Britain's welfare. Not a saint or flawless man by any means, but I do commend him for not losing hope against the well-oiled Nazi machine. Until USA entered, Britain was essentially standing alone for a while as the sole superpower (and Soviets to the East- can't forget them) while getting beaten at sea (Uboats wrecking havoc) and air (Luftwaffe seemed invincible at first) & U2 barrages on Britain mainland bit later in war. Churchill could have easily given up, but nop he stood his ground. If Britain had fallen at any point, oh boy.... but it didn't happen thanks to Churchill.
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:10 AM   #21
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Default Re: Gary Oldman's reaction after he wins the Oscar for Best Actor tonight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladefd
Communism is not right or left on that flawed illogical scale Americans use. I still applaud Churchill for being against communism and I am good with him being against socialism too.

As for Churchill.. Yes, you are right. Hating Indians for wanting freedom from British Raj would be hating a nationality. Fine, but it still doesn't disprove the point that his policies and actions got a lot of innocents killed in India. He wanted to throw Gandhi in jail for fasting as a means to peaceful protest. If Gandhi wanted, he could have forced the British out overnight. 50k British vs millions of Indians - Brits in India would all be slaughtered. Churchill is very lucky he didn't get everything his way in the Parliament or else he would have a British slaughter on his hands. Then he would have to respond with British troops against millions of pissed off Indians. Yup, not happening. Be glad Gandhi fought with only peaceful means from start to finish.

Tbh, Churchill was racist as well. Here's a direct quote: I do not admit, for example, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the Black people of Australia. I do not admit that wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race, to put it in that way, has come in and taken their place.

100% racist. No way around it. I see other racist quotes, but I think I made my point.
This guy says communism isnt on the left or the right.
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:03 AM   #22
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Default Re: Gary Oldman's reaction after he wins the Oscar for Best Actor tonight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
This guy says communism isnt on the left or the right.
Liberals don't understand politics, this is expected.
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:16 AM   #23
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Default Re: Gary Oldman's reaction after he wins the Oscar for Best Actor tonight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
This guy says communism isn’t on the left or the right.

The right-left scale is completely flawed because it attemps to put politics and economics on same scale.

Do you know the opposite of communism is capitalism? Are you going to sit there and tell me capitalism is considered right wing concept? It's utter nonsense to put communism-capitalism on that flawed left-right scale.

Communism is an economic system and so is capitalism. Both are opposite to one another.

Libetarianism is a political idea and so is fascism/authoritarian. Both are opposite to one another. It screws the whole scale up and shows you that a 2-dimension scale (a single line) is completely nuts.

The right-left scale incorrectly tries to put both economic systems and political systems on the same scale, which is completely flawed. A nation can be both communist and libertarian, can be both capitalistic and authoritarian, can be both capitalistic and libertarian, and finally can be both communistic and authoritarian. I don't even know where you fit in USA on this single line scale - I would say we are more capitalist than communistic and more authoritarian than libertarian. Show us where on a line with a dot lol. And you want us to use a single horizontal line? *head blown*

Tell me, genius, how do you place communism/capitalism along with libertarian/authoritarian, which are all VERY different yet can be mixed and matched as above paragraph shows, on this single flat line scale? Which is right wing and which is left wing? I will wait.

Last edited by bladefd : 03-06-2018 at 04:24 AM.
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:17 AM   #24
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Default Re: Gary Oldman's reaction after he wins the Oscar for Best Actor tonight...

Or anyone for that matter. Show me how. I will wait.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: Gary Oldman's reaction after he wins the Oscar for Best Actor tonight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgine
That quote isn't racist. It's only racist if you misinterpret the historical context. That quote can easily be said about the Romans, Vikings, Mongols, Persians, etc.

churchill was just as racist as hitler
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