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Old 07-12-2006, 02:26 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX
Toronto more impressive in Summer league?

Celtics - 111 Toronto - 62

Bargnani 2-7
His comment was in reference to Bargnani in the Euroleague and summer league versus Jefferson and Green, not the success of their respective squads. Also, summer league wins mean pretty much nothing for a team. It's not what the summer league is about.

Bargnani's plenty proven in real competition in Europe.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:28 PM   #32
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Why havent Paul Pierce, KG or Iverson been dealt yet? They are all past their primes, and if they were going to win anything, they would have by now.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:29 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by adamcz
You Celtics fans need to take off the homer goggles, and face the facts. I'm not just talking smack either - the C's are my 2nd favorite team in the league, since I first started following the NBA when I was living there. Compare.

-----

Toronto: Bosh is already an allstar, Bargnani by all accounts (summer league and euroleague) is already more proven than Green or Jefferson, and Ford has already led two completely different Bucks squads to the playoffs.

Charlotte: Morrison hasn't proven anything yet, but Felton and Okafor have. Check the stats, and check their pedigree. Is Gerald Wallace young enough to be considered part of their young core? If so, he's better than any Celtic other than Pierce, and is young enough to stay that way for 7-8 years.
Orlando: Dwight Howard is the kind of player that many teams would trade their entire roster for. He will lead the NBA in rebounds and blocks at least 5 times each. Add to that a point guard (Nelson) who has proven a whole lot more than Telfair has, and Darko, who has shown a lot more skill than Jefferson has.

Milwaukee: Bogut had to play out of position last year, but he sure as hell looked better than Jefferson. Villanueva only scored 13 points last year? I'll take that over Gerald Green's 5.2 any day. Mo Williams is also hands down better than Telfair. Better shooter, passer, rebounder, and team leader.

Cleveland/Miami: Lebron/Wade by themselves are probably more of a threat than any other core I listed above.


-------

How can the plan in Boston possibly be to bank on Telfair/Jefferson/Green out-developing those guys?

sorry, i think someone already pointed out that charlotte is not an eastern team.

now they're a team who should be taking a playoff spot from the lakers...
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:31 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by jan803
sorry, i think someone already pointed out that charlotte is not an eastern team.
http://www.nba.com/bobcats/index_main.html
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:31 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by TMacsOneGoodEye

You can't blame the renters like GetBuckets, you gotta blame the homers like Dickerson, Tanguay, and Heinsohn.


Dickerson and Tanguay are probably the biggest morons ever...


They have 0 knowledge of what the f*ck they are talking about. I'm going to take quotes from them out of my head from memory

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Originally Posted by Idiot Dickerson
Immediately after Antoine get's traded to Dallas Mavericks: "I GUARENTEE THAT PAUL PIERCE WILL DEMAND A TRADE WITHIN A YEAR!"

"Paul Pierce is possibly the best rebounder in the NBA when he wants to be"

"The best player ever to step on to an NBA court is, no doubt, Bot Petit."

"I could go out there and do as good as Ricky Davis, the worst cancer in the NBA, His game winning shots? I could have made those too"

"I predict that Mark Blount will average 23 points and 10 rebounds next year"

"The Allstar game 2006 will end up in a National League Win 10-8"

"We should have traded our dud in Joe Johnson at the beginning of the season when he had more value"

"We should have taken Taylor Coppenrath in the first round, he will be a NBA stud"

"Ricky Davis is the biggest idiot I have ever seen, this is the worst trade ever"(In response to trading Kedrick Brown, Tony Battie and Eric Williams for Chris Mihm and Ricky Davis)

That's just some quotes from Dickerson I Remeber!Don't put them in the same sentence as Tommy, as he actually understands the Game of Basketball.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:35 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by $ci
Why havent Paul Pierce, KG or Iverson been dealt yet? They are all past their primes, and if they were going to win anything, they would have by now.

1.Pierce doesn't want to LEave
2.AI is currently leaving...
3.KG is waiting on Mchale.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:40 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX
1.Pierce doesn't want to LEave
2.AI is currently leaving...
3.KG is waiting on Mchale.

But why doenst P square want to leave? The team appears to be going nowhere. Maybe in 5 years, but he'll be usless by then.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:42 PM   #38
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Because, unlike some people, he doesn't want to chase a ring, he has something called "Loyalty" a rare NBA quality. He wants the CELTICS to win a ring, not himself.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:44 PM   #39
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Charlotte: Morrison hasn't proven anything yet, but Felton and Okafor have.
Felton has shown about as much as Delonte West has.
Quote:
Orlando: Dwight Howard is the kind of player that many teams would trade their entire roster for.
Oh, Howard I'll give you, but...
Quote:
He will lead the NBA in rebounds and blocks at least 5 times each. Add to that a point guard (Nelson) who has proven a whole lot more than Telfair has,
Not really.
Quote:
and Darko, who has shown a lot more skill than Jefferson has.

Al Jefferson = most undervalued player in the league. If you're using his red shirt season last year as a barameter, you're in for quite a shock.
Quote:
Villanueva only scored 13 points last year? I'll take that over Gerald Green's 5.2 any day.

Strawman agrument. Green didn't get regular minutes until the last month of the season, and even then played fewer than Charlie. Green's potential blows Charlie clear out of the water. Keith Van Horn was "better" tham TMac in 1997 too.
Quote:
Mo Williams is also hands down better than Telfair. Better shooter, passer, rebounder, and team leader.
Who's peaked and who's getting better?

Last edited by JohnnySic : 07-12-2006 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:46 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by adamcz

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz

sorry adamcz!

it's weird of me...i always get the bobcats and hornets mixed up. it doesn't help that these teams get moved from city to city tho.

real lame of me!
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:52 PM   #41
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Because, unlike some people, he doesn't want to chase a ring, he has something called "Loyalty" a rare NBA quality. He wants the CELTICS to win a ring, not himself.

??????

He's been quoted more than once on how he has considered and wouldnt necessarily be opposed to being moved to another team....
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Old 07-12-2006, 03:01 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by JohnnySic
Felton has shown about as much as Delonte West has.
Felton has an NCAA trophy, and put up 12/3/6 as a rookie. West put up similar, though slightly inferior stats as a sophomore, but it took him more minutes.

Quote:
(regarding Nelson having proven more than Telfair) Not really.
Nelson was college player of the year, and showed he can do the same in the NBA with his sophomore stats of 15/3/5. Telfair put up 10/2/4 on the worst team in the league, and carries a gun in his purse.

Quote:
Al Jefferson = most undervalued player in the league. If you're using his red shirt season last year as a barameter, you're in for quite a shock.
Not as big a shock as the Celtics fans who have watched him in the Summer leagues. Al can't even hold his own against scrubs who won't make the NBA.

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Green's potential blows Charlie clear out of the water.
How? Because he's a better dunker? Or more likely, because he plays for the Celtics? If Charlie V played for the Celtics, who would you tell me has more potential?

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(Between Mo Williams and Telfair) Who's peaked and who's getting better?
How would anybody know the answer to that? All I know is that they are both very young point guards, but Mo has proven he can score, dish, and run a team in the NBA, while Telfair hasn't. Maybe both have peaked, maybe neither has. I'll put my money on the guy who has already shown something.
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Old 07-12-2006, 03:07 PM   #43
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Telfair put up 10/2/4 on the worst team in the league, and carries a gun in his purse.
Like Jefferson, Telfair battled injuries last year. I'm not saying fro sure he'll be better than Nelson but I like his potential.

Quote:
If Charlie V played for the Celtics, who would you tell me has more potential?
Still Green. Charlie I see as a Ryan Gomes type (who's a Celtic by the way.) Gomes may bet "better" right now but I think Green has a much higher ceiling than Gomes (and Charlie.)

Last edited by JohnnySic : 07-12-2006 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 07-12-2006, 03:09 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
You Celtics fans need to take off the homer goggles, and face the facts. I'm not just talking smack either - the C's are my 2nd favorite team in the league, since I first started following the NBA when I was living there. Compare.

-----

Toronto: Bosh is already an allstar, Bargnani by all accounts (summer league and euroleague) is already more proven than Green or Jefferson, and Ford has already led two completely different Bucks squads to the playoffs.
Michael Redd lead the Bucks to the playoffs. Saying it was Ford is like saying Jason Williams led the Heat to the Championship. Gerald is getting more points and rebounds per game than Bargnani in summer league.

Quote:
Charlotte: Morrison hasn't proven anything yet, but Felton and Okafor have. Check the stats, and check their pedigree. Is Gerald Wallace young enough to be considered part of their young core? If so, he's better than any Celtic other than Pierce, and is young enough to stay that way for 7-8 years.
Okafor played in 26 games last season. Gerald Wallace is going into his sixthth year. Is it at all fair to expect guys with 1-3 years of experience to equal a guy with 5? Felton is statistically on the same level as Delonte and similar, per minute, to Sebastian.

Quote:
Orlando: Dwight Howard is the kind of player that many teams would trade their entire roster for. He will lead the NBA in rebounds and blocks at least 5 times each. Add to that a point guard (Nelson) who has proven a whole lot more than Telfair has, and Darko, who has shown a lot more skill than Jefferson has.
Now Darko's proven? Ignoring what he did as a Piston (nothing) he got 8 points, 4 board, and 2 blocks in Orlando. Only thing he has over Al is shotblocking, Al is a better rebounder and scorer, exceeding him slightly in both areas while only getting 3/4 of the minutes per game. Jameer Nelson is ahead of our pgs, but we have two that have shown part of what they can do in the NBA (Delonte and Bassy) and Delonte's numbers aren't far off from Nelson's.

Quote:
Milwaukee: Bogut had to play out of position last year, but he sure as hell looked better than Jefferson. Villanueva only scored 13 points last year? I'll take that over Gerald Green's 5.2 any day. Mo Williams is also hands down better than Telfair. Better shooter, passer, rebounder, and team leader.
Bogut needed 10 more minutes to average 1 more point and 2 more boards. And I don't know how a rookie out of HS that plays the same position as the team's two best players is supposed to perform on par with a guy that went to college for 2 years and got to be a part-time starter. How's he going to average over 5 points in 11 minutes? He's still learning the basics of the game.

Quote:
Cleveland/Miami: Lebron/Wade by themselves are probably more of a threat than any other core I listed above.
Great players, but if they don't get good supporting casts they could find themselves in similar positions like AI and P find themselves right now. That's at least part of why they both are getting those 3 year and 1 option contracts.
-------

Quote:
How can the plan in Boston possibly be to bank on Telfair/Jefferson/Green out-developing those guys?
The plan also includes Paul Pierce, Delonte West (I don't know why you forgot him), Wally, and possible trades. Do we have a sure thing? Of course not. Neither do any of these other young cores (and no, Dwyane Wade all by himself is not a "core.").
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Old 07-12-2006, 03:15 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by $ci
Why havent Paul Pierce, KG or Iverson been dealt yet? They are all past their primes, and if they were going to win anything, they would have by now.
Paul Pierce just had the best season of his career, is 29, and is past his prime? KG is 30. Past his prime? And AI just averaged 33. These guys are over the hill?

Two things:
1. Rethink your definition of "past prime."
2. Great teams win Championships, not necessarily the great players
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