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Old 06-13-2007, 08:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

What argument? Please post link.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

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Originally Posted by SsKSpurs21
LOL, when i first read this title thread, i knew without a doubt that my boy poeticism would come in here and throw down his novel.

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Old 06-13-2007, 09:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

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Originally Posted by JtotheIzzo
Its like saying Andrew ridgley was the best member of WHAM!



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Old 06-13-2007, 09:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
Russel is better than greater than Jordan, easily. Averaging 30ppg is easier than averaging 22rpg for the Career of Russel, and 16ppg. On top of that, its not close in regards to Titles.

Tim Duncan is easily greater than Shaq. Here are their career numbers.

Here are Tim Duncan and Shaq's career numbers and accomplishments

Lets take it to the scorecard as it stands right NOW:

titles: Shaq 4, Duncan 3
finals mvps: Shaq 3, duncan 3
season mvps: Shaq 1, Duncan 2
1st team all nba: Shaq 7, Duncan 9
1st team all defense: Shaq 0, Duncan 7 (Shaq only has 3 2nd team all defense!)
Shaq career: 25.9ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.8apg, 2.8bpg
Duncan Career: 21.8 ppg, 11.9rpg, 3.2apg, 2.4bpg

Now lets discuss the obvious. Shaq has been in the league 5 more years than Duncan, but only has one more title, both even in finals mvps, Duncan with one more season mvp at 2-1. Here is where it gets shocking: Shaq has been in the league over 14+ years, but only 7 first team all nba elections? That a mere 50%! Also, Shaq has never, not even once been voted first team all defense- with only 3, count it 3 total 2ND TEAM all defense selections! Wow! He's a bigger defensive liability than Steve Nash! Even with all this "dominant" scoring, career wise he leads Duncan by only four points in career average! It is obvious that all you who swear by Shaq's dominance have been utterly duped!

Anyone please look at these numbers and prove Shaq is better than Duncan! According to their career numbers and stats, Duncan is already ahead of Shaq, and its not even close! One more title and finals mvp will simply be icing on the cake.

Here are a few additional points.
TD teammates: at best in a 15 and 5 David Robinson in 2003, Tony Parker (good but not great), Manu (inconsistent) Ginobli, Bruce Bowen (could there be more of an offfensive liability in the starting lineup no less), Malik Rose (!), and Stephen Jackson (sometimes clutch, most other times a saga of turnovers and bad shots, and older version of Robert Horry (clutch but very limited), and old Michael Finley (streaky but classy), and Brent Barry (even more streaky)

Shaq's Teammates: Kobe Bryant (wow, could you have a better "sidekick"?), Dwayne Wade (I guess you can!), Penny Hardaway (good enough to be the Lebron of the mid 90s), Derek Fisher (cluth shooter, his jumper took only 1.3 seconds in .4 of game time to win!), a very Spry Robert Horry (how can you have Kobe, Horry, and Fisher on one team? Too much clutchness), etc..

Advantage? Shaq by far. Kobe and Wade together are better than all TD teammates combined.

Coaching? Well, Phil Jackson has won 9 titles, Greg Pop (maybe) 4. However its still not that close. When Phil came to the Lakers, he already had 6 titles. When Pop became coach of the Spurs? He'd won 0 (zero), and hadn't won at the college ranks either.

So again, to sum it up, Shaq had so much more to work with than TD, and has done so much less. If TD wins his 4th (now up 3-0 in the finals), he will be ahead in every other career statistic, accomplishment comfortably at least; some categories he is so far ahead it is embarrassing (to Shaq), like first team all-defense (7-0).

Yes Bill Russel is greater than Jordan, and Tim Duncan is greater than Shaq. Satisfied?

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Old 06-13-2007, 09:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
Russel is better than greater than Jordan, easily. Averaging 30ppg is easier than averaging 22rpg for the Career of Russel, and 16ppg. On top of that, its not close in regards to Titles.

Tim Duncan is easily greater than Shaq. Here are their career numbers.

Here are Tim Duncan and Shaq's career numbers and accomplishments

Lets take it to the scorecard as it stands right NOW:

titles: Shaq 4, Duncan 3
finals mvps: Shaq 3, duncan 3
season mvps: Shaq 1, Duncan 2
1st team all nba: Shaq 7, Duncan 9
1st team all defense: Shaq 0, Duncan 7 (Shaq only has 3 2nd team all defense!)
Shaq career: 25.9ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.8apg, 2.8bpg
Duncan Career: 21.8 ppg, 11.9rpg, 3.2apg, 2.4bpg

Now lets discuss the obvious. Shaq has been in the league 5 more years than Duncan, but only has one more title, both even in finals mvps, Duncan with one more season mvp at 2-1. Here is where it gets shocking: Shaq has been in the league over 14+ years, but only 7 first team all nba elections? That a mere 50%! Also, Shaq has never, not even once been voted first team all defense- with only 3, count it 3 total 2ND TEAM all defense selections! Wow! He's a bigger defensive liability than Steve Nash! Even with all this "dominant" scoring, career wise he leads Duncan by only four points in career average! It is obvious that all you who swear by Shaq's dominance have been utterly duped!

Anyone please look at these numbers and prove Shaq is better than Duncan! According to their career numbers and stats, Duncan is already ahead of Shaq, and its not even close! One more title and finals mvp will simply be icing on the cake.

Here are a few additional points.
TD teammates: at best in a 15 and 5 David Robinson in 2003, Tony Parker (good but not great), Manu (inconsistent) Ginobli, Bruce Bowen (could there be more of an offfensive liability in the starting lineup no less), Malik Rose (!), and Stephen Jackson (sometimes clutch, most other times a saga of turnovers and bad shots, and older version of Robert Horry (clutch but very limited), and old Michael Finley (streaky but classy), and Brent Barry (even more streaky)

Shaq's Teammates: Kobe Bryant (wow, could you have a better "sidekick"?), Dwayne Wade (I guess you can!), Penny Hardaway (good enough to be the Lebron of the mid 90s), Derek Fisher (cluth shooter, his jumper took only 1.3 seconds in .4 of game time to win!), a very Spry Robert Horry (how can you have Kobe, Horry, and Fisher on one team? Too much clutchness), etc..

Advantage? Shaq by far. Kobe and Wade together are better than all TD teammates combined.

Coaching? Well, Phil Jackson has won 9 titles, Greg Pop (maybe) 4. However its still not that close. When Phil came to the Lakers, he already had 6 titles. When Pop became coach of the Spurs? He'd won 0 (zero), and hadn't won at the college ranks either.

So again, to sum it up, Shaq had so much more to work with than TD, and has done so much less. If TD wins his 4th (now up 3-0 in the finals), he will be ahead in every other career statistic, accomplishment comfortably at least; some categories he is so far ahead it is embarrassing (to Shaq), like first team all-defense (7-0).

Yes Bill Russel is greater than Jordan, and Tim Duncan is greater than Shaq. Satisfied?

Championships

Shaq 4
Duncan 4

Finals M.V.Ps
Shaq 3
Duncan 3 (Parker Will Win It)

Finals Apperances

Shaq 6
Duncan 4

Teams In Finals

Shaq 3
Duncan 1

Beat Jordan

Shaq Yes
Duncan No

Strike Title

Shaq No
Duncan Yes

Advantage SHAQ

Career Stats

Shaq > Duncan

Shaq's are already going down because of age, Duncans will fall dramatically if he plays to the same age that Shaq plays. When it is over Duncan will lead in nothing but Assists.

98-99

Duncan wins strike title.
Duncan has Robinson who is still good, Kerr, Elie, Johnson and Elliot. This cast is much better then Shaq's cast with a 19 and 1/2 old Kobe.
Duncan beats Ewingless Knicks.
No Strike and Duncan doesn't win this title.
Bulls stay together one more year, no title.
Kobe and Lakers have full year to gel, no title.
No Strike Shaq beats Duncan head to head again.

99-00

Duncan doesn't get injured and Shaq puts up 37 15 5 3 versus Robinson and Duncan and Spurs lose to Shaq again.

00-01

Duncan is swept as number 1 seed by Lakers. Losing the last two games by 30 points.

01-02

Duncan wins M.V.P. and is once again outed by Lakers

02-03

Duncan's only real win.

03-04

Duncan loses to Lakers again blowing 2-0 lead with homecourt advantage and a Gary Payton that doesn't fit the system as a liability.

04-05

Shaq Sporting News M.V.P.
Wade doesn't get injured versus Pistons Shaq beats Duncan in Finals.

28 Year Old Shaq versus 28 Year Old Duncan.

Series Results

Shaq 4
Duncan 1

Shaq 37 15 5 3
Duncan 23 12 4 2

All NBA 1st Teams For Shaq If He Is Considered A Forward Center Like Duncan.

Every Year Except this last year and possibly 92-93 and 05-06.

Number of All Defensive First Teams For Duncan If Ben Wallace and Duncan are both considered Power Forwards and only 1 can take the spot. 3 not 7.

Number of Coaches in the history of the world and who they take.

Shaq 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Duncan 1 (Greg Pop)
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:49 PM   #21
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
Russel is better than greater than Jordan, easily. Averaging 30ppg is easier than averaging 22rpg for the Career of Russel, and 16ppg. On top of that, its not close in regards to Titles.

Tim Duncan is easily greater than Shaq. Here are their career numbers.

Here are Tim Duncan and Shaq's career numbers and accomplishments

Lets take it to the scorecard as it stands right NOW:

titles: Shaq 4, Duncan 3
finals mvps: Shaq 3, duncan 3
season mvps: Shaq 1, Duncan 2
1st team all nba: Shaq 7, Duncan 9
1st team all defense: Shaq 0, Duncan 7 (Shaq only has 3 2nd team all defense!)
Shaq career: 25.9ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.8apg, 2.8bpg
Duncan Career: 21.8 ppg, 11.9rpg, 3.2apg, 2.4bpg

Now lets discuss the obvious. Shaq has been in the league 5 more years than Duncan, but only has one more title, both even in finals mvps, Duncan with one more season mvp at 2-1. Here is where it gets shocking: Shaq has been in the league over 14+ years, but only 7 first team all nba elections? That a mere 50%! Also, Shaq has never, not even once been voted first team all defense- with only 3, count it 3 total 2ND TEAM all defense selections! Wow! He's a bigger defensive liability than Steve Nash! Even with all this "dominant" scoring, career wise he leads Duncan by only four points in career average! It is obvious that all you who swear by Shaq's dominance have been utterly duped!

Anyone please look at these numbers and prove Shaq is better than Duncan! According to their career numbers and stats, Duncan is already ahead of Shaq, and its not even close! One more title and finals mvp will simply be icing on the cake.

Here are a few additional points.
TD teammates: at best in a 15 and 5 David Robinson in 2003, Tony Parker (good but not great), Manu (inconsistent) Ginobli, Bruce Bowen (could there be more of an offfensive liability in the starting lineup no less), Malik Rose (!), and Stephen Jackson (sometimes clutch, most other times a saga of turnovers and bad shots, and older version of Robert Horry (clutch but very limited), and old Michael Finley (streaky but classy), and Brent Barry (even more streaky)

Shaq's Teammates: Kobe Bryant (wow, could you have a better "sidekick"?), Dwayne Wade (I guess you can!), Penny Hardaway (good enough to be the Lebron of the mid 90s), Derek Fisher (cluth shooter, his jumper took only 1.3 seconds in .4 of game time to win!), a very Spry Robert Horry (how can you have Kobe, Horry, and Fisher on one team? Too much clutchness), etc..

Advantage? Shaq by far. Kobe and Wade together are better than all TD teammates combined.

Coaching? Well, Phil Jackson has won 9 titles, Greg Pop (maybe) 4. However its still not that close. When Phil came to the Lakers, he already had 6 titles. When Pop became coach of the Spurs? He'd won 0 (zero), and hadn't won at the college ranks either.

So again, to sum it up, Shaq had so much more to work with than TD, and has done so much less. If TD wins his 4th (now up 3-0 in the finals), he will be ahead in every other career statistic, accomplishment comfortably at least; some categories he is so far ahead it is embarrassing (to Shaq), like first team all-defense (7-0).

Yes Bill Russel is greater than Jordan, and Tim Duncan is greater than Shaq. Satisfied?


Your criticism of Duncan's teammates just to make him seem greater are laughable at best.

Tony Parker isn't that good? In the past he was inconsistent and choked in the playoffs, but he's always been solid enough to play point guard on that team. Furthermore, he's averaging 25 points in the finals right now, and is primed to win finals MVP.

Ginobli is inconsistent? Maybe. But he took over in those 2005 playoffs, he can shoot the 3, and he, along with Tony Parker, can push the tempo and allow the spurs to be a great defensive team who can also "Run" when they get oppurtunies. And most importantly, he's extremely clutch and willing to do whatever it takes for the taem to win, including coming off the bench to allow an aging Michael Finley to start.

Bowen is Not a liability on offense. The guy is not only clutch from the 3, but damn-near automatic when left open. To say he is a liability on offense is to deny the importance of spreading the floor for Duncan to operate, which he does brilliantly. And i haven't even talked about his SHUT-DOWN defense, where he guards everyone from Steve Nash to Lebron James, never complains, and does arguably the best job in the league on ALL of these players.

Michael Finley? He's not a great flashy player, but again, he is great from 3 and is a huge reason why the Spurs are NUMBER 1 in 3pt% in this years playoffs. He drills those 3's and keeps the defense honest, allowing Duncan to put up numbers that people thought he had become incapable of putting up.

Now, notice that i've said great things about Duncan's teammates, but that does not mean I think Duncan is a lesser player. To give a short rant, watching people tear down superstars teammates to make said superstar seem superior is getting old, and having great teammates does not make a player any less great.

Anyway, to stay on topic.

Shaq's Prime>Duncan's Prime

Duncan's Career>Shaq's Career

IMO of course.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:51 PM   #22
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Town-Raised
Championships

Shaq 4
Duncan 4

Finals M.V.Ps
Shaq 3
Duncan 3 (Parker Will Win It)

Finals Apperances

Shaq 6
Duncan 4

Teams In Finals

Shaq 3
Duncan 1

Beat Jordan

Shaq Yes
Duncan No

Strike Title

Shaq No
Duncan Yes

Advantage SHAQ

Career Stats

Shaq > Duncan

Shaq's are already going down because of age, Duncans will fall dramatically if he plays to the same age that Shaq plays. When it is over Duncan will lead in nothing but Assists.

98-99

Duncan wins strike title.
Duncan has Robinson who is still good, Kerr, Elie, Johnson and Elliot. This cast is much better then Shaq's cast with a 19 and 1/2 old Kobe.
Duncan beats Ewingless Knicks.
No Strike and Duncan doesn't win this title.
Bulls stay together one more year, no title.
Kobe and Lakers have full year to gel, no title.
No Strike Shaq beats Duncan head to head again.

99-00

Duncan doesn't get injured and Shaq puts up 37 15 5 3 versus Robinson and Duncan and Spurs lose to Shaq again.

00-01

Duncan is swept as number 1 seed by Lakers. Losing the last two games by 30 points.

01-02

Duncan wins M.V.P. and is once again outed by Lakers

02-03

Duncan's only real win.

03-04

Duncan loses to Lakers again blowing 2-0 lead with homecourt advantage and a Gary Payton that doesn't fit the system as a liability.

04-05

Shaq Sporting News M.V.P.
Wade doesn't get injured versus Pistons Shaq beats Duncan in Finals.

28 Year Old Shaq versus 28 Year Old Duncan.

Series Results

Shaq 4
Duncan 1

Shaq 37 15 5 3
Duncan 23 12 4 2

All NBA 1st Teams For Shaq If He Is Considered A Forward Center Like Duncan.

Every Year Except this last year and possibly 92-93 and 05-06.

Number of All Defensive First Teams For Duncan If Ben Wallace and Duncan are both considered Power Forwards and only 1 can take the spot. 3 not 7.

Number of Coaches in the history of the world and who they take.

Shaq 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Duncan 1 (Greg Pop)

Beat Jordan? Well since you are making excuses for Shaq, why not Jordan after taking 2 years off? You cannot have it both ways, however you may want to. EXCUSES FOR SHAQ MEANS EXCUSES FOR EVERYONE ELSE. So the Spurs beat in inexperienced Laker team in 99, poor Kobe was only 191/2? What about the Spurs when Derek Anderson was heart not 10 games before the 2001 playoffs, and could barely take the court against the Lakers? What about Tony Parker being 19 when they drafted him and losing to the Lakers because of his inexperience? Same goes for Ginobli being a rookie in 2002-03? Strike shortened season? Were the Spurs spotted a game or 2 against the Lakers? Didn't the Lakers have the same opportunity as the Spurs? If the league wanted the no records from that year to count, they would have cancelled the season. I guarantee if the Lakers had won we'd be hearing "4-peat!" instead of 3, and you'd be telling me how TD couldn't even beat the Lakers in with a 19 year old Kobe, in a strike shortened season!
In closing, you are unequivocally an idiot. Your logic is non-existent, or so subjective it is laughable. Again, as I've already noted, your shifting rules for one player or team (Shaq and the Lakers) always make Shaq defeats some trange, unnatural exception, and a team you don't like (TD and the Spurs) success always unearned or undeserved. This is textbook bias; in some countries synonymous with stupidity.
My earlier post about not communicating any ideas with sentient beings about anything, less you spread your viral knowledge to the detriment of us all, applies to you directly.

Last edited by poeticism707 : 06-13-2007 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:56 PM   #23
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
Russel is better than greater than Jordan, easily. Averaging 30ppg is easier than averaging 22rpg for the Career of Russel, and 16ppg. On top of that, its not close in regards to Titles.

Tim Duncan is easily greater than Shaq. Here are their career numbers.

Here are Tim Duncan and Shaq's career numbers and accomplishments

Lets take it to the scorecard as it stands right NOW:

titles: Shaq 4, Duncan 3
finals mvps: Shaq 3, duncan 3
season mvps: Shaq 1, Duncan 2
1st team all nba: Shaq 7, Duncan 9
1st team all defense: Shaq 0, Duncan 7 (Shaq only has 3 2nd team all defense!)
Shaq career: 25.9ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.8apg, 2.8bpg
Duncan Career: 21.8 ppg, 11.9rpg, 3.2apg, 2.4bpg

Now lets discuss the obvious. Shaq has been in the league 5 more years than Duncan, but only has one more title, both even in finals mvps, Duncan with one more season mvp at 2-1. Here is where it gets shocking: Shaq has been in the league over 14+ years, but only 7 first team all nba elections? That a mere 50%! Also, Shaq has never, not even once been voted first team all defense- with only 3, count it 3 total 2ND TEAM all defense selections! Wow! He's a bigger defensive liability than Steve Nash! Even with all this "dominant" scoring, career wise he leads Duncan by only four points in career average! It is obvious that all you who swear by Shaq's dominance have been utterly duped!

Anyone please look at these numbers and prove Shaq is better than Duncan! According to their career numbers and stats, Duncan is already ahead of Shaq, and its not even close! One more title and finals mvp will simply be icing on the cake.

Here are a few additional points.
TD teammates: at best in a 15 and 5 David Robinson in 2003, Tony Parker (good but not great), Manu (inconsistent) Ginobli, Bruce Bowen (could there be more of an offfensive liability in the starting lineup no less), Malik Rose (!), and Stephen Jackson (sometimes clutch, most other times a saga of turnovers and bad shots, and older version of Robert Horry (clutch but very limited), and old Michael Finley (streaky but classy), and Brent Barry (even more streaky)

Shaq's Teammates: Kobe Bryant (wow, could you have a better "sidekick"?), Dwayne Wade (I guess you can!), Penny Hardaway (good enough to be the Lebron of the mid 90s), Derek Fisher (cluth shooter, his jumper took only 1.3 seconds in .4 of game time to win!), a very Spry Robert Horry (how can you have Kobe, Horry, and Fisher on one team? Too much clutchness), etc..

Advantage? Shaq by far. Kobe and Wade together are better than all TD teammates combined.

Coaching? Well, Phil Jackson has won 9 titles, Greg Pop (maybe) 4. However its still not that close. When Phil came to the Lakers, he already had 6 titles. When Pop became coach of the Spurs? He'd won 0 (zero), and hadn't won at the college ranks either.

So again, to sum it up, Shaq had so much more to work with than TD, and has done so much less. If TD wins his 4th (now up 3-0 in the finals), he will be ahead in every other career statistic, accomplishment comfortably at least; some categories he is so far ahead it is embarrassing (to Shaq), like first team all-defense (7-0).

Yes Bill Russel is greater than Jordan, and Tim Duncan is greater than Shaq. Satisfied?

Wow
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:02 PM   #24
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

Championships

Shaq 4
Duncan 4

Finals M.V.P.s'

Shaq 3
Duncan 3

Finals Appearances

Shaq 6
Duncan 4

Number of Teams

Shaq 3
Duncan 1

3-Peat

Shaq Yes
Duncan No

Back to Back

Shaq Yes
Duncan No

Head To Head

Shaq 3>Duncan 2

Best Seasons

Shaq>Duncan

Career Stats

Shaq>Duncan

These are all facts and there is no twisting of any logic here.

You use your twisting of Logic to say Duncan had less in comparison to Shaq in term of teammates, I just retwist it around and without a strike season and Duncan being injured in 99-00 (they meet Lakers in second round) and they meet in the Finals in 05 and it ends up head to head Shaq 6 Duncan 1.

Shaq is better then Duncan career and prime and the only argument you have for Duncan is All NBA Team and All Defensive Team. Shaq is clearly the victor in everything else. Everything else and there is no argument.
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:12 PM   #25
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Town-Raised
Championships

Shaq 4
Duncan 4

Finals M.V.P.s'

Shaq 3
Duncan 3

Finals Appearances

Shaq 6
Duncan 4

Number of Teams

Shaq 3
Duncan 1

3-Peat

Shaq Yes
Duncan No

Back to Back

Shaq Yes
Duncan No

Head To Head

Shaq 3>Duncan 2

Best Seasons

Shaq>Duncan

Career Stats

Shaq>Duncan

These are all facts and there is no twisting of any logic here.

You use your twisting of Logic to say Duncan had less in comparison to Shaq in term of teammates, I just retwist it around and without a strike season and Duncan being injured in 99-00 (they meet Lakers in second round) and they meet in the Finals in 05 and it ends up head to head Shaq 6 Duncan 1.

Shaq is better then Duncan career and prime and the only argument you have for Duncan is All NBA Team and All Defensive Team. Shaq is clearly the victor in everything else. Everything else and there is no argument.

What is the point in responding? You didn't even address my counter points. Cutting and pasting the same response every time, without answering questions or challenges won't work, you know. I cut and pasted from my other thread, but defended each and every line with pertinent points. All you have done is re-post the same, disproved response. Also, Duncan was hurt in 2000, and could not defend his title (injured before the playoffs). I guess Shaq first title has an asterisk for not beating the defending champs Tim Duncan and the Spurs, huh?

Last edited by poeticism707 : 06-13-2007 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:36 PM   #26
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
What is the point in responding? You didn't even address my counter points. Cutting and pasting the same response every time, without answering questions or challenges won't work, you know. I cut and pasted from my other thread, but defended each and every line with pertinent points. All you have done is re-post the same, disproved response. Also, Duncan was hurt in 2000, and could not defend his title (injured before the playoffs). I guess Shaq first title has an asterisk for not beating the defending champs Tim Duncan and the Spurs, huh?

You made no counter points. I retyped everything there was no cutting and pasting. Read the first post and the second and notice the differences.

Your argument for Duncan over Shaq is as follows.

Duncan has 1 more M.V.P
Duncan leads Shaq 7-0 On Defensive Teams
Duncan has one more All NBA First Team.

All other stats are even or in favor of Shaq.

They are even in Finals M.V.P.'s and Championships
Shaq is ahead in Finals trips.
Their career stats are completely even with the exception of Shaq averaging a FULL FOUR POINTS MORE then Duncan.

You leave out these stats.

Scoring Titles

Shaq 2
Duncan 0

PER Number Of Times Leading The League

Shaq 5 All In A Row
Duncan 0

Address PER and the Scroing titles Duncan doesn't have.

Address the fact that Shaq is more dominating over Duncan on Offense then Duncan is dominating over Shaq on Defense.
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Town-Raised
You made no counter points. I retyped everything there was no cutting and pasting. Read the first post and the second and notice the differences.

Your argument for Duncan over Shaq is as follows.

Duncan has 1 more M.V.P
Duncan leads Shaq 7-0 On Defensive Teams
Duncan has one more All NBA First Team.

All other stats are even or in favor of Shaq.

They are even in Finals M.V.P.'s and Championships
Shaq is ahead in Finals trips.
Their career stats are completely even with the exception of Shaq averaging a FULL FOUR POINTS MORE then Duncan.

You leave out these stats.

Scoring Titles

Shaq 2
Duncan 0

PER Number Of Times Leading The League

Shaq 5 All In A Row
Duncan 0

Address PER and the Scroing titles Duncan doesn't have.

Address the fact that Shaq is more dominating over Duncan on Offense then Duncan is dominating over Shaq on Defense.

Finally, these are great points at last! But ultimately, wrong. According the ultimate measuring stick by which great players, especially big men are measured by, namely titles, Duncan and Shaq are dead even (and Duncan may be ahead in finals mvps 4-3 after these finals). So how you say Shaq has been more dominant offensively than Duncan Defensively? At best they cancel each other out, leaving every other statistic and achievement, in which Duncan still dominates. Since Duncan defensive accomplishments and Shaq's offensive dominance are a wash, you then have to consider Duncan 22ppg career average, which easily puts him over the top (since Shaq is an obvious defensive liability, hence 3 2nd team all-defense, 0 first team all defense). Add this the fact that Shaq had so much more in terms of teammates (Kobe and Wade, need I say more?) and coaching (Jackson and Riley, need I say more?), Tim Duncan outperformed Shaq so badly, again with so much less, it is embarrasing (to Shaq). Also, per? Tim Duncan is consistenly among league leaders, so what of Shaq having a 5 seasons leading in PER?

Last edited by poeticism707 : 06-13-2007 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:04 PM   #28
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

I don't think that you can compare stats not really. The Spur's system is famous for the fact that it makes players sacrifice stats for the system.
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:21 PM   #29
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWay
I will never consider Duncan greater than Shaq, no matter how many rings he wins.

Shaq at his best was a lot better than Duncan at his best. Shaq was a true dominating force. Duncan was/still is a silent assassin and gets the job done but Shaq was flat out dominant.

IMO, Shaq will always be greater. Now, speaking of charisma and how they revolutionized the game and a huge edge goes to Shaq.

Yes, Duncan may achieve more but people should always remember Shaq as better because he simply was better. Easy as that. I don't give a rats ass about achivements, I know Shaq was a better player at his best and has many achievements too if that's what you care about the most.

Shaq is the answer for me.



Amen.

Your avatar is not that gay.

Just a bit gay.
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:29 PM   #30
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Default Re: HOW CAN people compare SHAQ&DUNCAN and say Jordan>Russel????

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
Beat Jordan? Well since you are making excuses for Shaq, why not Jordan after taking 2 years off? You cannot have it both ways, however you may want to. EXCUSES FOR SHAQ MEANS EXCUSES FOR EVERYONE ELSE. So the Spurs beat in inexperienced Laker team in 99, poor Kobe was only 191/2? What about the Spurs when Derek Anderson was heart not 10 games before the 2001 playoffs, and could barely take the court against the Lakers? What about Tony Parker being 19 when they drafted him and losing to the Lakers because of his inexperience? Same goes for Ginobli being a rookie in 2002-03? Strike shortened season? Were the Spurs spotted a game or 2 against the Lakers? Didn't the Lakers have the same opportunity as the Spurs? If the league wanted the no records to count from that year to count, they would have cancelled the season. I guarantee if the Lakers had won we'd be hearing "4-peat!" instead of 3, and you'd be telling me how TD couldn't even beat the Lakers in with a 19 year old Kobe, in a strike shortened season!
In closing, you are unequivocally an idiot. Your logic is non-existent, or so subjective it is laughable. Again, as I've already noted, your shifting rules for one player or team (Shaq and the Lakers) always make Shaq defeats some trange, unnatural exception, and a team you don't like (TD and the Spurs) success always unearned or undeserved. This is textbook bias; in some countries synonymous with stupidity.
My earlier post about not communicating any ideas with sentient beings about anything, less you spread your viral knowledge to the detriment of us all, applies to you directly.

You annoy me greatly. The guy used the exact same argument you use every time, except he highlighted Shaq's statistical advantages instead of Duncan's, and pointing out issues in the Spurs title runs instead of the Lakers. So you call him an idiot, say he has no logic, and call him biased. Well guess what? Your arguments are completely parallel. Everything he did is exactly what you did.

In addition, you completely throw out any non statistical arguments, simply because they automatically favor Shaq. He was just so dominant in his prime that it's ridiculous to claim that Duncan was better than him. And if you're arguing careers, well they are basically equal, and as I just noted Shaq had a stretch where he was arguably the most dominant player ever to play the game.

And for your defensive argument, it amazes me how you just throw numbers out there and claim Duncan >>>>>> Shaq. Duncan may be the better defender, but it is alot easier for a player who plays like a center, the position that gets the most respect defensively, to win defensive first teams among 2 slots and without their stiffest competition. Shaq, never advertised as a defensive force (although especially early in his career he was very good), had to go against much better competition for one spot. Those awards mean almost nothing.
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