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Old 09-12-2018, 12:55 AM   #1
Round Mound
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Default If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

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Old 09-12-2018, 12:57 AM   #2
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

No. Hill had a serviceable career post-injury while Penny was a non-factor.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

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Originally Posted by DJMcDonald
No. Hill had a serviceable career post-injury while Penny was a non-factor.

Check Penny´s play-off stats: 20.4 PPG on 44.8% FG, 6.2 APG, 4.7 RPG, 1.9 SPG, 0.8 BPG and 19.8 PER.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:06 AM   #4
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Shaq's best co-stars in order

1. Kobe
2. Penny
3. Wade
And Penny is closer in skill to Kobe than Dwayne Wade. Penny Hardaway was that good. He had to play next to a beast never seen in our lifetime named Shaquille O Neal. People forget Penny was being primed as the next best thing. Penny was amazing. One of the greatest "what ifs." Somehow forgotten but at the time you could argue Penny was more popular with America and mainstream basketball fans in general, than Grant Hill. Penny was so exciting and fun to watch. Can we all agree he was one of the most dynamic players of the 1990s? The next best guard. The equivalent today of Penny Hardaway and his bad luck with health would be someone like Derrick Rose from Chicago.

Last edited by LA Lakers : 09-12-2018 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:21 AM   #5
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Grant Hill was the best player on a championship GOAT level college team.

These things matter in HoF.

Also has a better international career, no?
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:30 AM   #6
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Hill has an extra year or two in his prime. Penny has his rookie year, 3 year prime and 2 ok years. Hill has his rookie year, 5 year prime, and a bunch of ok years.

Penny was great at his peak but really guys like webber, tim hardaway, kemp etc deserve way more hall consideration.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:51 AM   #7
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

I guess Ill be the one to die on Penny Hardaway Hill. This is so unfair to Penny. He had to defer and be second fiddle to a force of nature we'd never seen.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:54 AM   #8
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

And then got injured when he was entering his prime
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Penny never got his just due. No one was usurping Shaq. Not even Kobe in his heyday.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

So I guess the long and short of it is is that Penny was more fun to watch for me. Penny was more exciting than Grant Hill. Now that's just pure subjectivity, mind you. Again, Shaq was never usurped as the best player on his team. Only Hakeem was better during Shaq's reign. Yes, Id take young Orlando Shaq over David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning and Djkembe Mutombo
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:17 AM   #11
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Lakers
Shaq's best co-stars in order

1. Kobe
2. Penny
3. Wade
And Penny is closer in skill to Kobe than Dwayne Wade. Penny Hardaway was that good. He had to play next to a beast never seen in our lifetime named Shaquille O Neal. People forget Penny was being primed as the next best thing. Penny was amazing. One of the greatest "what ifs." Somehow forgotten but at the time you could argue Penny was more popular with America and mainstream basketball fans in general, than Grant Hill. Penny was so exciting and fun to watch. Can we all agree he was one of the most dynamic players of the 1990s? The next best guard. The equivalent today of Penny Hardaway and his bad luck with health would be someone like Derrick Rose from Chicago.

Wade in 2006 was better than Penny Hardaway in 95 and 96, and I'd argue at least as good in 2005. If Penny was Shaq's 2nd best sidekick ahead of Wade, it's only because Penny had more good years with a young Shaq while Wade caught Shaq at the tail end of his prime. 2006 Wade with 95 and 96 Shaq is a problem for the league, moreso than Shaq and Penny were.

Speaking generally no, Penny didn't have a HOF worthy career, even though he clearly had HOF level talent and a few hall of fame worthy seasons, but let's look at this objectively:

1) He had a solid rookie campaign in 94, solid numbers of 16/7/5, nothing league breaking. Webber was rookie of the year.

2) Great sophomore campaign in 95, 21/7/4, all-NBA, second banana on a Magic squad that got swept in the finals

3) Even better third year in 96, 22/7/4, third in MVP voting, carried the Magic for stretches with Shaq missing time, got swept out of the ECFs by the 72 win Bulls

4) Solo act in 97 with Shaq gone, 21/6/5, missed some games, got bounced in the first round( did drop a pair of 40 point games on the Heat along the way)

Annnnd then was never the same again. 4 seasons in, a good rookie campaign and a star for 3 years after that. You tell me if that constitutes HOF consideration?

Look, these two basically came into the league together. Hill got into the Hall 5 years after retiring for good.... at 40. Penny's not been in the league since 2008, but was basically LONG done as a player before that, and hasn't gotten in yet. And since these two were contemporaries, SURELY Penny got some consideration for this HOF class, or prior ones, and hasn't gotten in yet? Is it because there's not a spot for him, or he just has to wait his turn.....or has the current hall voters merely concluded that he just wasn't great for long enough, no championships, not enough individual accolades or anything noteworthy? If he's not in yet it's not by accident.

Grant Hill came in and was rookie of the year, posted better across the board stats(20/10/7), peaked higher as a scorer(26ppg), has more seasons as a great, all-NBA player, and was a prominent member of 2 Duke national title squads. He had 'slightly' better luck that allowed for 6 years of star/superstar level play( compared to 3 for Penny), came back as an all-star at 32 in 2004, and was able to remain a viable stater in Phoenix re-creating himself as a defensive player till his late 30's. Hill is in the hall for the same reasons Tmac is, he had *just enough * great seasons to counter the ones he lost due to injury. Had Penny been in 95 or 96 form through to 2000, then faded from injuries, he's in based on the precedence set with Tmac and Hill.

And let me finish with this, because I don't want to give the wrong impression: Penny at his best was one hell of a fukking player. He was more a 'MJ/Magic' mix in terms of style than Lebron, because he was never the scorer Lebron is, but was probably a little better scorer than Magic, but had those kinds of passing/facilitating instincts in a 6'7 package. Penny was good, DAMN good, but just wasn't for long enough.

Last edited by Phoenix : 09-12-2018 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:37 AM   #12
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Here's another thing is this comparison, while Penny was considered more of a passer I guess( hence the Magic comparison), Hill was putting up the same assist numbers, while giving you the same scoring numbers, with markedly better rebounding. I feel like nothing is lost taking out Penny and replacing him with Grant on those Magic squads, because skill-wise Hill is more than capable of doing what Penny did on those teams. He was in essence the successor to Pippen and precursor to Lebron for the modern Point-forward role. He sits right between those two. By 97, HILL was the one who people were saying was the heir apparent, not Penny: Remember this(?):



Yeah, that was becoming the general thought process at that time.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:49 AM   #13
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

The case about two players who were equally talented, lets concede for now that Hill and Penny were roughly equally talented in their pre-injury days even though some may disagree.

One player (Hill) had individually accomplished quite a bit more than the other (Penny).

And then the more accomplished player (Hill) made the HOF.

And so the question being asked is should the other player also made the HOF?

I think we'd have to assume it's based on them being equally talented but ignoring the individual accomplishments. Seems to me that's a bad premise.
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:20 AM   #14
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Lakers
Shaq's best co-stars in order

1. Kobe
2. Penny
3. Wade
And Penny is closer in skill to Kobe than Dwayne Wade. Penny Hardaway was that good. He had to play next to a beast never seen in our lifetime named Shaquille O Neal. People forget Penny was being primed as the next best thing. Penny was amazing. One of the greatest "what ifs." Somehow forgotten but at the time you could argue Penny was more popular with America and mainstream basketball fans in general, than Grant Hill. Penny was so exciting and fun to watch. Can we all agree he was one of the most dynamic players of the 1990s? The next best guard. The equivalent today of Penny Hardaway and his bad luck with health would be someone like Derrick Rose from Chicago.

Someone knows their NBA basketball.
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Neither should be in.
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