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Old 07-24-2007, 04:04 PM   #16
geeWiz15
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

I wish the head of the resistance were someone other than Cindy Sheehan. It's so hard to take her seriously. It's not even her fault exactly. But if I were on the other side she'd be so easy to mock.

It's like MLK vs. Al Sharpton. It's like the guys heading the noble causes these days seem as full of **** as the guys they're railing against. Well maybe not as full of **** but in the same ballpark.

I do think someone should impeach Bush though. Remember that impreachment isn't being found guilty. It's just a trial. I think Bush should be on trial... he's really questionable. Obviously he's corrupt, but people are dying as a result and that merits IMPEACHMENT. Sikness' precious comment that impeachment would take away our country's credibility? Listen. We don't HAVE credibility. And the reason we don't have crediblity is not completely the fault of the Bush administration but they are a big part of it and if we want to get back some credibilty we have to hold them, and any other government official(s) accountable for their actions. Take it to trial and see what comes up.

In fact let's go back to Sikness' comment. It's not just dumb it's offensive. And it merits a second take.

First you say she should be shot. Now, I don't know what country that shoots protestors for protesting that has international credibility YOU'RE thinking of, but from what I know, that tends to take AWAY from the legitimacy of a government.

Then you say Cindy Sheehan couldn't do a better job as President. How do you know this? And assuming it's true, so what? It's not her job... it's Bush's and he's failing. You don't have to be a politician yourself to dissent. Especially not when the politicians who should be dissenting aren't doing so.

Then you proceed to tell us that holding impeachment hearings on the President would put the country in "anarchy." Really? Anarchy? I wasn't aware state and local governments were automatically dissolved in the event of an impeachment. How about the last two series of impeachment hearings? Did the nation fall apart then? When Nixon resigned- did the country fall headfirst into a lawless hell of military rule?

This isn't Nigeria. We've been at this democratic republic thing for 200 years. We've been through one revolution, two impeachments, several midterm presidential deaths... we've had presidents assassinated, we've been in several monumental international conflicts, we've had several scandals of variable consequence and we've ALWAYS come through and you're telling me what's going to bring this country down is holding the government accountable for its questionable actions of the last 7 years. That's what you're telling me here.

And then you say we would become a "third world country" if we put our government on trial............. right. Here's what I suggest. I suggest you go check out a US History book out of the library and read up. I suggest you take a few Pol Sci classes in college. I suggest you remove your HEAD from your ASS and think about how much sense something makes before you hit Post Quick Reply.

Last edited by geeWiz15 : 07-24-2007 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

I recommend that you guys read the book 'genius of impeachment'..

here some info from Bill Moyer's show with the author nichols on there. it really well reasoned information and a reminder of how far we have slipped in our diligence to the adherence of the constitution... I mean, either we are a society of laws or not...

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

^please check it out
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:08 PM   #18
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

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impeachment should only be considered when a President has committed a crime.
Or when the president lies about getting a BJ...

We can impeach the President when ever we damn well please. It's called accountability. At any time we can put anyone on trial. If there's nothing there it'll get dismissed right quick but if the government gets the impression that impeachment will never come accountability is gone and they'll take advantage. CONVICTION should come only when a crime has been committed.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

under what grounds could Bush be impeached for? someone needs to mount an effective case and convince the Attorney General that it could be done so the prelimiary proceedings could even BEGIN to be starteed.

example:

I have a video recording of Bush laughing and cackling evilly with Cheney about their crimes against humanity.

even with this evidence, it would take a year at least to get an impeachment process going

Bush's skeletons are all in the closet and his death squad will make sure no one can rattle it.

again Geewiz you fail in that you try to act smart, only to be revealed to be contrite and unoriginal.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

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under what grounds could Bush be impeached for? someone needs to mount an effective case and convince the Attorney General that it could be done so the prelimiary proceedings could even BEGIN to be starteed.

please VC, dont go down this road....Bush has broken more laws than can be listed here.... whether or not he broke laws and committed "high crimes and misdemeanors" is not even a question at this point


go to that link and watch these constitutional scholars remind people of how simple and genius the constitution is ...... Impeachment was put in place exactly for some of the things bush has done
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:18 PM   #21
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

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Originally Posted by Rasheed1
please VC, dont go down this road....Bush has broken more laws than can be listed here.... whether or not he broke laws and committed "high crimes and misdemeanors" is not even a question at this point


go to that link and watch these constitutional scholars remind people of how simple and genius the constitution is ...... Impeachment was put in place exactly for some of the things bush has done


im discussing a technical aspect. you will see I have made another thread asking for bush's impeachment and replacement with a lightbulb. (serious, not menat as satire)

but unless someone gets the dirt on him, which is protected in his closet with numerous goons protecting it, it is impractical to launch this course of action.

and I don't buy the liberal mantra of "action is better than inaction."

take care of yourself and your family first before trying to "save the world."
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:20 PM   #22
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

VC are you trying to tell me that the Bush administration has never once broken the law?

In fact, anyone against impeachment is trying to tell me that not only has Bush never broken a United States law, but there is no QUESTION about it to the point where a trial is not even necessary.

That's a pretty dubious claim, don't you think? The reason we haven't impeached the President boils down to, it would be too much of a hassle, and he'll be out in a year anyway. That's why. Has nothing to do with the fact that they've got a case or not.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

I think Bush's legacy is completely and utterly ****ed.

He will be looked back on as quite possibly the worst president of all time.

When the Republican candidates are basing their whole platform on not being Bush, you know it's a problem.

Still, us Americans are gluttons for punishment and buy into everything this administration tells us.

They can tell us "Hey, bend over. I want to tickle your ****ter." and we'd go "No means no!!!" And they would say "You're going to get attacked by a muslim if you don't" and we'll bend over and smile.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:29 PM   #24
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

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he'll be out in a year anyway. That's why. Has nothing to do with the fact that they've got a case or not.

if Bush leaves without being impeached, the next president will retain all of power bush has stolen from the other branches of the government... I am certain no president will relinquish that power if the people dont stand up and rebuke this president and condemn what he has done....the next president and all who follow must not be allowed to do what Bush has done
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

I don't know how much of the transfer of power to the Executive Bush has done by official means is illegal. The Patriot act will have to be defeated by the Supreme Court whether or not Bush is impeached, I think (not sure on this, anyone with more knowledge on the subject than I want to weigh in?)
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:00 PM   #26
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

If Bush was involved with the outting of Valerie Plame, then you have a case to impeach him.

Consider the following: Valerie Plame was an active CIA agent. What did she do? She was part of a group that made sure nuclear weapons weren't ending up in the hands of people like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. You know, our enemies?

What is the definition of treason? "Providing aid and comfort to the enemy"? What is it when you blow the cover of someone who is working hard to protect America (and the world) from further nuclear proliferation at the hands of our enemies? Could you accuse them of "aiding" the enemy? I would think so; right-wingers often accuse liberals of "treason" on far less dubious grounds.

So, not only did the Bush Administration blow the cover of Valerie Plame, they put everyone involved in the operation in serious risk. Furthermore, how likely is it now that people will volunteer to work under such life-threatening circumstances knowing full well that your operation could be exposed in a moment for petty political differences? How many people do you think will sign up?

In addition, it's also likely that Bush committed a conspiracy by commuting Scooter Libby's sentence. It was likely that Dick Cheney and Karl Rove would have to testify under oath (that scares the hell out of these Republicans) if Scooter did not go quietly. And at the time, he wasn't. He didn't want to be the fall man. So what do you do? You guarantee his freedom by telling him that if he goes quietly and does not involve others, you will commute his sentence. That is pretty much the definition of the word "conspiracy".
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Old 07-24-2007, 06:43 PM   #27
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

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Originally Posted by Rasheed1
To be honest. Sheehan is absolutely right... Impeachment is not a fringe movement. It is the medicine by which we cure ourselves of situations like the one we are in right now....

I been listening and watching some constitutional historians and lawyers talk about this situation and they state over and over that this president should be impeached... there is an abundance of evidence that should be used to do this..

the democrats are shirking their duty to enact the changes that the American people have sent them to Washington to achieve...This war could be stopped but the democrats (and republicans) dont have the guts to stand up and do it.....

We are losing our sense of (real) freedom.. this is becoming a nation of bureaucracy and politics.... We are acting like cowards these days...

I wish there was a way to make people understand how critical this time in history is to this country.


The same people loved him following 9/11. The people don't impeach a president the House does. And if you can show me any findings of President Bush committing high crimes then lets go.... Reality check...the liberals have wanted to impeach the president for some time now and would if they could...they simply do not have a leg to stand on. The people have no say in this matter.

There is not a case for high crimes against this president. If there was surely Peloski and Reid would be all over that.

Mistakes and failures are not high crimes.....during the Clinton impeachment we learned of what high crimes is and the standard is pretty high. If you want to say war....the congress gave him powers, you want to say he lied, every leader in this nation said the same thing, were they all liars or mistaken. High crimes is a rough road there simply is not a case against this president that goes to this level.

I don't know what high crimes or misdemeanors Bush has committed. I voted for Bush the second time, but it was more of a vote against Kerry. That being said, I'm not much of a Bush fan now because of immigration, McCain/Feingold,Prescription Drugs, and total lack of effort on Social Security and Tax Overhaul (Fair Tax). I certainly don't think that there are ANY grounds to impeach Bush because of the War. If there are grounds because of the statements made by his Administration leading up to the war, then you'd certainly have to impeach Hillary, Kerry, Reed, etc, etc.

I don't think you can impeach a president for unpopularity. You have to do it on the basis that crimes have been committed, and there simply have been none. Even the BIGGEST scandal of the Bush presidency was a farce: A prosecutor knowing no crime had been committed, knowing who leaked the name, and still pursuing a baseless investigation with only the intent, IMHO, of looking for inconsistencies in testimony. Pursuing a bogus investigation with the intent to indict for perjury is more of a scandal for Fitzgerald in my opinion.

Simply no basis for impeachment. And hell, he's out of there in 18 months anyway. What would really be the point? Revenge for Willy?

There is no legal, or political, reason for impeachment. Otherwise, the Democratically controlled Congress would have proceeded with it.

What high crimes and or misdemeanors is President Bush guilty of under the law? Anyone that is in favor of impeachment, should cite the actual law(s) that he has broken, that warrant an impeachment.

Most of the things that the Libnuts complain about - like fighting terrorists and cutting taxes - are actually the GOOD things that he's done.

There is a reason that impeachment has been so rarely used in US history and it is too important a part of the constitution for morons to be screwing around with on partisan hack motives. Like it or not, Clinton lied under oath and was convicted for it as well as disbarred. That IS a violation of the law. Bush has only been "perceived" as doing anything illegal.

CLinton's impeachment may have been politically motivated BUT it was based on fact while the move to impeachment Bush is politically motivated but based on perception. Not the same thing. And IMO a complete waste of time and energy.

But then again, the surrender-rats have been spinning their wheels since W's first election anyway, why change now?

We don't hold a popular vote on impeachment. If the president did something illegal, he can be impeached. If not, not. That's it.

You don't impeach a President because you don't like what he has done, if he hasn't broken any laws. We aren't governed by mob rule.

When liberals whine and cry about how they want the President impeached, what I truly don't understand is this: for what? Impeachment is removal from office for a crime committed. If you just don't like his politics, you use the recall process. So are liberals just insane and contriving some crime to convict him of because they don't like his politics, or is there some actual crime they believe he has committed?

Being impeached and being removed from office are not the same thing.

Being impeached means you are accused, like being indicted. You have to be convicted to be removed from office. Clinton was impeached, but not convicted, which is why he wasn't kicked out of office. Clinton was impeached specifically for perjury and obstruction of justice. There were four specific crimes he was accused of. I have yet to hear any specific accusation against Bush. When the Senate voted on whether or not to remove Clinton from office, they only considered politics, not guilt or innocence. They admitted as much at the time, too.

It would help if people understood the Constitution and the meanings of the terms before bloviating about impeachment. But then, maybe that's why people are bloviating about impeachment: because they don't know the Constitution any better than Jesse Jackson, Jr. who thinks the President committed a crime by issuing a pardon.
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Old 07-24-2007, 06:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

Heilige nice job, i may not agree with everything you said but that post was brilliant nice work...
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:05 PM   #29
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

I guess outing a CIA agent that is working to protect Americans from nuclear attack just isn't that big of a deal anymore.
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:30 PM   #30
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

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Originally Posted by reppy
I guess outing a CIA agent that is working to protect Americans from nuclear attack just isn't that big of a deal anymore.

He had Libby take the fall for that and in turn commutated his sentence and may pardon him. That's the great thing about Bush cronism is that he always has a fall guy and nothing can ever be pinned directly on the president. For cases of torture and whatnot he just has the military minds take the fall, shrug, and say I don't know how that happened. I don't think there are any word for word crimes you can charge him with, but I think he has hurt the Constitution enough that it can be basically looked at as a crime in itself. That's just a fantasy thought that probably would never get by if impeachment actually gained some ground.

I don't think impeachment would be the right course and I'm pretty liberal. I think those on Capitol Hill have to get some gall and make the moves they have been planning to make. Right now they are just afraid that if they stop funding for the war or actually manage to get troops pulled out and it doesn't work they are going to be ridiculed. Well they are being ridiculed right now so I have no idea what their thought process is.

Bottom line: nothing is going to be done about the war until someone new is in office, and even that isn't a guarantee if the Republicans win.
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