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Old 07-10-2006, 01:50 PM   #31
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Dirk needs to stay put at the 4. Its annoying as hell that the mavs continually bring in players who arent half as good as he is and ask him to adapt. Seriously is there another superstar who is continually asked to change his game because the average players on his team want to play his position? None that i can think of. Can you imagine the heat telling wade to play sf and pf because they are gonna trade for jerry stackhouse? no that would be effing retarted just as this trade would be. Martin hasnt been healthy in 2 years and he cant guard centers. Asking dirk to be the guy to move around from the 3 4 and 5 positions defensively because you traded for a 4 is just stupid. You have Dirk. You are going to continue to have dirk. To make a long story short, you dont need a pf. You got the backup in the quis trade. Now you dont need one. That is one position that you absolutely do not need another player at.(obviously if JO or KG becomes available that position changes)
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:31 PM   #32
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Apparently, not many of you know Kenyon's game too well. Too bad goldnugg isn't here to back me up on this, but I'm sure some other Nets fans will.

1. He does have a bad jumper, and poor post up moves. That much is evident and anyone who's watched Kenyon knows. So the most of you get points for that.

2. Whoever said Kenyon can only play the 4 is just outright wrong. Probably watched 1 Kenyon game. Coming out of Cincy, he was projected to be too undersized to be an effective 4. It says he's 6-9, but he's probably just a shade over 6-8. I've seen him in person and know he doesn't look anywhere near 6-10. Also his build is more of a small forward type, as well as his athleticism. His heart is set at the four, but he's not brutally strong (though strong enough), and he has the quickness to gaurd any 2/3 in the league. Many times as a Net, he was asked to gaurd Kobe, Tracy, etc for considerable strecthes. And he did well, getting into their skin (especially T-Mac's).

3. Kenyon at the 5 would only work on teams who don't have real post threats, like pretty much any team except Miami, Houston, maybe Cleveland, Eddy Curry and New York does not count. Tim Duncan can easily overpower him, but no one stops Tim. Ever. He can over jump shooting centers with ease, and I think he should be able to cover Dwight, Amare, Bosh, which ever powerforward masquerading as a 5, because they face up more than posting and Kenyon's quickness and length should be valuable.

4. If Kenyon can accept being the garbage guy on the team, probably averaging 14/6 starting, 10/4 off the bench, while playing great defense, this would be a nice trade for Dallas. It gives them an extra guy that could keep them up San Antonio. Kenyon is as fast as a gaurd so they can go with a small line up with him at the 5 and just give the same fits that the Terry, Harris, Howard, Stack/Van Horn, Dirk did last playoffs. Except this time you got a guy who can gaurd Tim without putting Dirk in foul trouble. As well as out run Tim for the dunk as well as shot block if San Antonio goes small to match. It wouldn't be all bad. Scoring for that line up goes down with Kenyon, but they wouldn't conceed as many points either. However, with Terry, Harris, Howard and Dirk being crafty scorers, it's not like they need that 5th scorer. Ofcourse, this is all contingent if Kenyon accepts this...but if they're playing for the championship, I won't see why not. Winning seems to erase egos.

As for Stack to Denver, I'm not sure if he and Carmelo would work out. Stack seems to have an ego and I'm not sure whether he's comfortable with giving such big responsiblity to a young guy. Jordan's apprentice, nonetheless. Carmelo has his ego too. He'd fit, I just don't know if he can play off another wing player since him and Jordan didn't seem to both perform well. Many will point that Stack played well in a team concept and accepted an off the bench role with Dallas, but there's a HUGE difference. Dallas was playing to win a championship, Denver is playing to get out of the first round. So that difference will trigger clashes like we saw with Kenyon and karl. Between Carmelo, Stack, and Karl, I can only see problems arising..

Last edited by wang4three : 07-10-2006 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:33 PM   #33
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The problem is you are listing kenyons attributes before the knee injuries when yes he could guard 3s some. Now he cant. He is a 4 and a 4 only.
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:34 PM   #34
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Possibly, but also Stack fills their gaping hole at SG, and he's a well known scorer. If he panned out, they'd surely bring him back.
Stack can't shoot and wants the ball in his hands all the time. Nuggets need/want someone who can shoot.
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:42 PM   #35
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The problem is you are listing kenyons attributes before the knee injuries when yes he could guard 3s some. Now he cant. He is a 4 and a 4 only.

All report says he's back to full speed.
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:45 PM   #36
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That would be reports out of denver who are desperately trying to sucker someone into taking him.
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:49 PM   #37
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It says he's 6-9, but he's probably just a shade over 6-8. I've seen him in person and know he doesn't look anywhere near 6-10.

Did you confuse yourself with that one.

Yes, he is a four, but definitely on the lower rung of 4's. If he's not "ooping" he's not trying. Mavs don't waste your time.
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:56 PM   #38
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The thing is while yes he might actually be able to play some 3(i am admitting something i doubt but i digress) if you are aquiring him to play the 3, why the hell not just try to acquire a 3. I know it sounds like madness but it just might work. Even then, the mavs dont really need a 3, they need a 2. Your not gonna get a 2 by trading with the nuggets who dont have any 2s on their roster either. If you are getting him to play center, the mavs have enough centers. they dont need to go back to pfs acting like centers. The fact of the matter is that dirk is the mavs pf and croshere is fine to eat up the other 10 or so minutes a game.
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:03 PM   #39
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Did you confuse yourself with that one.

No, read it again.

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That would be reports out of denver who are desperately trying to sucker someone into taking him.

No, those reports are from his agent and his camp, but I doubt they're tremendously off from the real thing. Kenyon was still fast last season enough to gaurd any three. He might not be able to cover the Kobes, Carters of the league anymore, but I wouldn't put it past him to cover any three in the league right now.
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:08 PM   #40
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the mavs have a 3. Why would you trade for a guy with a max contract(the worst contract in the nba) who can only play the positions that your 2 best players play(the second position is being generous. It would be one thing if the mavs were all of a sudden gonna get dirk after they got martin or they already had martin. Sure then you would try to find a way to get him on the court. But trading for him and putting yourself in a position where you then have to try find a way to play him is just dumb. The mavericks arent dumb.
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:13 PM   #41
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The Mavs are strong at gaurd, why keep Jerry? To keep the team stacked, of course. It'd be stupid not to stock up on quality frontcourt players if you can. Especially with ones with great defensive ability and known to have Finals' experience. Jerry was suspended a game that they might and probably could've won if he was there. Whether you agree with the suspension or not. Kenyon has played well in the Finals the two years there, aside from the flu game.
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:22 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by wang4three
The Mavs are strong at gaurd, why keep Jerry? To keep the team stacked, of course. It'd be stupid not to stock up on quality frontcourt players if you can. Especially with ones with great defensive ability and known to have Finals' experience. Jerry was suspended a game that they might and probably could've won if he was there. Whether you agree with the suspension or not. Kenyon has played well in the Finals the two years there, aside from the flu game.


I wouldn't label KMart as having great defensive ability, and as far as that defense down low was not their problem. It was trying to stop DWade. Kmart played well in the Finals in NJ where he was on a team that pushed the ball and found him on the break, on a team like that he was really good, but in Denver where they do not play that way he has done nothing and it would be the same in Big D.
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:30 PM   #43
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It doesnt matter, because its hard to play d from the bench which is where he would be.
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:34 PM   #44
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I wouldn't label KMart as having great defensive ability, and as far as that defense down low was not their problem. It was trying to stop DWade. Kmart played well in the Finals in NJ where he was on a team that pushed the ball and found him on the break, on a team like that he was really good, but in Denver where they do not play that way he has done nothing and it would be the same in Big D.

Dallas can play whatever way they want, I thought that much was evident in the playoffs. They went from playing slow and grind out with San Antonio, to beating Pheonix at their own fast pace running game. Kenyon can thrive if he's not asked to be an option on offense. The thing about Denver, and why it went wrong, is that most of those players are playing for themselves instead of a team system.
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:38 PM   #45
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Default Damp would have to be involved

I just don't know about all of this talk.

but, if these two things are true...

A) Dallas doesn't mind continuing to be in luxury tax hell down the road
B) Denver would rather have Dampier and his contract and Dallas doesn't want him anymore

then it could be possible.

Dallas trades

Damp
Stack

to DEN for

KMart
Patterson

I might even go so far as to say Denver would have to throw in a first rounder or something.

While Damp does suck... under the luxury tax this deal sorta ends up allowing Denver an extra MLE down the road. You also have to consider that Denver will be seeing a pure malcontent, dead-weight style KMart as long as they keep him. Damp's deal is bad, but as was mentioned, KMart's is the worst in the league and at least they can get 25 productive minutes from Damp while KMart will likely only cause problems to the point where he will earn no playing time (or sit out on his own).

That's my take.
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