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Old 07-26-2007, 10:19 AM   #16
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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Originally Posted by Fab17
The Bulls won 3 rings with Luc Longley, Dennis Rodman and Dickey Simpkins being their inside presence.

A team can win without a big in the middle. It's difficult but not impossible.

Everybody talks about how Jordan won 6 titles without a man in the middle. You see, they're surprised. Dennis Rodman was a rebounding machine and definetely Longley is better than Dampier and Diop. Dirk needs something better just like what Jordan had. Name another team that won a title without a man in the middle. There are a few out there but most of them required a big man in the middle. If you're not going to have one, at least have good role players not Diop and Dampier. Players that respond when a bunch of smaller players than Dirk (Richardson, Matt Barnes, Stephen Jackson, Baron Davis, Petrius) crawl up on him. Don't tell me you didn't see the series. Guards were all over Nowitzki and smaller GUARDS, I repeat smaller GUARDS
stopped Mr. MVP's shooting tactics and he had no game left. Mr. MVP with 8 points in game six(elimination game). MVP! 8pts! What!
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:12 AM   #17
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

I don't really like seeing 7 footers shooting threes either, but Dirk doesn't have post skills so he does what he is good at. Yes its not going to bring him a ring and he can't take a bunch of role players to a ring by himself. Its is pretty hard to take a bunch of role players to a ring.

Dirk has more than role players on his team but they just can't go all the way. Yes most teams need a presence inside to win a ring who ever disagreed? I agree that Dallas is not going to win a ring with no paint presence, but just cuz of that you can't say that 7 footers should shoot threes. They are pretty useful sometimes. They can't carry a team to a ring, but which perimater player can? Jordan did it...well he is the GOAT.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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Originally Posted by steve franchise
Why do you think trailblazers chose Oden over Durant. They're thinking big. Every championship team has had an inside precense and with Dallas not having one I wouldn't be surprised if they keep dreaming for a ring.
Championship teams had guys like: Bill Rusell, Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem , Rasheed and Big Ben, Duncan, and later on Yao is going to be on the list.
sheed shoots 3's as well... so everything you said doesnt connect now... get your facts straight
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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Nowitski, Baragani, Yi, and Okur might extend the range but to they won't ever win a ring without an inside precense.

As has already been stated, all of those guys have inside guys to complement them. And you are forgetting that Okur already has a ring, on a team where the other two bigs either shoot threes quite frequently (Sheed) or can't shoot from anywhere (Ben). So your whole theory falls apart with the very player (Okur) you based the entire thing on.

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Theres nothing wrong of a good pg rebounding but....how many rings does he holds

The exact same amount as Steve Francis.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:49 AM   #20
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

Trying to turn players into something they're not is a great way to completely waste talent.

It's not that guys like Nowitzki, Garnett or Okur are doing disservice to their teams by playing in the high post or farther out - that's just where they're most effective. So it's up to the team's management to see that (as you have failed to do) and compliment those guys with a competent low post player.

Utah has done it. Dallas and Minnesota haven't. Who went furthest in the playoffs this year?

That's not nearly the only reason, but it's a large, large part of it.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:55 AM   #21
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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Originally Posted by rknine15
sheed shoots 3's as well... so everything you said doesnt connect now... get your facts straight

Yeah but the difference is that when they get GUARDS on him like Golden State did on Nowitzki he can post them up. He would probably dominate the boards and have thirty point game, posting those guards or small forwards whatever. He is a combo forward not like Dirk which is a one dimentional player. What else do you want from Sheed he can shoot the outside shot AND post. He's not one dimensional like Dirk. If you actually watched Basketball you knew Rasheed's characteristics. Don't waste my time, end the thread like that. I wouldn't have a problem with Dirk if he had SOME post up moves.
Plus Rasheed had the advantage to step out and hit them three's because he had McDyess and Maxiell in there, not guys like Dampier and Diop.
I been having my facts all along you get yours right, just ask anybody out there if rasheed is a post presence.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:55 AM   #22
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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Originally Posted by steve franchise
Lets see if you can beat my list of non shooting threes 7-footers that won rings.

LIST WITH RINGS: Kareem, Hakeem, Rusell, Wilt, Duncan, Rasheed, Shaq, Moses Malone, Walton, the list goes on.
NO RINGS: Nowitzki (10 yr career), Yao (5yrs-big difference), Mutumbo, Eiwing. As you can see the list is short. Find me a list of nine 7 footers shooting threes that won rings. When you can't find one just reply.

How about Bill Laimbeer?

A 6'11" 245lb center who shot 32% from three for his career? He has two rings, and was an integral part of that Pistons team.

It's not nine 7 footers, but I can definitely find one. And if you're going to argue about one inch in height, then you're going to need to go out with the exact same measuring tape and measure every single player that's listed at 7' and higher. Many are 6'10" and 6'11". We all know about the discrepancies of listed player heights in basketball.

There are plenty of successful big men with range, but not all of them have rings. But then, many even greater players don't have rings either. Frank Brickowski was a solid three point shooter for Seattle during their heyday, and for their Finals run. Arvydas Sabonis came into the league late in his career, but he was another good three point shooter, and had plenty of success in the Olympics. Sam Perkins is another one, an integral part of successful teams in Los Angeles, Seattle and Indiana.

Oh, I almost forgot Rasheed Wallace, who also has a ring.

Teams in the past didn't really build around big men with range, and didn't properly utilize big men with range because they were very narrow minded with their approach to positions. Big men were forced into the paint, no matter what their skillset was. Twenty years ago, someone would've forced Dirk to stop working on shooting three pointers and forced him to work being a low post center. Shaq actually has a crossover, something that NO center had twenty, thirty years ago. Big men that could face up and shoot were the exception, not the rule. The same goes for little guys as well. Pippen would've never been as good of a player if he didn't play a lot of point guard back when he was 6'1"/6'2". There's a good chance he would've been just another Stacey Augmon. When players are developed according to their skills and not the skills of the position their size dictates they should play, they generally are better players.

Who wouldn't be a better player within the comfort zone of their own abilities? It's not Dirk's fault he's tall, but it would've been his coaches' fault if they ignored his natural abilities and forced him to be something he's not. I don't have a problem with big men shooting threes, in fact I prefer it if a team has a center or power forward with some serious range. It forces the defense to adjust and not pack the paint. If I was a coach or a GM, my power forwards -better- be able to consistently hit shots out to 18-20 feet. I don't necessarily think they need three range, but it certainly doesn't hurt if they hit 'em.

It's players like Manute Bol was drilling those ugly three-pointers that made me cringe!
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:58 AM   #23
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

As long as he still has prototypical big men post skills, shoot as many 3's as you want. A.k.a Rasheed Wallace or Chris Webber. It's not like 3's hurt your team, so it's fine. It's just that when I see big men tanks shooting 3's and not banging in the post, that's when it's wrong.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:58 AM   #24
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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NO RINGS: Nowitzki (10 yr career), Yao (5yrs-big difference), Mutumbo, Eiwing. As you can see the list is short.
I love how you leave off handfuls of high-level big men to make your point sound better.

Please stop posting immediately.
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Old 07-26-2007, 12:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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What else do you want from Sheed he can shoot the outside shot AND post.

Work ethic.
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Old 07-26-2007, 12:13 PM   #26
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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Originally Posted by CakeorDeath
As has already been stated, all of those guys have inside guys to complement them. And you are forgetting that Okur already has a ring, on a team where the other two bigs either shoot threes quite frequently (Sheed) or can't shoot from anywhere (Ben). So your whole theory falls apart with the very player (Okur) you based the entire thing on.



The exact same amount as Steve Francis.

Ask Okur if he feels like a champion? He didn't even get garbage time.Mike James is a guard just like Steve Francis and he has a ring. How come you don't talk about that. Don't type what's convenient for you. Rasheed not only shot three's he was posting. What are blind that you can;t see Rasheed posting AND shooting the outside shot. That's what i call a combo forward. Plus like I said to someone else, he had McDyess and Big Ben in the paint.
sheed worked the paint and shot three's. Next time you watch Detroit open your eyes and don't just say that Rasheed is a one dimensional player like Nowitzki and Okur. By the way Okur has Boozer inside, he can work the paint. If you call Dampier and Diop "complement guys inside" then keep dreaming for a ring. Or you can keep dreaming about D-Wade and how he EARNED his ring by playing like a real superstar allong Shaq(7 footer that works the paint) thats a real inside precense.
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Old 07-26-2007, 12:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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You NEVER hear anyone saying Jason Kidd should stop rebounding and stick to being a point guard, wich is frankly just as ridiculous.
That is a horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible point.

Did I get my point across how mind bendingly stupid that comment was?
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Old 07-26-2007, 12:25 PM   #28
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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Originally Posted by JalenRawley
How about Bill Laimbeer?

A 6'11" 245lb center who shot 32% from three for his career? He has two rings, and was an integral part of that Pistons team.

It's not nine 7 footers, but I can definitely find one. And if you're going to argue about one inch in height, then you're going to need to go out with the exact same measuring tape and measure every single player that's listed at 7' and higher. Many are 6'10" and 6'11". We all know about the discrepancies of listed player heights in basketball.

There are plenty of successful big men with range, but not all of them have rings. But then, many even greater players don't have rings either. Frank Brickowski was a solid three point shooter for Seattle during their heyday, and for their Finals run. Arvydas Sabonis came into the league late in his career, but he was another good three point shooter, and had plenty of success in the Olympics. Sam Perkins is another one, an integral part of successful teams in Los Angeles, Seattle and Indiana.

Oh, I almost forgot Rasheed Wallace, who also has a ring.

Teams in the past didn't really build around big men with range, and didn't properly utilize big men with range because they were very narrow minded with their approach to positions. Big men were forced into the paint, no matter what their skillset was. Twenty years ago, someone would've forced Dirk to stop working on shooting three pointers and forced him to work being a low post center. Shaq actually has a crossover, something that NO center had twenty, thirty years ago. Big men that could face up and shoot were the exception, not the rule. The same goes for little guys as well. Pippen would've never been as good of a player if he didn't play a lot of point guard back when he was 6'1"/6'2". There's a good chance he would've been just another Stacey Augmon. When players are developed according to their skills and not the skills of the position their size dictates they should play, they generally are better players.

Who wouldn't be a better player within the comfort zone of their own abilities? It's not Dirk's fault he's tall, but it would've been his coaches' fault if they ignored his natural abilities and forced him to be something he's not. I don't have a problem with big men shooting threes, in fact I prefer it if a team has a center or power forward with some serious range. It forces the defense to adjust and not pack the paint. If I was a coach or a GM, my power forwards -better- be able to consistently hit shots out to 18-20 feet. I don't necessarily think they need three range, but it certainly doesn't hurt if they hit 'em.

It's players like Manute Bol was drilling those ugly three-pointers that made me cringe!

You really think 32% from downtown helped Detroit win a ring. Oh I almost forgot, Rasheed actually has a POST PRESENCE. He can work the paint AND extend the range. Not like Dirk. Is not Dirk's foult that he's tall. It is his foult he let some small guards and forwards (Golden State) take him out of his game. He was the MVP. Baron Davis played better than him, and he was injured. Is not my fault that Dirk doesn't have good role players that can work in the paint. Yeah Shaq's crossover only help in during the All-Star game. Ask him to teach that to Dirk, maybe like that he can drive to the basket.
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Old 07-26-2007, 12:30 PM   #29
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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Originally Posted by LJJ
I don't understand where all complaining on 7 footers shooting threes comes from.

You NEVER hear anyone saying Jason Kidd should stop rebounding and stick to being a point guard, wich is frankly just as ridiculous.
Wrong. Rebounds aren't bricks; when you have one of your bigs floating around on the three-point line you lose an offensive rebounder and if he's off (as Dirk was vs. Golden State) he's useless, something a seven-footer should never be. But when Jason Kidd is rebounding there is no down side. If anyone could ever find consistent success running their pg (or whoever Kidd is guarding) out whenever Kidd goes for and fails to get an offensive rebound for easy fast break points there might be a similarity but so far no one has managed to hurt Kidd's teams for Kidds' hustling. And seeing as whenever he doesn't get the board Kidd hustles up the floor to play d and rarely if ever gets burned for it, the rebounding effort is nothing but positive.


For the record, although big men taking jumpers isn't completely bad it's definitely been demonstrated that the conventional low-post big is the superior offensive cornerstone. He may average more points but think about the fact that Nowitzki is talking about how Dallas needs a low-post player (and is trying to become more of one himself). Tim Duncan isn't trying to have Dallas find a big-scoring jumpshooting seven-footer, is he?
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Old 07-26-2007, 12:36 PM   #30
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Default Re: 7-Footers shooting 3s

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Originally Posted by saKf
I love how you leave off handfuls of high-level big men to make your point sound better.

Please stop posting immediately.

Yeah, you know my point is right. What else do you want. Dirk Nowitzki even admitted his team needs one. One you prove my point wrong or should i say when you find my list of seven footers that didn't work the paint and one rings, I'll stop posting when you find my list. Don't say Rasheed because he knows how to work the paint too, he's a combo forward and doesn't run away from the paint like Dirk.
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