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Old 09-10-2018, 02:01 AM   #16
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Default Re: Do the 85/86 Bulls get swept by the Celtics with prime George Gervin?

Originally Posted by NBAGOAT

I’m not saying Jordan’s stunted pippens growth, however I do challenge how much credit you give mj to pippens growth. Giannis is strong example of developing without “mentorship” from another player.

Also what the bulls do in 90 with gervin has nothing to do with the topic either. Op is asking if they get swept, they dont

It's not me giving MJ credit for pippen

Any coach, player and Pippen himself will credit MJ with his development

“Would Pippen have been great someplace else?

Michael absolutely killed Scottie in practice every day for his first two years. Mike just tore Pip up. He made Pip learn how to compete and forced him into playing hard. Had there not been someone to challenge Scottie like that, I’m not sure what would’ve happened to him... No.... Michael made him a man.

Michael made him a man and Doug [Collins] did a great job with him in his first year. And he - Collins - he had Michael beat on him (Pippen) every day in practice and Michael beat him to death.

The practices were great because you could see him at the end of the year start to grow and start to fight Michael."

Yeah I know, what does Krause know about the bulls, their players and draft picks right?

Again, pippen is no Giannis - he needed MJ to develop into a much LESSER scorer than Giannis - according to Krause, that's not MJ holding him back - that's pippen lucky to have mj
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:34 AM   #17
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Default Re: Do the 85/86 Bulls get swept by the Celtics with prime George Gervin?

Didn't he have a 40-point game in his last season with the bulls I always forget that they played together it would have been real cool to watch them actually gel
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:59 PM   #18
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Default Re: Do the 85/86 Bulls get swept by the Celtics with prime George Gervin?

Originally Posted by Psileas
The thing is, if the Bulls wanted to become somewhat less predictable, Gervin could have some bigger role in that series. Did the Bulls really have to play with a limited guard like Kyle Macy as a traditional PG starter instead of trying to use a Jordan-Gervin tandem for some time, with Jordan bringing down the ball, which is what they tried with Jordan in '89 anyways? As an alternative, couldn't they use Gervin a bit as a SF and give Woolridge some more rest (assuming he doesn't ever play PF)? His playing time was ridiculously low, and that's someone who averaged more than 20 ppg in the previous season.
Anyway, still I don't think they'd co-exist as well as Jordan-Pippen did. Gervin didn't really care much about defense, he was a much better scorer than passer/playmaker and, although Jordan was more versatile, I don't think he'd love to share the spotlight with another elite scorer who wasn't really great at something else. Pippen and later Rodman were the perfect teammates for him, the perfect dirty job-doers, who were not elite enough at scoring to steal much of Jordan's glory.

Good points! I think MJ and Ice WOULD have been a force. And would have been fun to watch. U could play them as a big backcourt with MJ running the PG. Or u could play them at SG and SF. BUT Pip was clearly a better compliment. Because with Ice, MJ would have to be the best passer and defender for the Bulls to compete on a high level. In addition to being a dominant scorer.

Scoring wise, of course Ice would take heat of MJ. Ice was the best SG in the world until MJ took that crown. But with Pip, MJ could save HELLA energy because Pip's floor game was on the same level. PLUS could still chip in with 21 PPG on top of it.

Now if u paired MJ with a Sidney Moncrief in that era, then that would have been TOTALLY DIFFERENT! Or even with Drexler because Clyde was just as good of a passer and rebounder. And while Drexler was never a great defender, he could be a very good defender. IN a perfect world, Ice has his drug issues under control. But prime Gervin with young MJ would have been AWESOME to watch together!
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:53 AM   #19
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Default Re: Do the 85/86 Bulls get swept by the Celtics with prime George Gervin?

Originally Posted by NBAGOAT
I only have one question then, who the hell built Giannis who has increased by 4-5ppg ever year of his career, even bigger progression than pippen. You make it seem like pippens progression was unprecedented when Giannis has done it even more drastically playing with no one.

When the hell did another player start getting more credit than yourself or your coach for your own development, itís comical.

I agree with what you're saying. I think an even better example would be Danny Granger. He improved his scoring by 5 points a year average for 4 years and did it without MJ. He was the closest to Pippen physically and skill wise than any other player I can think of.
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