Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-12-2018, 06:30 AM   #16
HylianNightmare
The Magic are a trash
 
HylianNightmare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,028
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Not even close
HylianNightmare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 07:08 AM   #17
PeroAntic
Youngest MVP
 
PeroAntic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,463
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

He should be, based on how good he was. Penny's impact on the game is huge. The best player I have seen after Jordan.
PeroAntic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 07:20 AM   #18
aj1987
MH!
 
aj1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 21,566
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Lakers
Shaq's best co-stars in order

1. Kobe
2. Penny
3. Wade
And Penny is closer in skill to Kobe than Dwayne Wade. Penny Hardaway was that good. He had to play next to a beast never seen in our lifetime named Shaquille O Neal. People forget Penny was being primed as the next best thing. Penny was amazing. One of the greatest "what ifs." Somehow forgotten but at the time you could argue Penny was more popular with America and mainstream basketball fans in general, than Grant Hill. Penny was so exciting and fun to watch. Can we all agree he was one of the most dynamic players of the 1990s? The next best guard. The equivalent today of Penny Hardaway and his bad luck with health would be someone like Derrick Rose from Chicago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeroAntic
He should be, based on how good he was. Penny's impact on the game is huge. The best player I have seen after Jordan.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bullettooth
Someone knows their NBA basketball.
You're a known retard, but what the hell is wrong with the other two?
aj1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 07:52 AM   #19
JohnnySic
green is good
 
JohnnySic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 11,080
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Lakers
Shaq's best co-stars in order

1. Kobe
2. Penny
3. Wade
And Penny is closer in skill to Kobe than Dwayne Wade. Penny Hardaway was that good. He had to play next to a beast never seen in our lifetime named Shaquille O Neal. People forget Penny was being primed as the next best thing. Penny was amazing. One of the greatest "what ifs." Somehow forgotten but at the time you could argue Penny was more popular with America and mainstream basketball fans in general, than Grant Hill. Penny was so exciting and fun to watch. Can we all agree he was one of the most dynamic players of the 1990s? The next best guard. The equivalent today of Penny Hardaway and his bad luck with health would be someone like Derrick Rose from Chicago.
No he wasn't. Penny was not better than Wade and quite frankly its not close.

And to the topic at hand, no Penny should not make the hof. Not only did Hill end up having a longer, better career, but he was the better player to begin with. There's little to argue here.
JohnnySic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 08:26 AM   #20
Phoenix
Behold the Trollslayer
 
Phoenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 838
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeroAntic
He should be, based on how good he was. Penny's impact on the game is huge. The best player I have seen after Jordan.

Da fukk

Without giving it a second thought, there's probably 20 players that have come into the league in the past 20 years better than Penny.

Last edited by Phoenix : 09-12-2018 at 08:30 AM.
Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 11:10 AM   #21
PeroAntic
Youngest MVP
 
PeroAntic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,463
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Da fukk

Without giving it a second thought, there's probably 20 players that have come into the league in the past 20 years better than Penny.
Peak Penny? The guy was a different level. Unseen combination of body, mind and technical skill. Kobe had the skill, Lebron had the body, Kidd had the mind. Penny was all three into one.
PeroAntic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 11:16 AM   #22
Haymaker
NBA rookie of the year
 
Haymaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,188
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Peak Wade > Peak Kobe. Kobe's prime was longer, Wade dealt with injuries throughout his.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Lakers
Shaq's best co-stars in order

1. Kobe
2. Penny
3. Wade
And Penny is closer in skill to Kobe than Dwayne Wade. Penny Hardaway was that good. He had to play next to a beast never seen in our lifetime named Shaquille O Neal. People forget Penny was being primed as the next best thing. Penny was amazing. One of the greatest "what ifs." Somehow forgotten but at the time you could argue Penny was more popular with America and mainstream basketball fans in general, than Grant Hill. Penny was so exciting and fun to watch. Can we all agree he was one of the most dynamic players of the 1990s? The next best guard. The equivalent today of Penny Hardaway and his bad luck with health would be someone like Derrick Rose from Chicago.
Haymaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 12:02 PM   #23
tanibanana
Local High School Star
 
tanibanana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,486
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Hill got more injuries to battle and yet there is nothing to debate here. Better college years, better prime in the NBA, longer career, have more influence to the sport (more iconic player), etc.
tanibanana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 12:08 PM   #24
NBAGOAT
NBA lottery pick
 
NBAGOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Korea
Posts: 5,034
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeroAntic
Peak Penny? The guy was a different level. Unseen combination of body, mind and technical skill. Kobe had the skill, Lebron had the body, Kidd had the mind. Penny was all three into one.

But how the hell is penny better than shaq
NBAGOAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 12:23 PM   #25
BigShotBob
Good High School Starter
 
BigShotBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 919
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

"Peak" Penny was like...a season and a half. Don't let his bobble-head commercials fool you.

Though a lot of kids wanted to be like Penny. So there's that.
BigShotBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 12:28 PM   #26
Phoenix
Behold the Trollslayer
 
Phoenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 838
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeroAntic
Peak Penny? The guy was a different level. Unseen combination of body, mind and technical skill. Kobe had the skill, Lebron had the body, Kidd had the mind. Penny was all three into one.

Yes, peak Penny, who just off those attributes you list I would say didn't even peak higher than the guy we're comparing him to in this thread. Grant Hill had every bit the technical skill, IQ and body/athleticism. The guy was 38 and a starter on the Suns averaging 16/6/5 per 36, about 10 years past his prime and on whatever was left of his ankle. Let's reel off some players Penny clearly didn't peak higher than in the last 20 years:

Shaq
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Duncan
Kobe
Garnett
Wade
Dirk
Iverson
Tmac

Then, How about Harden? Westbrook? Anthony Davis? Kawhi pre-injury? What about Giannis? CP3? Was he better than Vince Carter in 2001 or 2005? What about Nash based on how much he transformed the Suns mid 2000's? Webber circa 2002? He's a running joke now, but did he peak higher than Dwight in 2011? Was he better than 2011 MVP Rose? You could probably argue the last few, but there's ALOT of players who quite clearly eclipsed Penny's best since his very brief heyday.

Last edited by Phoenix : 09-12-2018 at 12:34 PM.
Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 02:00 PM   #27
Nowoco
I hit open 5-foot jumpshots with ease
 
Nowoco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 280
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

No he shouldnt and I love Penny.

Grant Hill had a stellar college career and then a ridiculously good first 6 NBA years. After those awful injury years he was a more than serviceable player for nearly a decade. And he has a gold medal.

Penny really had only 4 prime seasons. After 1997 he was a shell of his former self and his numbers fell off a cliff.

Dont get me wrong, Hill is borderline but in because of the player we know he would have been but for the injuries. That and noone has a bad word to say about him. Penny had a similar career but it wasnt as long and neither was his prime. Plus he had a much less impressive college career.
Nowoco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 02:24 PM   #28
Phoenix
Behold the Trollslayer
 
Phoenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 838
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowoco
No he shouldnt and I love Penny.

Grant Hill had a stellar college career and then a ridiculously good first 6 NBA years. After those awful injury years he was a more than serviceable player for nearly a decade. And he has a gold medal.

Penny really had only 4 prime seasons. After 1997 he was a shell of his former self and his numbers fell off a cliff.

Dont get me wrong, Hill is borderline but in because of the player we know he would have been but for the injuries. That and noone has a bad word to say about him. Penny had a similar career but it wasnt as long and neither was his prime. Plus he had a much less impressive college career.

They weren't even 4 prime years. There's been lots of players who had better rookie campaigns, he was an emerging superstar his second year and legit MVP level superstar his third. His 4th year he missed 20+ plus games and wasn't playing at a higher level than the previous year when healthy. Penny peaked in 96, so really he had two really good/great years.
Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 02:25 PM   #29
PeroAntic
Youngest MVP
 
PeroAntic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,463
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Yes, peak Penny, who just off those attributes you list I would say didn't even peak higher than the guy we're comparing him to in this thread. Grant Hill had every bit the technical skill, IQ and body/athleticism. The guy was 38 and a starter on the Suns averaging 16/6/5 per 36, about 10 years past his prime and on whatever was left of his ankle. Let's reel off some players Penny clearly didn't peak higher than in the last 20 years:

Shaq
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Duncan
Kobe
Garnett
Wade
Dirk
Iverson
Tmac

Then, How about Harden? Westbrook? Anthony Davis? Kawhi pre-injury? What about Giannis? CP3? Was he better than Vince Carter in 2001 or 2005? What about Nash based on how much he transformed the Suns mid 2000's? Webber circa 2002? He's a running joke now, but did he peak higher than Dwight in 2011? Was he better than 2011 MVP Rose? You could probably argue the last few, but there's ALOT of players who quite clearly eclipsed Penny's best since his very brief heyday.
None of these players had the complete package like Penny. As a natural talent he was second only to MJ. Wade and Hill couldnt shoot like Penny, Rose didnt have his IQ, Nash/CP3 didnt have his body, Lebron/Giannis dont have his fluidity and skill, gunners like Carter/Durant dont have his passing ability. The rest are centers so its comparing apples with oranges.

Penny was unique. Because he was so unique, he needs to be in the HOF based on unique circumstances.
PeroAntic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 03:01 PM   #30
Phoenix
Behold the Trollslayer
 
Phoenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 838
Default Re: If Grant Hill maded it to the HOF, should Penny Hardaway also be inducted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeroAntic
None of these players had the complete package like Penny. As a natural talent he was second only to MJ. Wade and Hill couldnt shoot like Penny, Rose didnt have his IQ, Nash/CP3 didnt have his body, Lebron/Giannis dont have his fluidity and skill, gunners like Carter/Durant dont have his passing ability. The rest are centers so its comparing apples with oranges.

Penny was unique. Because he was so unique, he needs to be in the HOF based on unique circumstances.

Penny couldn't rebound like Hill, doesn't have a higher IQ than Lebron or his body or his passing, wasn't more fluid than Tmac or Kobe. Frankly if you want to go that route, Penny wasn't more 'gifted' than TMac in those areas. There are things these players did better than him as well, so nice try attempting to steer the conversation this way, but that's not how it works. Most of the players I listed earlier have definitive or at worst arguable cases for being higher impact, flat-out better and more productive players.

I'll just stick with the perimeter players since you want to go the 'apples/oranges' route with bigmen. Of course, doing so means you don't need to address the fact that he has absolutely no case over a Shaq or Duncan in terms of peak, but I'll play along. Wade was just a flat-out better player, whether he couldn't shoot as well or otherwise. So is Durant, so is Curry, so was Kobe. All of those players aren't just better, but significantly better. So is Harden and Westbrook. Hill had all of Penny's attributes, passing, scoring, with better rebounding and better across the board numbers as a result. Hill was AT WORST his equal, but I argued then and now that he was slightly better. The others are just better players on the floor, regardless of whatever particular skills you want to cherrypick that Penny may have been better at, or that he had all of these things in one package, ergo he's better......no. It's about the net results on the floor and how they translate over a career. Penny wasn't great enough for long enough, no team accolades, some all-star selections( a few undeserved), a couple of first team all-NBA. That's it. Even his best statline of 22/7/4 has been blown out the gym by numerous perimeter players the last 20 years. No-one has gotten in the HOF for 2 great years of basketball, and something abstract like 'uniqueness' isn't how this works, so your contention that this merits his inclusion is odd to say the least.

Last edited by Phoenix : 09-12-2018 at 03:10 PM.
Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:


Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:13 PM.






NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:

NBA Basketball

NBA Rumors

Basketball Blog

NBA Videos

Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
Instagram
YouTube
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy