We're already gonna be over the luxary threshold..........
So why not see what he's asking for.. He'd provide some scoring from the perimeter, as well as play some D.. Gives us more options at the SG position..
We're already gonna be over the luxary threshold..........
So why not see what he's asking for.. He'd provide some scoring from the perimeter, as well as play some D.. Gives us more options at the SG position..
The Nuggets already have JR Smith, Von Wafer, Diawara, and Kleiza, who can all play SG, thus they don't need Barnes. They also have Iverson who can play both SG and PG, and Atkins and Carter who play PG. However, assuming that they don't trade Camby or Evans, they do need a backup center if they don't re-sign Sampson. They may invite Jelani McCoy to training camp, based upon his performance in the summer league.
The Nuggets already have JR Smith, Von Wafer, Diawara, and Kleiza, who can all play SG, thus they don't need Barnes. They also have Iverson who can play both SG and PG, and Atkins and Carter who play PG. However, assuming that they don't trade Camby or Evans, they do need a backup center if they don't re-sign Sampson. They may invite Jelani McCoy to training camp, based upon his performance in the summer league.
My point. They don't need another guard. And I would be afraid to sign Barnes. Most GM's are questioning if the system MADE Barnes or did he make himself. I believe that is why he has not received any offers.
Plus I would like to see them sign McCoy instead of resigning Sampson.
The Nuggets already have JR Smith, Von Wafer, Diawara, and Kleiza, who can all play SG, thus they don't need Barnes. They also have Iverson who can play both SG and PG, and Atkins and Carter who play PG. However, assuming that they don't trade Camby or Evans, they do need a backup center if they don't re-sign Sampson. They may invite Jelani McCoy to training camp, based upon his performance in the summer league.
Are you really comparing these SG's to Matt Barnes? Statisticly Barnes shoots just as good from 3 as anyone on your list.He is by far a better peremeter defender then any of them.He brings a 6-7 guard to the backcourt. We are giving up alot on defense by starting a 6'0 and 5'11 backcourt. He really understands how to move with out the ball and make cuts which is exactly the type of player you need when you have 2 superstars like melo and A.I. that draw constant attention and double teams. He can bring it up the court and play the 1-3 positions like he did for the Warriors which makes him more versatile then everyone you named. I like Atkins but i would rather see A.I. run the point. A.i. is our scoring point guard. Its no coincidence he led the team in assist even with blake here. Atkins is a shoot 1st point,we don't need that along side A.I.,Melo,and Nene. He would be much better coming off the bench because he can focus on scoring. Kleiza is a solid player but we need him to back up melo. Can you name one thing Diawara brings to the team? JR smith is an excellent bench player. He is way too streaky to get big-time minutes at the 2 and his Defense is shaky to say the least. He was also nowhere to be found in the playoffs. I definately like getting Wafer for cheap though.To say we don't NEED barnes because of the guards we already have is crazy.If anything that means we can afford to get rid of some in order to bring in something better.The only good reason not to get barnes is money...
I'd love Barnes on the Nugs, and he really fills in some team needs (as already mentioned, perimeter D and 3pt shooting).
Still, it's kind of a long shot because of the players already signed. Sign and trade maybe? Or I'm being delusional and that's impossible? Anyway, he would be nice.
That, or somehow expect JR's shooting and Diawara's defense and hustle magically merge into one player.
Barnes hasn't recieved the offers he hoped for which is good for everyone except him. If his market value stays low MAYBE we can afford to make a nice offer,he only made 744,000 last season. Also if Kenyon is back that means Evans and Najera will see less court time making one of them expendable.Why not propose some sort of trade? The Warriors need big men anyway.If we get Barnes our rotation would be nearly perfect.Keep in mind Barnes can play the 1-3 positions and if A.I. wants to float around Barnes can bring it up the floor.
Ai,Atkins,Carter
Barnes,JR,Wafer
Melo,Keiza,Barnes
Nene,Kenyon,Najera,Evans
Camby,Nene,Sampson or anyother backup we get
Going back to the money situation, We could make Barnes a decent offer simply by not resigning Diawara and Demarr Johnson.Also we have 4 power forwards which we don't need. If we just cut as much baggage as possible and bring in the right piece we can definately position ourselves for the title. You got A.I. the quickest man on the floor penetrating and dishing or taking it all the way to the bucket,Barnes slashing and hitting open shots as well as playing peremeter D,Melo one of the purest scorers in the league,Nene who is turning into a beast down low,and the defensive player of the year to anchor the team... We would also have firepower coming off the bench in Atkins,JR,and Kleiza, PLUS a reguvinated Martin.
I don't see much chemistry with Atkins starting along side A.I. He is a shoot 1st point and useless on defense. That backcourt would give up WAY too much size. Barnes would complement our offense much better and also bring much needed size and defense to the backcourt
He could be had for cheap, like stated, due to him not getting any good offers.. Plus, I'd take him over Diawara and Johnson.. JR Smith and Kleiza are best off the bench.. And Atkins and AI as our starting backcourt would be a huge liability on defense.. Atkins could run the bench with JR, Kleiza, and whoever..
I didn't think about trying some kind of sign-and-trade..
Either way, I'd be all for it if it happened..
Barnes is really no better than what we have already, and with the Nuggets already in the luxury tax, it's unrealistic to try and stack up on redundant 2 guards. Right now, the roster looks to be shaping up like this:
With room for one more minimum player, possibly Wafer or another guy from the summer league team. Karl has stated that he plans to start one of Atkins/Carter already, despite the size problem that it creates in the backcourt, but I'm sure he'll be flexible. JR is by far the best shooter of the bunch, and if he can get his life together, it wouldn't shock me to see him earn a starting spot. If Diawara can improve his consistency from downtown, he can become the perimeter defender that the team needs. And Kleiza, if he picks up where he left off last year, brings gritty defense, size, and rebounding at both the two and three positions (he'll play more than just backup SF). Atkins is what we've always wanted from our PG, a vet who will knock down shots and provide leadership. Carter showed he could perform in the playoffs last year, and brings much needed defense to the backcourt.
While I can see why you would want to get Barnes, he's really not much of an upgrade on anyone here. He brings the overall package better than any of Smith, Kleiza, or Diawara, but he's still not more than an average player in the league. And JR is a better shooter than Barnes, while Diawara is a better defender, and the only thing he has over Kleiza is the ability to guard smaller players more effectively. And he doesn't bring the veteran presence that we lacked in the playoffs last year. Overall not worth the 2-3 million starting price that he will still get.
In all likelihood, our roster is set at this point, save for one more contract for a late bench player. There is still a possibility of Evans being dealt, but I haven't heard much news on that front, so I wouldn't count on it. And while I think we're still pursuing Eddie Jones, he's also looking at offers from teams like Dallas, so that seems unlikely too. Talk of Camby also has died down.
And really, I don't see how it's a bad thing that not much happened. We stand pat, gain a valuable front court player in Martin (who is supposedly doing very well, although it's hard to be sure without seeing him on the court), and go into a season healthy and ready to play together as a team for 82 games. Now we just pray that no one goes down for the season on opening night.
If you wanna talk about saleries and who is worth what how can you justify JR smith getting paid nearly twice as much as matt barnes last year? To say JR is flat out a better shooter is flat out wrong. JR career 3pt percentage is 35% and Barnes is 34%, from the field Jr is 41% and Barnes is 45%.So I don't see where you are coming from. In the playoffs JR was 0-12 from downtown while Barnes shot 42%...If you look at their season stats there is no way you can convince me JR deserves twice his pay.They both played 23min a game
JR Pts 13, Rebounds 2,assist 1,steals .78, Blocks .1
Matt pts 10,Boards near 5, assist 2,steals 1,Blocks .5
To say barnes wouldn't be an upgrade to jr is wrong.Jr has shaky defense and his offense is very one dementional.He isn't ready for big time minutes and the playoffs were proof.he is much better coming off the bench for quick buckets.To say Diawara is a better defender is just CRAZY...if you look at Diawara's stats, for every steal he gets he averages 4 fouls. Does that sound like good Defense? What are you basing he is better then Barnes on?He has a 1:4.24 steal/foul ratio while Barnes has a 1:2.47 ratio and Barnes plays 5 more minutes a game.By the way Diawara's best stats was his 4pts a game followed by his 2fouls and you gotta love the 28% 3pt shooting.Barnes shoots better from 3 then Diawara does from the field. Diawara who is a free agent by the way only made about 300,000 less then Barnes.Would you honestly resign Diawara without even considering Barnes??? As far as your rotation do you not think this one would be better?Keep in mind A.I. is the best point on the team no matter who we bring in.He led the team avgeraging 7assist even with blake here
A.I.,Atkins,Carter
Barnes,JR,Wafer
Melo,Kleiza,Barnes
Nene,Kenyon,Najera
Camby,Evans or Sampson
Barnes can play the 2or3 and can even bring the ball upcourt which makes him the most versatile guard except A.I. JR still doesn't know how to move without the ball and the only thing he understands about offense is quick 3's.Barnes is excellent at cutting to the basket,he can bring it upcourt if A.I. wants to float,shoots just as good as JR and plays much better defense.I honestly don't see what the debate is besides money.Barnes is certainly worth JR's contract and I would forget about Diawara if it gave me the chance to get barnes.Barnes is the perfect role player to complement Nene melo and A.I. whereas kleiza JR and Atkins are better coming off the bench for the nuggs cuz they like to shoot 1st.With Barnes we would have solid fire power coming off the bench as well as k-mart,thats championship depth chart
If you wanna talk about saleries and who is worth what how can you justify JR smith getting paid nearly twice as much as matt barnes last year? To say JR is flat out a better shooter is flat out wrong. JR career 3pt percentage is 35% and Barnes is 34%, from the field Jr is 41% and Barnes is 45%.So I don't see where you are coming from. In the playoffs JR was 0-12 from downtown while Barnes shot 42%...If you look at their season stats there is no way you can convince me JR deserves twice his pay.They both played 23min a game
JR Pts 13, Rebounds 2,assist 1,steals .78, Blocks .1
Matt pts 10,Boards near 5, assist 2,steals 1,Blocks .5
To say barnes wouldn't be an upgrade to jr is wrong.Jr has shaky defense and his offense is very one dementional.He isn't ready for big time minutes and the playoffs were proof.he is much better coming off the bench for quick buckets.
First off, the reason JR earned twice as much as Barnes is because Barnes was playing on a minimum contract while JR was on his rookie deal. They will earn a similar figure next year, as it's unlikely Barnes signs for the minimum.
Your 3 point percentage stats are cute, but largely absolete. JR shot 39% to Barnes 36% last year, and while Barnes takes mostly wide open attempts, Smith's are often contested. Smith is probably top 5 in the league in pure shooting ability, but his shot selection holds his percentage back. Barnes is a decent three point shooter, who was hot during the playoffs. JR had the worst few games of his life in the playoffs. That hardly dictates how the rest of their careers will go.
In addition, JR is 21 and improving, and his ceiling is very high. If he can put his life together, he has a chance to be a star at shooting guard, and he has shown a willingness to work hard on his game. Barnes is 27, and will never be any better than he is now. He's a hard working hustle player, a perfect glue guy off the bench, but not someone you want starting on a championship quality team.
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To say Diawara is a better defender is just CRAZY...if you look at Diawara's stats, for every steal he gets he averages 4 fouls. Does that sound like good Defense? What are you basing he is better then Barnes on?He has a 1:4.24 steal/foul ratio while Barnes has a 1:2.47 ratio and Barnes plays 5 more minutes a game.By the way Diawara's best stats was his 4pts a game followed by his 2fouls and you gotta love the 28% 3pt shooting.Barnes shoots better from 3 then Diawara does from the field. Diawara who is a free agent by the way only made about 300,000 less then Barnes.Would you honestly resign Diawara without even considering Barnes??? As far as your rotation do you not think this one would be better?Keep in mind A.I. is the best point on the team no matter who we bring in.He led the team avgeraging 7assist even with blake here
I actually watch basketball. And the Nuggets. If you did too, you'd know Diawara was a rookie known for his hard work and defense, who struggled when given big minutes last year, and never really found his shot. Still, he shot 34% from three the second half of the year, almost as good as Barnes. And he's not a free agent, either; his contract had a team option that was picked up by the club.
Talk to any basketball expert and they will tell you that steals do not correlate with good defense. Many players who average high SPG are average defenders who cheat off their man to play passing lanes, forcing their teammates to cover them when they get beat. Bruce Bowen, for example, averages less than a steal per game, about 90th on the leaderboard for steals. Yet he's widely considered the best perimeter defender in the league. Khouba plays much the same way as Bowen, an annoying physical defender who's not afraid to get under the oppositions skin. It just so happens that he has no respect in the league, so he picks up alot of fouls.
And AI has proven to be an effective player off the ball, so you can expect to see him and Atkins/Carter sharing a backcourt plenty next season.
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Barnes can play the 2or3 and can even bring the ball upcourt which makes him the most versatile guard except A.I. JR still doesn't know how to move without the ball and the only thing he understands about offense is quick 3's.Barnes is excellent at cutting to the basket,he can bring it upcourt if A.I. wants to float,shoots just as good as JR and plays much better defense.I honestly don't see what the debate is besides money.Barnes is certainly worth JR's contract and I would forget about Diawara if it gave me the chance to get barnes.Barnes is the perfect role player to complement Nene melo and A.I. whereas kleiza JR and Atkins are better coming off the bench for the nuggs cuz they like to shoot 1st.With Barnes we would have solid fire power coming off the bench as well as k-mart,thats championship depth chart
Again, while overrating Barnes, you completely fail to understand the logistics of the situation. Here is our depth chart right now:
Every player there except Wafer is already under contract, and with those players we are slightly over the luxury tax. After his solid season in Golden State, Barnes will be looking for a good pay raise, not playing for the minimum again as you seem to think. That means he would want at least the remainder of our midlevel exception, which is about 2.5 million. It's likely he'll look for more than that, and will probably get it. But say he did want to come here, that's what we'd have to offer him. And being over the luxury threshhold already, Barnes would cost the team about 5 million. Meanwhile, he's not a player who's a significant improvement on what's already here, and he would prevent us from signing Wafer, a guy who for much less money will be content with whatever playing time can be found for him at the end of the bench.
If Barnes was free, I'd say go for it. He's not, so it makes no sense. He won't be in Denver next year, you can pretty much count on that (unless the Nuggets decide he's worth upwards of 4 million and get the Warriors to take Evans in a sign and trade. Also unlikely).
J.R. Smith is a better player.Matt barnes only recently has been giving playing time.Look at his carrer stats.The only season he began putting up threes on a consistent basis was last year.J.R. has alot more upside and should be a starter.
I agree with you JR has much upside,but thats just it.How can you say Barnes isn't ready to start on a championship team? if thats the case are you saying JR is? JR will grow into an excellent player but you can't tell me that right now in their careers JR brings more to the team then barnes.Besides the nuggs are thinking championship this yr or next,not years down the road when JR will become the player he should be.Barnes played a key role for the warriors and if they had some big men they coulda beat the jazz. I would say JR has one of the worst Bball IQ's on our team.And you are right about his 3pt shooting but his shot selection is his fault.He hasn't developed much to his game besides contested shots.He is our most athletic player but for some reason he would rather play like reggie miller. As far as Diawara i have NEVER heard a nugget fan say he was a good defender and im around them every day. The best thing you can say about him is he plays hard.Diawara is a good peremeter defender on the nuggs by default...Who else is there melo and jr?neither known for their D. We are known as one of the worse defensive teams in the league so for Diawara to stand out isn't saying much,it certainly doesn't equate to him being good. I agree with you he gets no respect from refs but why should he,and despite what you think i doubt he has earned this defensive reputation among players that you want to give him.. Don't you think JR could be our best peremeter defender if he really tried? What does Diawara have that JR doesn't besides heart,it certainly isn't physical ability.Like i said yes JR has more talent and much more upside then Barnes but JR is a raw athletic talent that will take time.The entire playoffs even the commentators noticed how as soon as JR got in the game the spurs would attack him.He isn't ready for the big time minutes because his all-around game isn't there yet, although i would like to see him and A.I. together rather then the smallest backcourt in the league.I was never really thinkin bout barnes like he was on the verge of coming but i like the idea. If you watch basketball and the nuggs like you say then you HAVE to know that Barnes brings more to your team then JR,atleast right now. JR smith is way too one dementional to see big time minutes at the 2 on any other on any good team.Why did he get let go by New Orleans and the Bulls.JR woulda been the biggest guard the bulls had.at the very least he should be their backup SG right? But because all of our guards except A.I. are so one dementional JR is our SG hands down.And no Diawara is not a good defender,he just looks like it compared to the rest of the nuggets.The only thing he does like Bowen is get in your face and play hard.You act like Diawara was just shuting people down!Bowen doesn't get alot of steals yes,but bowen is a GREAT defender,he can go the entire game guarding some of the best players in the league and still not foul out.Is that because he gets respect or he is that good?Diawara would foul out by halftime if he was in that role and it has more to do with him then his name. Remember being good and playing hard are 2 different things.If JR played hard on D diawara probably wouldn't even be on the team.
J.R. Smith is a better player.Matt barnes only recently has been giving playing time.Look at his carrer stats.The only season he began putting up threes on a consistent basis was last year.J.R. has alot more upside and should be a starter.
JR has more upside but to say he is the better player now is wrong.JR can shoot and dunk,thats as far as his game has evolved so far. JR still doesn't understand the game yet and he isn't good in the half court unless he is hot.He can shoot you into a game just as quickly as he can shoot you out.Barnes understands how to be a role player and play off of superstars.He complemented a lineup that often had 4 players that could score 30 on any given night.Thats the type of player we need alongside nene melo and Ai,not a shoot 1st point like Atkins or a streaky one dementional player like JR. Barnes can hit the open 3 and slash to the hole, doesn't force bad shots and plays defense.Again JR has much more upside but barnes brings an overall package to the back-court and is the kinda role player we need in the starting lineup.He doesn't need points to be effective unlike JR who if he isn't scoring might not have a stat...
Matt Barnes??
