Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-07-2018, 01:32 AM   #16
3ball
NBA Legend
 
3ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 15,799
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

MJ's early casts won less regular season games because his casts were worse - that's the only explanation for the lesser wins since jordan's early stats are FAR better than lebron's

Anyone pointing to empty stats can point to lebron, since his favored teams were routinely upset ieach year of the 2009-2011 playoffs, despite gaudy stats from lebron.. His stats weren't achieved with good teamwork.. Otoh, jordan's teams were never worse than expected or underachieved (lost when expected to win) so jordan's stats wete never empty
3ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2018, 04:53 AM   #17
Manny98
LeBron/Knicks
 
Manny98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,222
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryGarfunkle
In your world, Bill Russell is the GOAT (Some guy who averaged 15ppg against auto-mechanics and substitute teachers)...



In my world, LeBron is GOAT, the guy who did

THIS



...
this tops all of MJs rings combined
Manny98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2018, 06:53 AM   #18
aj1987
MH!
 
aj1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 20,898
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
[size="1"]
2. KOBE:

Top Lebron moments:
[indent][indent][size="3"][i]- Lebron watched Kobe win more championships during the time that both were in their prime, and also watched Kobe save the team in the 2008 Olympics.
I'm not even going to touch the rest of your batshit crazy post, but this one point. Wade was the best player in the entire tournament and the Finals. It wasn't particularly close either. Kobe got TORCHED defensively as well. Oh, and it was Wade who hit the clutch 3 with less than 2 minutes left.

Retard.
aj1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2018, 07:34 AM   #19
greymatter
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,869
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

Jordan never made it to the Finals without both Pippen and either Grant or Rodman.

Lebron took a team with Ilgauskas and Larry Hughes as his 2nd/3rd best players to the Finals.

Lebron's 2016 Finals performance >> anything Jordan ever did.

Cavs lose Lebron = -42Ws next season
Bulls lose Jordan = -2Ws next season

Jordan isn't worthy of even being a top 5 all time player to build a team around. Kareem, Bill Russell, Chamberlain, Bird, Magic easily made their teams much better.
greymatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2018, 07:50 AM   #20
sportjames23
GOAT
 
sportjames23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 13,006
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by greymatter
Jordan never made it to the Finals without both Pippen and either Grant or Rodman.

Lebron took a team with Ilgauskas and Larry Hughes as his 2nd/3rd best players to the Finals.

Lebron's 2016 Finals performance >> anything Jordan ever did.

Cavs lose Lebron = -42Ws next season
Bulls lose Jordan = -2Ws next season

Jordan isn't worthy of even being a top 5 all time player to build a team around. Kareem, Bill Russell, Chamberlain, Bird, Magic easily made their teams much better.



Shut up, scrub.
sportjames23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2018, 08:08 AM   #21
Manny98
LeBron/Knicks
 
Manny98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,222
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportjames23


Shut up, scrub.
Truth Hurts
Manny98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2018, 08:53 PM   #22
egokiller
The Mind Fvcker
 
egokiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 7,189
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourkicks44
3ball please post something more interesting.

How about some stories about when you played with Raja Bell?

That's what the people want to hear.

The le-appologists on this board don't understand that:

0-2 < 1-9
3/8 < 6/6

Math isn't their strong suit and when they say "1-9" they just further embarrass themselves and the man they apologize on behalf of because 0-2 < 1-9.
egokiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 12:34 AM   #23
red1
raptors
 
red1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 16,217
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Because he only has 3 rings.. 6 already beats 3, so Finals record isn't even needed.

Otoh, the 6/6 argument is needed versus someone like kareem, who also has 6 rings

But lebron is so overrated, that people make counterarguments versus 6/6, when the guy only has 3 rings.. 6 > 3.. That's all thats needed

And obviously, 6 championships > 3 championships plus 2 extra conference finals wins
.
get a life fakkit.







































and then jump off a bridge when you do.
red1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 12:37 AM   #24
3ball
NBA Legend
 
3ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 15,799
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

Re
Quote:
Originally Posted by greymatter

Jordan never made it to the Finals without both Pippen and either Grant or Rodman.

Whereas Lebron took a team with Ilgauskas and Larry Hughes as his 2nd/3rd best players to the Finals.

But Lebron only beat the 07' Pistons to do it.. Whereas the 86-90' Bulls played the all-time great celtics and bad boys, which would've swept lebron just like the 07' Spurs did

So as soon as lebron faced a real team like jordan faced, he got swept.. Whereas at least jordan took the 89 and 90 pistons to the limit, and broke legendary records against the 86' celtics - 23 year old jordan averaged 44 ppg on 51% against the champion celtics and their #1 defense, whereas 22-year old lebron got 22 ppg on 36% against the champion spurs and their #1 defense.. So jordan crushed championship comp far more than lebron

Btw - iverson, kidd, and dwight ALSO took weak casts to the Finals in that decade, proving that any great player can do it.. It doesnt make lebron the goat lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by greymatter

Lebron's 2016 Finals performance >> anything Jordan ever did.

Ur clinging to the one time he beat the Warriors when the rest of the time he gets destroyed.. Anyone will win if they get enough tries, but lebron mostly loses to the warriors, spurs and mavs in the Finals

Otoh, jordan beat 6 Finals teams (4 with 60+ wins), and better in-conference comp, so he beat better teams overall, despite lebron's one-off against the warriors

Also, Jordan averaged 36/7/8 in 91-93' Finals.. The 6 extra ppg and greater clutch is far more vauable than a couple extra rebounds and assists.. Btw, jordan was 0.4 rpg away from leading his team in all 5 categories for the ENTIRE 1997 PLAYOFFS, not just 1 series.. Jordan also undertook a much bigger 4th quarter burden:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=446695


Quote:
Originally Posted by greymatter

Cavs lose Lebron = -42Ws next season
Bulls lose Jordan = -2Ws next season

2011Cavs
They didn't just lose Lebron.. They lost 2 other starters (Shaq, Mo Williams) and 3 more key players (Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas) - these guys scored a combined 52 ppg, which is more than half the Cavs points.

So it's ludicrous to disregard the 52 ppg of these guys, and act like Lebron's 30 ppg was the only difference in 2011..


2015 Heat
In 2014, the Heat's RS record would've placed them at the 4-6 seed out West (3-way tie for the 4-seed).. They were easily the Spurs' worst opponent in those playoffs, since they had a 15-point disadvantage in ORtg against the Spurs (a record), compared to only 3 points, 6 points and 8 points for Mavs, OKC and Blazers, respectively.. And anyone who watched those Finals could see that the Heat weren't a very good team

Accordingly, the 2014 Heat were a 1st or 2nd Round team out West that fell to a lottery team in 2015 (due to injuries to Bosh/Wade).. The only reason their drop-off seems bigger is because they played in a worst-ever Eastern Conference, so they made the Finals instead of losing in the 1st or 2nd round

More importantly - Bosh and Wade's prime was over by the time Lebron left - he used up their primes, and then jumped ship..


So as you can see, we've never seen how a team would perform without Lebron because each time he jumped ship, half the team ALSO left, or the team had injuries and was past their prime...

i.e. Lebron's departure from the Cavs in 2011 along with Mo Williams and Shaq (his 2nd and 3rd options) is the same as MJ leaving the Bulls in 1999 with Pippen and Rodman.. Shaq and Mo actually averaged more points (28 ppg) than pippen/rodman (24 ppg).. And the cavs also lost varajao, zydrunas and delonte


Finally, the poor record of Lebron's teams when he gets injured is because the team's offense isn't an equal opportunity offense like the spurs or warriors - instead, the cavs' offense is lebron-ball, which can't be run when he's injured, and there's no time to find another forward to play PG or institute another offense.

The stats demonstrate how Lebron-ball caters to Lebron's game and forces teammates to adjust.. Specifically, Lebron's PG play from the forward position means he holds the ball twice as long as a normal forward, which gives teammtes less time with the ball, reduces their assists and forces them to spot up..

While it's understandable that this point-forward approach is the only style he's ever known, his inability to dominate with a lower time of possession like other great forwards results in a less equitable distribution of playmaking, weak teamwork and a team that isn't as good as they should be - this includes winning only 50 or so games with big 3 talent and being underdogs in the Finals when they should be even money or favorites.


Quote:
Originally Posted by greymatter

Jordan isn't worthy of even being a top 5 all time player to build a team around. Kareem, Bill Russell, Chamberlain, Bird, Magic easily made their teams much better.

Lebron's impact is misperceived and overstated.. In 2009, his 28/8/7 yieilded 66 wins, while jordan's 33/8/8 yielded only 47 wins in 1989.. The most obvious reason for the 19-win gap is that lebron had a better cast to fill that gap.. And also that his competion was weaker..

Of course - in the 2009 playoffs, lebron's brand of basletball was exposed by the underdog magic, whereas jordan's brand thrived by beating higher seeds in every round b4 taking the champion pistons 6 games in 89' ecf.

1989 demonstrates jordan's impact the best.. The 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without jordan's 33/8/8.. So without Jordan, that was a lottery roster and going nowhere heading into the 1990 season - but WITH Jordan, they were ECF vets and 1 season away from starting a 3-peat.. Thats the goat impact on a lottery team

And we saw jordan's goat impact on a decent team when his 3-peat champion Bulls fell to 2nd Round capability without him, and then returned to 3-peat capability in his first full season back..

So Jordan had goat impact on all teams, good or bad.. His goat impact stems from his elite.ability in all areas of scoring - particularly quick scoring areas like off-ball and triple-threat/post - this quick and versatile scoring ability allowed him to adapt to teammates better and also fit his league-leading scoring into a structured, equal-opportunity system that didnt allow ball-domination.. This is amazing since scoring leaders typically cant score at those levels without affecting teamwork - scoring champs never won the title before jordan did it SIX times.. (edit: jabbar and shaq did it once each.)
.

Last edited by 3ball : 03-08-2018 at 01:04 AM.
3ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 12:57 AM   #25
sportjames23
GOAT
 
sportjames23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 13,006
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny98
Truth Hurts

You wouldn't know the truth if it gave you attention, scuzzy.
sportjames23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 12:59 AM   #26
sportjames23
GOAT
 
sportjames23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 13,006
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
But Lebron only beat the 07' Pistons to do it.. Whereas the 86-90' Bulls played the all-time great celtics and bad boys, which would've swept lebron just like the 07' Spurs did

So as soon as lebron faced a real team like jordan faced, he got swept.. Whereas at least jordan took the 89 and 90 pistons to the limit, and broke legendary records against the 86' celtics - 23 year old jordan averaged 44 ppg on 51% against the champion celtics and their #1 defense, whereas 22-year old lebron got 22 ppg on 36% against the champion spurs and their #1 defense.. So jordan crushed championship comp far more than lebron

Btw - iverson, kidd, and dwight ALSO took weak casts to the Finals in that decade, proving that any great player can do it.. It doesnt make lebron the goat lol



Ur clinging to the one time he beat the Warriors when the rest of the time he gets destroyed.. Anyone will win if they get enough tries, but lebron mostly loses to the warriors, spurs and mavs in the Finals

Otoh, jordan beat 6 Finals teams (4 with 60+ wins), and better in-conference comp, so he beat better teams overall, despite lebron's one-off against the warriors

Also, Jordan averaged 36/7/8 in 91-93' Finals.. The 6 extra ppg and greater clutch is far more vauable than a couple extra rebounds and assists.. Btw, jordan was 0.4 rpg away from leading his team in all 5 categories for the ENTIRE 1997 PLAYOFFS, not just 1 series.. Jordan also undertook a much bigger 4th quarter burden:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=446695



2011Cavs
They didn't just lose Lebron.. They lost 2 other starters (Shaq, Mo Williams) and 3 more key players (Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas) - these guys scored a combined 52 ppg, which is more than half the Cavs points.

So it's ludicrous to disregard the 52 ppg of these guys, and act like Lebron's 30 ppg was the only difference in 2011..


2015 Heat
In 2014, the Heat's RS record would've placed them at the 4-6 seed out West (3-way tie for the 4-seed).. They were easily the Spurs' worst opponent in those playoffs, since they had a 15-point disadvantage in ORtg against the Spurs (a record), compared to only 3 points, 6 points and 8 points for Mavs, OKC and Blazers, respectively.. And anyone who watched those Finals could see that the Heat weren't a very good team

Accordingly, the 2014 Heat were a 1st or 2nd Round team out West that fell to a lottery team in 2015 (due to injuries to Bosh/Wade).. The only reason their drop-off seems bigger is because they played in a worst-ever Eastern Conference, so they made the Finals instead of losing in the 1st or 2nd round

More importantly - Bosh and Wade's prime was over by the time Lebron left - he used up their primes, and then jumped ship..


So as you can see, we've never seen how a team would perform without Lebron because each time he jumped ship, half the team ALSO left, or the team had injuries and was past their prime...

i.e. Lebron's departure from the Cavs in 2011 along with Mo Williams and Shaq (his 2nd and 3rd options) is the same as MJ leaving the Bulls in 1999 with Pippen and Rodman.. Shaq and Mo actually averaged more points (28 ppg) than pippen/rodman (24 ppg).. And the cavs also lost varajao, zydrunas and delonte


Finally, the poor record of Lebron's teams when he gets injured is because the team's offense isn't an equal opportunity offense like the spurs or warriors - instead, the cavs' offense is lebron-ball, which can't be run when he's injured, and there's no time to find another forward to play PG or institute another offense.

The stats demonstrate how Lebron-ball caters to Lebron's game and forces teammates to adjust.. Specifically, Lebron's PG play from the forward position means he holds the ball twice as long as a normal forward, which gives teammtes less time with the ball and forces them to spot up..

While it's understandable that this point-forward approach is the only style he's ever known, his inability to dominate with a lower time of possession like other great forwards results in a less equitable distribution of playmaking, weak teamwork and a team that isn't as good as they should be - this includes winning only 50 or so games with big 3 talent and being underdogs in the Finals when they should be even money or favorites.



Lebron's impact is misperceived and overstated.. In 2009, his 28/8/7 yieilded 66 wins, while jordan's 33/8/8 yielded only 47 wins in 1989.. The most obvious reason for the 19-win gap is that lebron had a better cast to fill that gap.. And also that his competion was weaker.

In 1989, the 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without jordan's 33/8/8.. So without Jordan, that was a lottery roster and going nowhere heading into the 1990 season - but WITH Jordan, they were ECF vets and 1 season away from starting a 3-peat.. Thats the goat impact on a lottery team

And we saw jordan's goat impact on a decent team when his 3-peat champion Bulls fell to 2nd Round capability without him, and then returned to 3-peat capability in his first full season back..

So Jordan had goat impact on all teams, good or bad.. His goat impact stems from his elite.ability in all areas of scoring - particularly quick scoring areas like off-ball and triple-threat/post - this quick and versatile scoring ability allowed him to adapt to teammates better and also fit his league-leading scoring into a structured, equal-opportunity system that didnt allow ball-domination.. This is amazing since scoring leaders typically cant score at those levels without affecting teamwork - scoring champs never won the title before jordan did it SIX times.. (edit: jabbar and shaq did it once each.)


rekt
sportjames23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 01:42 AM   #27
dankok8
Local High School Star
 
dankok8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,324
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

All one needs to know to put Lebron's 3-5 record in the finals in context is that Lebron had homecourt in the finals only twice in eight appearances. And in four appearances in 2007, 2015, 2016, 2017 he was a heavy underdog. In 2014, he also faced a significantly better team than his own. Those statements are hardly debatable.

It's also funny seeing that 3ball is giving the absence of Mo Williams significant credit for the Cavs downfall in 2011. We know very well that even while Lebron was there, the Cavs kept the same pace when Mo wasn't playing but completely fell off the map when Lebron wasn't on the court. Ditto for the Heat without Lebron. Without him they weren't relevant.

I mean we can argue the merits of Lebron-centric ball all day here (it's subjective at the end...) but don't distort facts. Lebron has had incredible ON-OFF impact no his team from day one in this league. And even his absolutely atrocious Dallas performance (2011) is easily made up by dominating and ultimately winning a finals he had no business winning (2016). At the end I would argue that Lebron won more than you'd expect him to.

Jordan may well be better than Lebron but it's close. If you say Lebron is better, you're not crazy.
dankok8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 01:54 AM   #28
sportjames23
GOAT
 
sportjames23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 13,006
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by dankok8
All one needs to know to put Lebron's 3-5 record in the finals in context is that Lebron had homecourt in the finals only twice in eight appearances. And in four appearances in 2007, 2015, 2016, 2017 he was a heavy underdog. In 2014, he also faced a significantly better team than his own. Those statements are hardly debatable.

It's also funny seeing that 3ball is giving the absence of Mo Williams significant credit for the Cavs downfall in 2011. We know very well that even while Lebron was there, the Cavs kept the same pace when Mo wasn't playing but completely fell off the map when Lebron wasn't on the court. Ditto for the Heat without Lebron. Without him they weren't relevant.

I mean we can argue the merits of Lebron-centric ball all day here (it's subjective at the end...) but don't distort facts. Lebron has had incredible ON-OFF impact no his team from day one in this league. And even his absolutely atrocious Dallas performance (2011) is easily made up by dominating and ultimately winning a finals he had no business winning (2016). At the end I would argue that Lebron won more than you'd expect him to.

Jordan may well be better than Lebron but it's close. If you say Lebron is better, you're not crazy.

No, it's not close, and yes, you're crazy if you say Lebron is better.
sportjames23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 02:10 AM   #29
1987_Lakers
7-time NBA All-Star
 
1987_Lakers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,271
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

LeBron's competition in the Finals since 2012

Thunder
Spurs
Spurs
Warriors
Warriors
Warriors

Those were pretty brutal teams, OKC had 3 superstars, Spurs were extremely well coached and their ball-movement was the best ever in the modern era, & of course the Warriors, a team that will probably go down as the GOAT team.

MJ never faced that kind of competition in the Finals.
1987_Lakers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 04:12 AM   #30
3ball
NBA Legend
 
3ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 15,799
Default Re: Lebron isn't worthy of 6/6 argument

Tee
Quote:
Originally Posted by dankok8

All one needs to know to put Lebron's 3-5 record in the finals in context is that Lebron had homecourt in the finals only twice in eight appearances. And in four appearances in 2007, 2015, 2016, 2017 he was a heavy underdog. In 2014, he also faced a significantly better team than his own. Those statements are hardly debatable.

Jordan was the underdog in 1991, 1993 and 1998 Finals, and faced greater talent in 92 and 96 Finals. But the reality is that Lebron gets downgraded for always having underdog teams

The underdog status is often NOT due to talent deficits - in 2014, the spurs didn't have superior talent than the Heat, but they were considered a coin-flip going into the Finals due to vastly superior teamwork and brand of basketball, which ultimately led to record victory.. The 2011 Finals were similarly epic due to the teamwork advantage of the Mavs.. So that's 2 Finals that Lebron lost due to a teamwork deficit, not talent, and his team was rated lower accordingly pre-series.

In 2016, lebron had kryrie and love, which compare well to curry's klay and dray.. The talent gap was little to none, but the warriors won more RS games and garnered favorite status due to vastly superior teamwork.. So once again, a major teamwork deficit hurt Lebron's team's favorite/underdog status.. He shouldn't have been an underdog in that series, not when he has his OWN big 3 superteam, but his teams have poor teamwork

The reality is that Lebron's PG style from the forward position fosters inequitable playmaking distribution and poor teamwork, so his teams are never the juggernaut his opponents seem to be, despite having comparable or superior talent.. Unfortunately, lebron cannot dominate without playing PG, so his game can never adjust to teammates or fit into a structured system of equal-opprtunity ball-movement (ala spurs, warriors, mavs, 90's bulls)


Quote:
Originally Posted by dan08

It's also funny seeing that 3ball is giving the absence of Mo Williams significant credit for the Cavs downfall in 2011. We know very well that even while Lebron was there, the Cavs kept the same pace when Mo wasn't playing but completely fell off the map when Lebron wasn't on the court. Ditto for the Heat without Lebron. Without him they weren't relevant.

Lebron's departure in 2011 along with Mo Williams and Shaq (his 2nd and 3rd options) is the same as MJ's departure in 1999 along with pippen and rodman.. Except the cavs also lost varajao, Zydrunas and delonte.. Btw, shaq/mo averaged more points (28) than pippwn/rodman (24).


Quote:
Originally Posted by dank08

I mean we can argue the merits of Lebron-centric ball all day here (it's subjective at the end...) but don't distort facts. Lebron has had incredible ON-OFF impact no his team from day one in this league. And even his absolutely atrocious Dallas performance (2011) is easily made up by dominating and ultimately winning a finals he had no business winning (2016). At the end I would argue that Lebron won more than you'd expect him to.

The only verifiable data we have for Jordan is that he led the NBA in plus-minus in 1996, with +990, according to the 1996 Philly 76'er Media Guide:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=312jwar&s=8


But that isnt the point - the point is that lebron's style results in a teamwork deficit and underdog status versus Finals teams

They should be a juggernaut unstoppable team but the poor teamwork makes them easily defeatable by elite teams

See the 2009-2011 playoff and 2014 Finals for examples of lebron losing with equal or greater talent, due to weaker teamwork.. And the reason his teams have poor records when he's hurt is becauae the team's offense is lebron-ball.. So the team cant run their offense when he's gone


Quote:
Originally Posted by dank08

Jordan may well be better than Lebron but it's close. If you say Lebron is better, you're not crazy.

The goat has 6 rings in 13 playoff runs, versus 3 rings in 12 for Lebron

And the goat achieved double the rings while getting better stats, including #1All-time in PER, PPG, and average win share (ws/48).

And jordan achieved double the rings and better stats by dominating many of the best players Lebron ever played against - i.e. in 1998, the 35 year old jordan won all the mvp's (RS, All star and Finals) over all-stars: Shaq, duncan, kobe, garnett - possibly the 4 best players lebron ever played
.

Last edited by 3ball : 03-08-2018 at 05:01 AM.
3ball is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:


Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:48 AM.






NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:

NBA Basketball

NBA Rumors

Basketball Blog

NBA Videos

NBA Free Agents

NBA Free Agency

NBA Summer Leagues

Utah Summer League

Sacramento Summer League

Vegas NBA Summer League

Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
Instagram
YouTube
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy