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Old 03-06-2018, 10:31 PM   #16
Dinosaurus
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

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Originally Posted by UK2K
Yeah, thing is, if prison here was like a country club, people would A) be getting stabbed and exploited left and right, more so then they already do and B) nobody would be afraid of prison, so nobody would give a shit about going back.

Because, as I said, that's the culture here. It just is. You can't take practices that are successfully in Europe and implement them here. It won't work. because we are simply not the same people.

Again, take the prisoners at San Quentin and dump them into any prison in Europe and they'd be running that place. It's no different than taking the prison population of San Pedro prison and putting them into a European jail. They're animals.
A large % of the u.s prison population is repeat offenders who started when young though, if they were put into a better rehabilitation program at a young age they wouldn't be grown adult hardened criminals who run the prison system. It's too hard to just switch over to a different system now but surely you aren't dumb enough to miss that part of why american prisoners are the way they are is because they grew up in that system and learnt to adapt to it. I don't think prison conditions are a deterrent either, real people and real criminals are more worried about their loss of freedom than some guy raping them like on tv.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:18 AM   #17
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

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Originally Posted by UK2K
I'm sorry, but there is just a different breed of human here in the states. You can't compare America to Sweden. You can't compare America to Ireland, or The Netherlands, or Belgium, or Germany, or France, or Austria.

The type of criminal that grows up in Germany is NOT even in the same ballpark compared to some of the criminals we have here.

It's a culture thing. Just like we can look at races and see there is a difference in IQs that goes deeper than just genetics, there is a culture here that turns kids into monsters, with or without prison, that kids in Europe don't deal with.

We have different prisons because we house different animals. Dump the inmates in San Quentin into a German prison and they'll be running that place before the week is up.
This.

Dump a dozen MS-13 gang members into one of those German prisons and lets see what they have to say.
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:04 AM   #18
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

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Originally Posted by Dinosaurus
A large % of the u.s prison population is repeat offenders who started when young though, if they were put into a better rehabilitation program at a young age they wouldn't be grown adult hardened criminals who run the prison system. It's too hard to just switch over to a different system now but surely you aren't dumb enough to miss that part of why american prisoners are the way they are is because they grew up in that system and learnt to adapt to it. I don't think prison conditions are a deterrent either, real people and real criminals are more worried about their loss of freedom than some guy raping them like on tv.

This is what happens when you try to 'rehabilitate' in the US:

Woman charged with felonies after 6th DUI, 2 crashes in 5 minutes in Aurora

6TH DUI!! The first five times, they went with the European 'maybe she'll learn her lesson this time'. Now she's being charged with a felony. I guess they were just waiting for her to kill someone so they could charge her with murder?

Don't know how I can make it any more clear, but the police and jailers in Europe aren't dealing with the same type of person in Europe as they are here.

They just aren't. Gangs here in the US would absolutely run European vacation spas. You don't have a gang problem there, so you don't deal with gangs. Maybe small time gangs, but not real gangs. There are 33,000 documented gangs here in the US. There's like 12 in The Netherlands.
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:08 AM   #19
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

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Originally Posted by tpols
Of course if you hand out unjust long sentences and life sentences like candy giving guys nothing to lose, jam em all up in dirty cages all over one another, promise them hell when they get out acheiving anything financially in life, and leave them to themselves to play cards and plot all day you will breed a special type of super criminal.

We literally have for profit prisons here ... what a great idea! LOL

Should just dump them on an island somewhere because they have no place in a modern society.

Im not talking about drug users; I am talking about rapists and murderers.

De-criminalizing drugs would go a long way to curing our prison population. I am all for it.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

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Originally Posted by UK2K
How many times do we rehabilitate a drunk driver, would you say?

Because I saw today a lady in KY with a suspended license hit a little kid on a bike while she was drunk. This is her 3rd offense.

How many chances, in your opinion, do we allow her to fix herself before we start to punish?

In Italy your car gets taken away for DUIs, best solution imo.
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

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Originally Posted by Overdrive
In Italy your car gets taken away for DUIs, best solution imo.

Then they just use their girlfriend or wifeís car and do it again


Drunk driving should be legal though..most people can hang it sucks a few has to ruin it for all
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

Punish then rehabilitate.
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Old 03-09-2018, 01:35 AM   #23
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

Lol @ comparing a european countries prison to the US where whites are lucky to be half of the total population.

Yeah no shit, if your american get sent to prison it's all gangs of tyrones and jose's. if your white your almost forced to join a neo-nazi type group to survive. the environment pretty much enforces violent criminal mentality and embracing it even further because it's mandatory unless you want to be someones little cuck. can go in normal and come out a hardened thug.

if you want a fair comparison compare America to say Brazil because that is more similar demographically at this point.

Last edited by HeatFanSince88 : 03-09-2018 at 01:39 AM.
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Old 03-09-2018, 03:06 AM   #24
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

It's pretty damn obvious our prison system is messed up, at the end of the day prisons are supposed to be a place where people get rehabilitation, in our country prisons are designed to punish you, you can't rehabilitate when you are locked in a small room for 23 hours a day.
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:12 AM   #25
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

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Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
It's pretty damn obvious our prison system is messed up, at the end of the day prisons are supposed to be a place where people get rehabilitation, in our country prisons are designed to punish you, you can't rehabilitate when you are locked in a small room for 23 hours a day.

The vast majority aren't.

There are approximately 2.2 million incarcerated people in this country, and (arguably) 80,000 are kept in 23 hour lock-down. That's .3%.

Of those 80,000, half are in confinement for disciplinary reasons (30,000) or protective custody (10,000).
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:16 AM   #26
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

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Originally Posted by Overdrive
In Italy your car gets taken away for DUIs, best solution imo.

34,000 people a year are convicted of driving on a suspended or revoked licence in JUST the state of Illinois.

Taking someone's car won't stop them from getting drunk and driving someone else's car.
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Old 03-11-2018, 02:42 AM   #27
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

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Originally Posted by UK2K
Yeah, thing is, if prison here was like a country club, people would A) be getting stabbed and exploited left and right, more so then they already do and B) nobody would be afraid of prison, so nobody would give a shit about going back.

Because, as I said, that's the culture here. It just is. You can't take practices that are successfully in Europe and implement them here. It won't work. because we are simply not the same people.

Again, take the prisoners at San Quentin and dump them into any prison in Europe and they'd be running that place. It's no different than taking the prison population of San Pedro prison and putting them into a European jail. They're animals.
You're an absolute moron and may as well go find a neuro-surgeon forum and find a thread to opine on there, because you may sound less uneducated.

How can you generalize an entire population of people that you don't know? Not every prison is a murderous pit of psychopaths who only live for anarchy and violence. These people who even have life sentences still try to hold onto some semblance of normalcy and respect.

And privileges wouldn't be lost upon all of them if such opportunities presented themselves. Many men (and women) do come out of prison with good intentions, and sometimes exponentially better people. Why not try rehabilitation?

People like you, I swear...
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Old 03-11-2018, 05:25 AM   #28
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

Quote:
Originally Posted by UK2K
I'm sorry, but there is just a different breed of human here in the states. You can't compare America to Sweden. You can't compare America to Ireland, or The Netherlands, or Belgium, or Germany, or France, or Austria.

The type of criminal that grows up in Germany is NOT even in the same ballpark compared to some of the criminals we have here.

It's a culture thing. Just like we can look at races and see there is a difference in IQs that goes deeper than just genetics, there is a culture here that turns kids into monsters, with or without prison, that kids in Europe don't deal with.

We have different prisons because we house different animals. Dump the inmates in San Quentin into a German prison and they'll be running that place before the week is up.
This is a very prevalent cliche that people who are emotionally against the change and who dislike rethinking their believes rationalise the shortcomings of their own prison system.

Tell me what comes first, the culture or the prisons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UK2K
Yeah, thing is, if prison here was like a country club, people would A) be getting stabbed and exploited left and right, more so then they already do and B) nobody would be afraid of prison, so nobody would give a shit about going back.

Because, as I said, that's the culture here. It just is. You can't take practices that are successfully in Europe and implement them here. It won't work. because we are simply not the same people.

Again, take the prisoners at San Quentin and dump them into any prison in Europe and they'd be running that place. It's no different than taking the prison population of San Pedro prison and putting them into a European jail. They're animals.
B) Tell me the reoffending rate of US? I think ~68%, on top off my head. That's an enormous rate. Would you say that the conditions in prison keep people away from committing the crime again?

I am not sure the once-sentenced people are afraid of going back to prison. Afraid or not, their emotions are irrelevant anyway. The system sucks up people and just makes them go round, in and out, at least that's what numbers say.

A) would you be willing to test it?
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Old 03-11-2018, 05:28 AM   #29
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

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Originally Posted by pastis
im for a mix between the us and the german system.

i am in favor of 1 cell per prisoner: privacy is very important
i am in favor of many activities: apprenticeships, high school degree, sport and time outside of the prison
parole should be always the case: you are going nuts and influence other inmates when you know that you will never leave the prison


BUT

its j not acceptable that in germany murderers or mass rapists only getting 8-12 years. "life in prison" is 15-18 years in germamy - and thats only for the super psychopath murderers a la kenneth bianchi
What do you think would be the appropriate sentence for murderers and mass rapists then?
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Old 03-11-2018, 07:53 AM   #30
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Default Re: interesting speech about differences between the us and german prison system

"how did a country that has done such horrible things..." wow, how disgusting, how racist of him to say this about an entire group of people

"they don't call them minimum, medium, maximum security. they think that calling them maximum security will lead to violence between inmates and staff." right, and if we change the name to special, very special, and maximum special it will decrease the violence between inmates and staff

he also says "canadians are nicer than us." wrong again. virtue signal game is strong tho

i agree that the war on drugs is bad. i was disappointed when obama wanted to continue the criminalization of marijuana because it would be a "slippery slope" .. change we can believe in

summary of this guys talk:

germans have cleaner prisons and less security. this leads to low crime. let that be a lesson for america.

nope. babies born out of wedlock / no father and laws that target black and brown people (ie war on drugs) are the problem, not that we need cleaner resort-style prisons. what a dumbass. this guy hardly addresses the issue.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kurple
in northern europe we rehabilitate. in america you punish

ill let you decide whats best

not sure i agree with this. Americans are practically living in rehabs. they are in and out of them all the time bro. in fact, even our celebrities are in rehab.. didn't harvey weinstein and 20 others just go in for rehab recently? /s

punish? hmmm. i know a several guys who were caught selling marijuana... one was caught 7 times and nothing happened to him for it. all of them went to rehab many times. i know another guy who wrecked 3 Range Rovers (his parents gifted them to him) while drunk driving.. punishment was a $2500 fine for him the 3rd time. i guess that's a pretty harsh punishment, but hasn't Stalker had like 8 battery charges? dude is living a free man and gettin paid! ain't no punishment here brah


but it is funny how people have so much faith in billions of dollars in rehabs and their 1% success rates. i'm sure all Stalker needed was a rehab to prevent all his battery charges and set him on a path of success
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