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Old 07-31-2007, 09:38 AM   #136
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

Quote:
Originally Posted by el_locoteee
isn't this a Post move (and a clutch play?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX1bUoMOs9k

I saw the * but you are using way under 7 footers for you argument and role player like morning and 0 offense players like Wallace for your argument.

With that logic Horry > NBA.

Let me leave by saying this. Dirk could of been the greatest big man to ever play the game if he had a post up game too. With his ability to extend the range that far he could of been better than TD, Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, it doesn't matter if they had more rings. I still believe that Dirk needs a post up game, or they need to change their starting center. They're more than a step close to winning a title, but something has to be done about their roster. Specifically about their center. I dont hate Dirk, like I said I would of liked if he was in my team but his big gap has been hunting him his entire career. If he were be able to post, he would be unstopable, taking big men out of the paint and posting smaler players if opposite coaches try that defensive stragedy. Going back to were I first started, Dallas made a mistake by thinking that they didn't need a post up game. That with this new style of big men from Europe they were going to win, they are but they need someone that can score inside. Which is the whole point of this thread. And for you el locotee, you know I'm right. You never proved me wrong, Unless you think that a video is going to change NBA history. Admited, you need someone inside to win a title. I don't understand what's hard to understand about that. Nobody was able to beat my list by the way. So I guess nobody can prove me wrong.

Last edited by steve franchise : 07-31-2007 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:38 AM   #137
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

It's a pet hate of mine but at the same time they have been around for a long time now. Some big guys lack the toughness(Dirk and Okur come to mind here) some guys lack the frame(KG as an example) some guys lack the brains(Sheed).

The problem starts with Jordan though for a lot of them, guys wanting to be like Mike, so instead of learning the post game(the forgotten part of Jordan's game) they learn crossovers and 3's(something Jordan didnt shoot many of in reality) and you get these big guys with no inside skills and good outside skills. Big guys wanting to be small and it is getting worse.

Another huge problem is there arent any teachers any more. College coaches have to win, so they arent developing kids. Same at the pro level. HS is already becoming like that also. Used to be about how many college/pro players you produced, now its win/loss. So the development level has stopped developing and big post players take the most development. It is far easier to teach them to shoot 3's and run a gimmicky offense where the center is used to spread the floor. Just the way it is now, you are still going to get a Shaq or Duncan type, but I cant see us seeing an era like the 90's where half the teams had good inside bigs.
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Old 07-31-2007, 11:24 AM   #138
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
A three point shooting center can be of great benefit to a team. He forces the opposing big men to guard him on the perimeter, thus opening up the paint for his teammates to drive and create. It all depends on how his play is incorporated into the context of the offense. Not all 3 point shooting by big men is bad.
They can also pull their heads out and have a smaller defender on him, leaving the big guy down in the paint to play defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
If you remember, one of the Lakers' main problems when they faced the Blazers back in the day was Sabonis's ability to hit the three. Shaq, who wasn't comfortable stepping out onto the perimeter, was forced to do so in guarding Sabonis. When Shaq didn't step up, Sabonis would take the three. When he did, Stoudemire would find ways to get into the paint and score because of the lack of shot blocking inside. The good thing about Sabonis is that he also had somewhat of a low post game.
Sabonis did not hurt the Lakers by shooting threes. He hurt the Lakers because he was a GREAT passer (regardless of height) who used his height advantage to find the cutter. When Shaq rotated out, Sabo passed, when Shaq stayed in the lane, Sabo shot the three. He was the exception, not the rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
I think that if a big man can operate from the post and can also hit threes, he should use every weapon in his arsenal as effectively as possible. Even then, I don't fault players like Dirk and Okur for their perimeter games. They are very good at what they do. The key is to surround them with, or allow them to play with others who complement their strengths.
Dirk negates his height advantage when he roams around the three point line. That is not a bad thing if he is shooting well, but it does mean that he is not taking advantage of his height.
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Old 07-31-2007, 11:38 AM   #139
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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Originally Posted by steve franchise
Let me leave by saying this. Dirk could of been the greatest big man to ever play the game if he had a post up game too. With his ability to extend the range that far he could of been better than TD, Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, it doesn't matter if they had more rings.
IMO, Kareem's sky hook, Hakeem's dream shake, and Shaq's drop step are the three greatest offensive weapons in NBA history. If Dirk had any one of those in his bag, then he could be as good as those players on offense. But he does not. Some would argue that Dirk's 3 is his weapon, so he has something comparable, but I disagree. Those three moves are completely unstoppable by anyone other than another great big or a crooked ref. Dirk's 3 is defendable by any player on the court taller than 6'7".
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:07 AM   #140
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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Originally Posted by steve franchise
Did you watch the GS, Dallas series, I guess you didint because they were saying it straight up right there while the MVP was playing.

Oh great comeback man. Thanks for that.

I watched the series and noticed nothing out of the ordinary about the way Dirk played. His shots weren't falling, so what? Tons of players have their bad series' and no one says a word about it. The MVP is decided in the regular part of the season. You know, the 82 game part, where playoffs don't mean for ****. If I remember correctly wasn't he awarded the MVP after that series anyway?
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:54 AM   #141
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

How about a new topic:

3s shooting 7-Footers

What do you think?
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:29 AM   #142
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve franchise
Let me leave by saying this. Dirk could of been the greatest big man to ever play the game if he had a post up game too.

And if Shaq could shoot free-throws he'd be a hell of a lot better too. But guess what he can't, just like Dirk doesn't have a low-post game, so leave out the what-ifs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve franchise
With his ability to extend the range that far he could of been better than TD, Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, it doesn't matter if they had more rings.

Hakeem wasn't a 7 footer. If you're going to talk about 7-footers, then talk about 7-footers. Don't go putting in players below 7 feet just because they re-enforce your argument. Hell I could list a bunch of 3 point shooting players below 7-feet that have won championships, but it wouldn't really matter because that's not your argument. Your argument is that with an inside threat your chance of winning a championship is greatly improved, which is true. However, it just seems like this thread is a veiled attempt at bashing Dirk. He is a bit of a soft player and playing inside is not his game. The thing is he actually doesn't shoot too many 3s, he's more of a high-post player. There are about 30 other forwards who launched more triples then him last season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve franchise
Dallas made a mistake by thinking that they didn't need a post up game. That with this new style of big men from Europe they were going to win, they are but they need someone that can score inside. Which is the whole point of this thread.

I think they've realised they need a player with a low post game to compliment Dirk's. However like many people have said there aren't very many that are around and available. How about you make a list of player's that are 7-foot and are legitimate inside threats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve franchise
Nobody was able to beat my list by the way. So I guess nobody can prove me wrong.

That's because your list was retarded and didn't even satisfy the criteria you yourself had imposed upon it.
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:33 AM   #143
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekzistenz
And if Shaq could shoot free-throws he'd be a hell of a lot better too. But guess what he can't, just like Dirk doesn't have a low-post game, so leave out the what-ifs.



Hakeem wasn't a 7 footer. If you're going to talk about 7-footers, then talk about 7-footers. Don't go putting in players below 7 feet just because they re-enforce your argument. Hell I could list a bunch of 3 point shooting players below 7-feet that have won championships, but it wouldn't really matter because that's not your argument. Your argument is that with an inside threat your chance of winning a championship is greatly improved, which is true. However, it just seems like this thread is a veiled attempt at bashing Dirk. He is a bit of a soft player and playing inside is not his game. The thing is he actually doesn't shoot too many 3s, he's more of a high-post player. There are about 30 other forwards who launched more triples then him last season.



I think they've realised they need a player with a low post game to compliment Dirk's. However like many people have said there aren't very many that are around and available. How about you make a list of player's that are 7-foot and are legitimate inside threats.



That's because your list was retarded and didn't even satisfy the criteria you yourself had imposed upon it.

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Old 08-01-2007, 04:34 AM   #144
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

Is there any reason for this post other than to rip on Dirk?

Coming from a guy who chose Steve Francis as his go-to online nickname?
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:33 AM   #145
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunch@Five
so you wouldn't have a problem with Dirk shooting 3's if he was 6'7, despite being a worse player?
Dirk is playing the way it suits him best, the way he can bring the best performance. That includes shooting the 3, because, frankly, he is one of the best outside shooters in the whole damn league.
maybe coz jordan was on there team idiot. the only reason why there are no bigmen left is because jordan changed the game, everyone expects a guard 2 take them 2 a championship now which is pure bull**** cept for jordan. thats why jordan is GOAT coz he changed the game. now u still need a pf/c that can get the job done, or at least a good rebounder. thats why kobe gets eaten. whos he got inside a sf trying 2 play big and a pf/c combination that will never develop inside bynum and kwame brown.
traditional basketball will always beat those pfs that shoot 3's. why? because pfs are built to play like pfs. not 2 play like a guard.
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:18 AM   #146
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

Quote:
Originally Posted by jo3y91
maybe coz jordan was on there team idiot. the only reason why there are no bigmen left is because jordan changed the game, everyone expects a guard 2 take them 2 a championship now which is pure bull**** cept for jordan. thats why jordan is GOAT coz he changed the game. now u still need a pf/c that can get the job done, or at least a good rebounder. thats why kobe gets eaten. whos he got inside a sf trying 2 play big and a pf/c combination that will never develop inside bynum and kwame brown.
traditional basketball will always beat those pfs that shoot 3's. why? because pfs are built to play like pfs. not 2 play like a guard.

Haha, what are arguing in this point exactly, because frankly, I don't understand. We all know Jordan was great, but Jordan never forced any 7 footers to play on the perimeter. Why would he? 7 footers would get eaten alive up there every time. In the 90's the 7 footers weren't as athletically gifted as they are now (bar a few. ie. Hakeemm, Robinson) but they still stayed inside and took the inside shots. The 7 foot shooting forward/center makes any team unique. That doesn't mean they'll win championships, but it means that they can create mismatches easier then most teams.

Sure, it's been said that you need a dominant big man inside to win. But soon it wont be like that. There is a shortage of big men in the league now, and teams will have to rely on guards, and shooting forwards to win the games for them.

Positions are not defined anymore either. It was okay when Johson played PG despite being 6'9, but it's not okay for Dirk to shoot because he's 7'0? How does that work? There isn't a defined height you must be to play certain positions anymore. Back in the 60's, 70's and possibly earlier eighties there might have been, but now, it's different. You have 'undersized' centers such as Wallace, you have 'oversized' guards such as Joe Johnson, Shaun Livingston. The day when a strong inside target will win you a game will come to an end, and something new will be needed.
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Old 08-02-2007, 02:53 PM   #147
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyB41
Is there any reason for this post other than to rip on Dirk?

Coming from a guy who chose Steve Francis as his go-to online nickname?

What's wrong with Steve Francis, Dirty B , it's not my fault I,m right.
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Old 08-02-2007, 04:35 PM   #148
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

Quote:
Sure, it's been said that you need a dominant big man inside to win. But soon it wont be like that. There is a shortage of big men in the league now, and teams will have to rely on guards, and shooting forwards to win the games for them.
How stupider can you get, didnt you see how Kobe struggled after Shaq left. How the hell are teams relying on guards and shooting power fowards to win?
Teams may rely on guards that have an inside precense too, not guards only.
EXAMPLE: Tony Parker had TIM DUNCAN, Kobe had Shaq, Magic Johnson, Kareem,
When there's an inside presence it takes away the pressure from the guards, and shooting power forwards.
Quote:
But soon it wont be like that. There is a shortage of big men in the league now
Are you taking in disregard the young and developing low post players today in the NBA? Yao Ming, Dwight Howard, Carlos Boozer, Eddie Curry, Nene, Tyson Chandler, Crish Bosh, Elton Brand, Samuel Dalembert, Chris Kaman, Al Jefferson, Randolph, Pau Gasol, Emeka Okafor, and not to mention Greg Oden, Al Horford, Big Baby Glen Davis, Spencer Hawes, McRoberts.
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:14 PM   #149
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve franchise
Let me leave by saying this. Dirk could of been the greatest big man to ever play the game if he had a post up game too. With his ability to extend the range that far he could of been better than TD, Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, it doesn't matter if they had more rings.

LOL, you say that a big man will absolutely pwn the NBA with 3pt shooting and a post up game?

Quote:
I still believe that Dirk needs a post up game, or they need to change their starting center. They're more than a step close to winning a title, but something has to be done about their roster. Specifically about their center.

Yeah we all believe Dirk needs a post up game. Now about their roster... tell me, how can they do any better than what they've done with their roster for the past 10 years? I want specific answers here.

Quote:
I dont hate Dirk, like I said I would of liked if he was in my team but his big gap has been hunting him his entire career. If he were be able to post, he would be unstopable, taking big men out of the paint and posting smaler players if opposite coaches try that defensive stragedy.


If allen iverson had a consistent jumpshot, he would be unstoppable as well.

Quote:
Going back to were I first started, Dallas made a mistake by thinking that they didn't need a post up game. That with this new style of big men from Europe they were going to win, they are but they need someone that can score inside.

No you did not. You started with Okur being outscored by Yao. YOu started with 7 footers shooting threes. Not Dirk developing a post up game. All people know you need someone who could score inside to win a chip, but no exclusively.

I don't think locotee disagrees with having a big guy inside to score is a plus. I don't think anybody did. I think you're the only one who thinks that seven footers who shoot 3's actually hurt their teams more.

I say again:

Post up bigs > Jump shot bigs > 0 talent bigs

Since there is an utter lack of post up bigs who could actually deliver... then why not go for 2nd best.
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:18 PM   #150
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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If allen iverson had a consistent jumpshot, he would be unstoppable as well.


If any player had a consistent jumpshot they would be unstoppable. Allen Iverson doesn't live and die with his jumpers. He can go to the foul line and use his speed to go inside and then shoot free throws. As oppose to Nowitzki who feeling or not feeling it he's outside. Don't tell me he drives inside and goes to the foul line.

Quote:
I think you're the only one who thinks that seven footers who shoot 3's actually hurt their teams more.

I think building a team around a 7ft guy that lives by jumpshots was a mistake. Big men that extend the range don't hurt their team. They're suppose to give space to players working in the paint, something that Dallas has never had over the past 10 yrs. Plus, is not like 7ft or 6ft made a difference. You're still outside shooting jumpers, even when you're being guarded by smaller players the whole time. So being tall doesn't really matter when you're trying to score.
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