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Old 07-10-2006, 01:28 PM   #91
Rasheed1
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I'm laughing as I write this... don't take it too seriously but understand the message). If you were starving (Knicks need an aggressive player with a good attitude), and somebody offered you a pizza, worth $14, for $40 (Balkman available at 20), and no guarentees there will be any other food around (no guarentees Balkman would have been around at 29), do you starve to death or take the pizza? I would think you take the pizza.

this isnt pizza, and that is not how the draft works....Analogy doesnt even make any sense in relation to what we are talking about...nobody offers you anything in the draft...you select it...


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The players you speak of that "fill a need"... that is not why the players you mentioned were drafted.

Sam Bowie was drafted at #2 because the trailbalazers already had Clyde Drexler... thats is what you call a REACH PICK homie, brush up on your stuff



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It is a completely different situation. Keith Van Horn was drafted second because people thought he would be a great player...

Keith Van Horn was drafted at 2 by the sixers in order to trade him and dump salary..... Jersey wanted him, we drafted and served him up..He wasnt worthy of a #2 pick and it has haunted him ever since...Instead of being looked at as a good player, he is often looked at as bust because he didnt become what he was labeled as when he was drafted that high.....


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Darko Milicic was drafted second because people thought that he would become a great player (he will become pretty good, still). In other words, those guys weren't drafted to fill a need..

Darko was drafted waay too high when better players were available, hasnt done squat in the league and is looked at as a waste of a number two pick when Detroit could have had wade or Melo.....either of those two would be really handy on Detroit's roster right now


like I said, reaching is a bad idea, especially in basketball where each position is not as specialized as some other sports
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:45 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Rasheed1
this isnt pizza, and that is not how the draft works....Analogy doesnt even make any sense in relation to what we are talking about...nobody offers you anything in the draft...you select it...




Sam Bowie was drafted at #2 because the trailbalazers already had Clyde Drexler... thats is what you call a REACH PICK homie, brush up on your stuff





Keith Van Horn was drafted at 2 by the sixers in order to trade him and dump salary..... Jersey wanted him, we drafted and served him up..He wasnt worthy of a #2 pick and it has haunted him ever since...Instead of being looked at as a good player, he is often looked at as bust because he didnt become what he was labeled as when he was drafted that high.....




Darko was drafted waay too high when better players were available, hasnt done squat in the league and is looked at as a waste of a number two pick when Detroit could have had wade or Melo.....either of those two would be really handy on Detroit's roster right now


like I said, reaching is a bad idea, especially in basketball where each position is not as specialized as some other sports

About the analogy... if you didn't get it on your own i can't really help

You still don't understand that those aren't examples of "reach" picks (I wasn't referring to Sam Bowie though... I didn't talk about him. I was not paying attention to basketball back then, so I have nothing to say about it). They were not taken as reaches... they were taken where people felt they were supposed to be drafted... That is not what a reach is. The teams that took those guys were not the only teams that would have taken them there

About what you said about Darko... hindsight is 20/20. They obviously didn't plan on Darko doing nothing in Detroit. Nobody planned on Dwyane Wade being as good as he is. On draft day, Darko was seen as the better prospect... again... NOT A REACH

Last edited by NYKnicks914 : 07-10-2006 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:59 PM   #93
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About the analogy... if you didn't get it on your own i can't really help

analogy doesnt make any sense and is not applicable

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You still don't understand that those aren't examples of "reach" picks. They were not taken as reaches... they were taken where people felt they were supposed to be drafted... That is not what a reach is. The teams that took those guys were not the only teams that would have taken them there

About what you said about Darko... hindsight is 20/20. They obviously didn't plan on Darko doing nothing in Detroit. Nobody planned on Dwyane Wade being as good as he is. On draft day, Darko was seen as the better prospect... again... NOT A REACH

You're on crack if you thought Darko would be a better player than either melo or wade.... Darko was projected as a project... maybe in 3 years he'll be ready... When has a #2 had to wait 3 years to make an impact in the league?

Of course they are a reach...

We discussed this on the board when the picks were made.... Nobody in their right mind thought Darko was gonna be better than Wade or Melo....People jumped on Dumars as soon as that move happened...Nobody had even seen much of Darko...to draft him at number #2 was, well a reach

It was definitely a reach...not for specific position, but still a reach

Bottomline is, Isiah has now set himself up, by reaching for Balkman. If Balkman doesnt prove to be better than the players drafted behind him, Zeke will get called a dummy (again).... and Balkman will have possibly unfair expectations of him as a player because of where he was drafted
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:27 PM   #94
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Bottomline is, Isiah has now set himself up, by reaching for Balkman. If Balkman doesnt prove to be better than the players drafted behind him, Zeke will get called a dummy (again).... and Balkman will have possibly unfair expectations of him as a player because of where he was drafted

The biggest problem Balkman has is that he is going ot be judged as a #2 pick we gave up. It has nothing to do with him, but bad teams look ot their draft for a savior. The Knicks were supposed to have a #2, instead we have a #20.

As I wrote, I'll be happy with Balkman if he's useful. Give me Hedo on the upside and Q.Ross on the downside. Poor Balkman will be judged as a #2, Dennis Rodman-RonArtest player. That's an impossible standard that Tyrus Thomas will have a hard time living up to.

He'll get his money but he's going ot suffer a ton of criticism through factors well beyond his control.
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:23 PM   #95
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Understand this......the summer league means nothing, ok? Just a bunch of scrubs that were second round picks or undrafted FA, or just suck so much that their people sent them there in hopes of "reviving" the player's career. Take it from a man who's seen Balkman extensively (and I have, being that I attend USC), he's not what Isiah thinks he is. I remember him saying something about asking Donovan about how Balkman made their lifes hard when they beat UF. My answer is I was there both games, and it was Tarence Kinsey who did them in. Not Balkman. That was a waste of a pick, cause he wasn't even the best player on the team. A note to all Knick fans.....if he wants a defensive SG/SF who can score the ball as well, tell him to get Tarence.





And to all that read this post, I got a prediction for you.......


HELL WILL FREEZE OVER BEFORE RENALDO BALKMAN BECOMES A STAR OR EVEN A DEFENSIVE STOPPER IN THE LEAGUE.
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:55 AM   #96
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Default Knicks salaries...

I've split it up into different years they will actually become free agents (ie. I've included players with player options continuing with the contract through to its final year)

They can drop about 25 million this summer, nothing the next sumemr and then about 50 million after the 08/09 season (includes Marbury and Francis) at that point they'd STILL HAVE $45 million in salaries not includign any extension they give to Frye any draft picks in the next couple of years and any free agents they sign (let alone bone headed trades for bad contracts)

Hopefully someone can work out a way to get Jamal Crawford, Eddy Curry or Jerome James off the books by 2009 so that they could potentially be under the cap at that point! what a miracle.. doubtful though...

New York Knicks Date # of total
Player signed years salary
Jalen Rose ..... 8/2/00 7 $92.88 million p-opt '07
Maurice Taylor . 8/7/01 6 $48,750,000 '07

Steve Francis .. 9/1/99,8/26/02 4+6 $14,124,582+$85mill p-opt '08
Stephon Marbury . 7/18/96,3/13/99,10/7/03 3+6+4 $5.67+$70.9+$76mill '09
Malik Rose ..... 7/26/02 7 $42 million p-opt '07

Channing Frye .. 7/2/05 4 $10,138,889 rc t-opt '08+09
Nate Robinson .. 7/2/05 4 $5,576,499 rc t-opt '08+09
David Lee ...... 7/1/05 4 $4,566,033 rc t-opt '08+09

Quentin Richardson 7/29/04 6 $43.5 million p-opt '09
Jerome James .... 8/2/05 5 $30 million '10

Renaldo Balkman . 7/5/06 4 $5,870,217 rc t-opt '09+10
Mardy Collins ... 7/5/06 4 $4,769,702 rc t-opt '09+10

Eddy Curry ...... 10/4/05 6 $60 million p-opt '09
Jamal Crawford .. 8/5/04 7 $55.44 million p-opt '09
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Old 07-11-2006, 01:11 AM   #97
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btw. I don't know what that has to do with Renaldo Balkman... just saw some people talking about Knicks and trades and Lebron and depth charts and all that and thought I'd post it - I'm a Magic fan but I love trying to manipulate the numbers...

If I were the knicks I'd try to sucker someone into a deal wiht a combo of expiring Mo Taylor's contract + one of the bad ones (eg. Jerome James) and say David Lee and take back a 'bad contract' that expires in '09 to make an even bigger reduction in salary at that point.
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Old 07-11-2006, 02:03 PM   #98
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Balkman just had 13 points and 13 rebounds against ron artest.....
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