Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-20-2007, 02:35 PM   #76
asd
High school junior varsity star
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 623
asd has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

Quote:
Originally Posted by CakeorDeath
Classic view of an economist. Only work hard enough to justify what you are getting paid.

In my opinion, the high cost of health care in the US is also in part perpetuated by practices and procedures that Americans are accustomed to. Many of us are ingrained with the desire always to have the biggest, best, most expensive, etc., and health care is no different. People here will go to the ER and get a CT scan if they have a fart that comes out wrong.

Looks like you've stumbled upon another basic principle of economics...consumers associate low cost with low value!


hey, when your close relative gets a serious condition or illness, go ahead and send him or her to that discount physician. Just tell that relative that they don't need the "biggest, best and most expensive" treatment available
asd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 02:36 PM   #77
CakeorDeath
Local High School Star
 
CakeorDeath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,556
CakeorDeath has decent reputation
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

Quote:
If he gets a person to quit smoking, he gets more money. If he gets them to lower their blood pressure, he gets more money. It's very incentive-based, which is how it should be

Don't know if its true (I live out West), but I heard on the radio that NYC is going to try an incentive-based program with the urban poor, paying them extra money to hold down a job, regularly schedule doctor visits, etc.

A little OT, but sort of relevant. Apparently it worked quite well in Mexico City.

Quote:
hey, when your close relative gets a serious condition or illness, go ahead and send him or her to that discount physician. Just tell that relative that they don't need the "biggest, best and most expensive" treatment available

2 problems with that:

1. Many visits to the doctor aren't for serious conditions or illness, but rather are for mundane reasons that don't require expensive exams and procedures.

2. "Biggest" and "most expensive" are frequently not the best, regardless of the product or consumer opinion. And even in the case where the most expensive is the best, it is rarely absolutely necessary.

But some doctors recognize that basic law of economics, and operate just like your average Best Buy salesman. The salesman makes more money if he convince you that you are better off with a 42" plasma TV when all you need is a 19" LCD. And a doctor can make more money if he can convince you that you need, say, a Spiral CT exam when a chest X-Ray will do just fine.

Last edited by CakeorDeath : 06-20-2007 at 02:51 PM.
CakeorDeath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 02:45 PM   #78
JtotheIzzo
Cavs eh? Ok then!
 
JtotheIzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Clevenada
Posts: 13,803
JtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharas
because other stuff also does?

don't know that it does, never been to usa. but generally, i really doubt that medical research would fall significantly. greater competition would again force companies to come up with new stuff. their profits would maybe suffer a little, but they'd have to put even more effort in research to stay competitive.


in the drug game only the top twenty global companies do serious research, and they can only patent a drug for twenty years (ten to fifteen of which is spent developing the drug before it hits the market).

after this time period anybody can make the drug.

this means the only way drug companies can profit from a drug is to sell a lot of it in its 'copywrite' period, because once it goes generic all the bottom feeders reproduce a version of it and cut the price down to nothing.

Trouble with this is the drug companies who do the research dont re-coup the benifits and future research is not budgeted. It is basically the US market that makes research affordable in many cases.

Countries that have subsidized health care get cheaper rates from drug companies (they do so to remain competitive, keeping market share at the cost of profit) because they spend less on drugs. Drug companies are forced to lower their prices, to maintain their standing in the market.

Now drug companies have been creative and came up with big hit drugs that sell huge quantities, but the US market is the backbone of the entire industry and if it shrinks in net value, so too will the quality and efficacy of future drugs.
JtotheIzzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 02:47 PM   #79
asd
High school junior varsity star
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 623
asd has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

Quote:
Originally Posted by CakeorDeath
2. "Biggest" and "most expensive" are frequently not the best, regardless of the product or consumer opinion. And even in the case where the most expensive is the best, it is rarely absolutely necessary.

That's where you're wrong. While there is statistical deviation from this (an iota), the most expensive product or service usually is the best. Hence, consumers associate quality with price. There's a reason why an education from Harvard is more expensive than an education from the community college down the street.
asd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 02:58 PM   #80
CakeorDeath
Local High School Star
 
CakeorDeath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,556
CakeorDeath has decent reputation
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

Quote:
That's where you're wrong. While there is statistical deviation from this (an iota), the most expensive product or service usually is the best. Hence, consumers associate quality with price

Take the Spiral CT exam for instance. Currently, there is a national study on them that is aimed at determining whether or not they are more capable of detecting early signs of lung cancer than a standard chest X-Ray. However, despite the lack of evidence supporting the CT as "better," many patients are convinced that it is because it is newer and more expensive. So they wind up getting a procedure at greater cost but with potentially no greater benefit.

Quote:
There's a reason why an education from Harvard is more expensive than an education from the community college down the street.

I understand the metaphor but education is a problematic example because of the wide range of resources available to students and the plethora of professional specializations. Harvard, at 35k/year, can't touch a place like UC Berkeley, at 10k/year, in a something like Archaeology or the History of Art.
CakeorDeath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 03:07 PM   #81
reppy
Apparently likes anime
 
reppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,183
reppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

Don't some private drug companies also receive money for research from the government?
reppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 03:07 PM   #82
asd
High school junior varsity star
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 623
asd has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

Quote:
Originally Posted by asd
That's where you're wrong. While there is statistical deviation from this (an iota), the most expensive product or service usually is the best. Hence, consumers associate quality with price

Quote:
Originally Posted by CakeorDeath
Take the Spiral CT exam for instance. Currently, there is a national study on them that is aimed at determining whether or not they are more capable of detecting early signs of lung cancer than a standard chest X-Ray. However, despite the lack of evidence supporting the CT as "better," many patients are convinced that it is because it is newer and more expensive. So they wind up getting a procedure at greater cost but with potentially no greater benefit.

I understand the metaphor but education is a problematic example because of the wide range of resources available to students and the plethora of professional specializations. Harvard, at 35k/year, can't touch a place like UC Berkeley, at 10k/year, in a something like Archaeology or the History of Art.


Ok, two singular instances of deviation from the norm of the price-value relationship...Do you think that with those two, you've just disproved the fact that there's a relationship between price and value?
asd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 03:14 PM   #83
CakeorDeath
Local High School Star
 
CakeorDeath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,556
CakeorDeath has decent reputation
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

I'm just trying to illustrate that price does not always equal value (which you've recognized yourself as a deviation), and that in a field such as medicine, where research is constantly ongoing, new procedures are consistently being developed, and the consumer class is frequently uninformed, there is an enormous potential for exploitation by those who would seek to be greedy. Not saying that all, or even most, doctors do this, but some certainly do.
CakeorDeath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 03:28 PM   #84
reppy
Apparently likes anime
 
reppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,183
reppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation herereppy has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

My doctor is the man. He has a giant beard, long hair and his favorite band is The Grateful Dead.



Oh, he's also a pretty good photographer, too.
reppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 03:29 PM   #85
JtotheIzzo
Cavs eh? Ok then!
 
JtotheIzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Clevenada
Posts: 13,803
JtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJtotheIzzo is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

Quote:
Originally Posted by reppy
My doctor is the man. He has a giant beard, long hair and his favorite band is The Grateful Dead.



Oh, he's also a pretty good photographer, too.

he could score you some wicked doses
JtotheIzzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 03:46 PM   #86
boozehound
An uglier Lamar Doom
 
boozehound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24,091
boozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

Quote:
Originally Posted by steadyfast96
I never understood why some other countries are able to provide FREE healthcare. Can someone explain to me how that is possible and why America doesn't provide it being one of the richest countries in the world.

Sorry, maybe I'm a little late on other country's policies..
As Sharas points out, its because there is an industry making a profit off of it. The US government will rarely stand up to corporations (constitutional citizens as of 1880s) who have a vested economic interest. Same reason why all the auto manufacturers get in a tizzy over fuel efficiency standards being raised. Hard to take on a corporate interest that could spend its money to help you win or lose your next election you scumbag career politician.

Also, "socialized" medicine has incredibly negative connotations in this country due to the cold war, etc. "You commie pinkos, free market (yeah right) health care".

To be fair, both my mum's parents died of pneumonia in England in the 80s. They probably wouldnt have died if they had good health insurance in the US (harder and harder to come by).

Hell, even with my health insurance, I can't afford to see a doctor unless its life threatening.
boozehound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 03:51 PM   #87
boozehound
An uglier Lamar Doom
 
boozehound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24,091
boozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

Quote:
Originally Posted by reppy
My doctor is the man. He has a giant beard, long hair and his favorite band is The Grateful Dead.



Oh, he's also a pretty good photographer, too.
is that Andrew Weil?

If we lived healthier lifestyles (diet, exercise, phytonutrients) we wouldnt waste so much medical attention on preventable problems.


Also, we spend more in the US on healthcare for our pets than homeless people.


Pharmaceutical research spends more each year on hair loss and erectile disfunction than on AIDS or any one type of Cancer.


Not to mention all the bs elective surgery (boob jobs, stomach staples, lasik, electrolysis).
boozehound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 11:20 PM   #88
Done_And_Done
D & D
 
Done_And_Done's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Embedded In Your Cranium...
Posts: 6,737
Done_And_Done is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDone_And_Done is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDone_And_Done is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDone_And_Done is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDone_And_Done is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDone_And_Done is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDone_And_Done is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDone_And_Done is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDone_And_Done is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDone_And_Done is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDone_And_Done is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: OT: michael moore's new movie: SICKO

For those concerned or interested
Heres a link to the movie. . .

http://movieforumz.com/showthread.php?t=24935
Done_And_Done is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:01 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy