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Old 07-24-2007, 07:45 PM   #31
reppy
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

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Originally Posted by Heilige
I don't think you can impeach a president for unpopularity. You have to do it on the basis that crimes have been committed, and there simply have been none. Even the BIGGEST scandal of the Bush presidency was a farce: A prosecutor knowing no crime had been committed, knowing who leaked the name, and still pursuing a baseless investigation with only the intent, IMHO, of looking for inconsistencies in testimony. Pursuing a bogus investigation with the intent to indict for perjury is more of a scandal for Fitzgerald in my opinion.

So you're telling me that a prosecutor that was appointed by Bush suddenly decided to go on a fruitless witch hunt? Scooter leaked the name to New York Times reporter Judith Miller. It does not matter if Armitage leaked first, or leaked second, to whomever whenever. The fact is that Scooter leaked the name and tried to hide the fact that it had occured. This is why he was sentenced.

The fact that he was commuted for trying to cover up a crime should be reason enough to impeach Bush. If you don't think that impeaching a man that offers protection for anyone that will do any sort of nasty political act for you is a good idea, then well, maybe you should live under a dictatorship in Pakistan or something.

If you don't think that someone told Scooter "shut up and we'll get you out", you're lying to yourself. It could have been far, far messier if Scooter had made a fuss of things.

I don't think people understand the gravity of the situation here. They think it's "just politics", so who cares?

Quote:
Simply no basis for impeachment. And hell, he's out of there in 18 months anyway. What would really be the point? Revenge for Willy?

It's called accountability. You really like the idea of Hillary Clinton having the same powers (and using them) as ol' GW? I sincerely doubt you feel that way.

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Most of the things that the Libnuts complain about - like fighting terrorists and cutting taxes - are actually the GOOD things that he's done.

"Fighting terrorists"? You're a comedian. He invaded Iraq. There were no terrorsts in Iraq. Also, I'm glad you're keeping things above the fray; "libnuts", funny.

Quote:
There is a reason that impeachment has been so rarely used in US history and it is too important a part of the constitution for morons to be screwing around with on partisan hack motives. Like it or not, Clinton lied under oath and was convicted for it as well as disbarred. That IS a violation of the law. Bush has only been "perceived" as doing anything illegal.

Of course, we'll never know if Bush did anything illegal because he claims executive privilege over everything and refuses to allow investigators to look at anything that would reveal a crime. "National security! Executive privilege! Terrorists! 9/11!""

Quote:
But then again, the surrender-rats have been spinning their wheels since W's first election anyway, why change now?

The "surrender-rats"? Who exactly did they want to surrender to? You really lose credibility when you start saying "libnuts" and "surrender-rats".

Quote:
We don't hold a popular vote on impeachment. If the president did something illegal, he can be impeached. If not, not. That's it.

You don't impeach a President because you don't like what he has done, if he hasn't broken any laws. We aren't governed by mob rule.

Bruce Fein seems to think he should be impeached. But what does he know?

Quote:
It would help if people understood the Constitution and the meanings of the terms before bloviating about impeachment. But then, maybe that's why people are bloviating about impeachment: because they don't know the Constitution any better than Jesse Jackson, Jr. who thinks the President committed a crime by issuing a pardon.

True; I'm sure you know a lot more about the Constitution than Bruce Fein.

A few choice quotes from a discussion with Bill Moyers, Bruce Fein and John Nichols:

[on Bush's commutation of Libby] John Nichols: And, you know, the founders anticipated just such a moment. If you look at the discussions in the Federalist Papers but also at the Constitutional Convention, when they spoke about impeachment, one of the things that Madison and George Mason spoke about was the notion that you needed the power to impeach particularly as regards to pardons and commutations because a president might try to take the burden of the law off members of his administration to prevent them from cooperating with Congress in order to expose wrongdoings by the president himself. And so Madison said that is why we must have the power to impeach. Because otherwise a president might be able to use his authority and pardons and such to prevent an investigation from getting to him.

...

BRUCE FEIN: I think the spark against the Libby commutation is a little bit different focus. I think it's less on the idea he's covering up for Cheney or Bush than the indication that Bush is totally heedless of any honor for law and accountability. That he has special rules for him and his cabinet. You may recall at the outset of the investigation he said, "Anybody in my office who is responsible for this leak will not work for me." Karl Rove was shown to leak and Karl Rove was still sitting in the White House. And he says, "Well, he will issue a commutation here." But he's not issued commutations in similar circumstances to anybody else.

Moreover, the perjury of the obstruction of justice of Libby is a carbon copy of Clinton, which Republicans, including me, supported. That's why I said you've got to give a stiff sentence here. How can you say that Clinton's deserves impeachment and here you're communing someone who did the same thing. And it's that sort of outrage that this is now a sneering attitude towards everybody else. "I am king. You play by other people's rules, but as long as I am in the White House, I get to play by my rules." That is something that-

(Funny, Heilige doesn't seem to have a problem with the impeaching of Clinton, yet he has a problem with Scooter sitting in jail for doing the same thing. "Pursuing a bogus investigation with the intent to indict for perjury is more of a scandal for Fitzgerald in my opinion." -- Think he'd say the same thing about Ken Starr?)
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:01 PM   #32
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

The reason I hate talking about politics is that nobody ever changes their mind once they reach age 18. Once they become a voting adult, they are correct, period, no matter what. Somebody can present incontrovertible proof that their views are wrong and they will be completely ignored, attacked, or at the very least they'll claim "agree to disagree."

The thing people don't realize is that just because there are 2 sides to everything does not mean we have correctly identified the 2 legitimate sides in American politics. Today's Republican party is not legitimate. Anyone who calls himself a true conservative should not align themselves with the Neocons. Because they're not ideologically sound. Do conservatives believe in taking advantage of religion for personal gain, for high-stakes corruption, for putting their nation in danger for political gain? How are those conservative ideals? Yet a quarter of people still approve of everything the President's doing. That's one in four. How can you explain that? Do they see something noble in remaining loyal to their Prez against all reason?
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

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Originally Posted by geeWiz15
The reason I hate talking about politics is that nobody ever changes their mind once they reach age 18. Once they become a voting adult, they are correct, period, no matter what. Somebody can present incontrovertible proof that their views are wrong and they will be completely ignored, attacked, or at the very least they'll claim "agree to disagree."

The thing people don't realize is that just because there are 2 sides to everything does not mean we have correctly identified the 2 legitimate sides in American politics. Today's Republican party is not legitimate. Anyone who calls himself a true conservative should not align themselves with the Neocons. Because they're not ideologically sound. Do conservatives believe in taking advantage of religion for personal gain, for high-stakes corruption, for putting their nation in danger for political gain? How are those conservative ideals? Yet a quarter of people still approve of everything the President's doing. That's one in four. How can you explain that? Do they see something noble in remaining loyal to their Prez against all reason?
the first part is correct...the second part is you trying to do what you said can't be done in the first part...lol
nice try though!
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:24 PM   #34
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

I know very intelligent people who are incredibly conservative who voted Kerry, or would have if they had been old enough. I asked one why and he replied something along the lines of, I'm paraphrasing but this was the gist of it, "every time I open the newspaper there is some Republican or Republican ideologue involved in a sex scandal, or a drug scandal, or committing treason, manipulating God for personal gain, or lying to the public. If I were to vote for these people I wouldn't be able to live with myself. Democrats I disagree with. Republicans disgust me." (the politicians not the people)

I think the thing about Neocons that amazes me the most is this "they're out to get us" mentality even though they hold most of the power most of the time. They make their very own blatantly biased newspapers, radio stations, TV new stations, and even their very own YouTube to combat this so-called "Liberal conspiracy" that DOESN'T EXIST. It can't! Have you seen these liberals? These people couldn't even get their **** together enough to take the 2004 election which was GIVEN to them. And you're telling me they're capable of a vast media conspiracy?

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Old 07-25-2007, 08:48 AM   #35
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Default Re: Sheehan arrested for calling for an Impeachment

Quote:
I think the thing about Neocons that amazes me the most is this "they're out to get us" mentality even though they hold most of the power most of the time. They make their very own blatantly biased newspapers, radio stations, TV new stations, and even their very own YouTube to combat this so-called "Liberal conspiracy" that DOESN'T EXIST. It can't! Have you seen these liberals? These people couldn't even get their **** together enough to take the 2004 election which was GIVEN to them. And you're telling me they're capable of a vast media conspiracy?

anybody who has really been payin attention to the neocons has realized that these guys are poison to the republic.....

they only care about 'manifest destiny' and gaining power. they dont care for the constitution or the rule of law... They change the laws and skirt the issues to their advantage and they have no conscious when it comes to lying killing and stealing...They knew they were lying to the american people when they got us into this war with iraq..Hell I knew they were lying too..the way they quashed the weapons inspectors and undermined Hans Blix was a dead giveaway.... but what scare the constutional scholars the most is Bush & Cheyney's flagrant abuse of power...You cant just go around spying on americans, you cant create prisons outside of our republic for uses that would be illegal here (and in most countries)...you cant commit fraud against the american people by lying to them about saddam and iraq to us into a war....you cannot kidnap people in other countries against the will of their governments and fly them to some secret prison and torture them...It is illegal and it deserves impeachment...

Bush and his neocons got their "pearl Harbor" that they some how predicted (I personally think they were behind it) and ecer since then they have been lying and conniving and the country is spiraling further out of control..they need to be impeached and rebuked so no president after them ever attempts this course of action again
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