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Old 08-08-2007, 11:14 AM   #16
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Default Re: Lamar Odom vs Toni Kukoc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Kukoc couldn't adequately guard any position -- he'd get beat off the dribble by 2/3's and posted up at will by 4/5's. There's no contest between them defensively imo. .

Same goes for Odom, really. He isn't bad like you think Kukoc was but I just can't swallow the notion that Odom is a good defender. I can't. Nothing more than average.
However, he's good against players with similar built.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lamar Odom vs Toni Kukoc

The point wasn't that Odom plays all NBA defense; it was that his D was much better than what Kukoc played. Kukoc was the better team player but it is not as if Odom is clueless out there regardless of what the Clipper cognocenti have to say. Yes, he dribbled the ball inbounds last December. However, you don't pass as well as he does as a forward, nor adapt to the triangle offense unless you possess some court awareness.

Am I calling him a B-Ball genius? No. But, again, he is far from the ODumb moniker that has been hung on him.

I also don't think Odom is all-world, the bee's knees, or anything like that. I just like him more than Kukoc.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: Lamar Odom vs Toni Kukoc

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Originally Posted by Wormser
The point wasn't that Odom plays all NBA defense; it was that his D was much better than what Kukoc played. Kukoc was the better team player but it is not as if Odom is clueless out there regardless of what the Clipper cognocenti have to say. Yes, he dribbled the ball inbounds last December.

Am I calling him a B-Ball genius? No. But, again, he is far from the ODumb moniker that has been hung on him.

That part was hilarious.


The bigger topic should be who is more effective in the triangle offense??
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: Lamar Odom vs Toni Kukoc

I have the clip from Inside The NBA where they made fun of Odom for that inbounds.



The look on Phil Jackson's face is hilarious.

"Whoops...that's not Vince!"



Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
That part was hilarious.


The bigger topic should be who is more effective in the triangle offense??
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:12 PM   #21
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Default Re: Lamar Odom vs Toni Kukoc

Yeah, I laughed my a** off when I saw that play. He had the flu or something that night (or at least that is what they were saying). Still, that is a great blooper.
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:25 PM   #22
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Default Re: Lamar Odom vs Toni Kukoc

out of curiosity, did we actually see toni's best years? the first time i saw him was in the 92 olympics, and i don't know how old he was then, but he was very highly thought of. his defense and understanding of the triangle improved as the years went by (according to jordan and pippen's accounts of him), but i don't think his offense changed much. anybody with a history of watching european ball know if he was actually peaked pre-nba like sabonis did?
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: Lamar Odom vs Toni Kukoc

I saw Toni playing on the Bucks back in 2005 when I went to a Magic game while I was in Orlando...

Does that count?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
out of curiosity, did we actually see toni's best years? the first time i saw him was in the 92 olympics, and i don't know how old he was then, but he was very highly thought of. his defense and understanding of the triangle improved as the years went by (according to jordan and pippen's accounts of him), but i don't think his offense changed much. anybody with a history of watching european ball know if he was actually peaked pre-nba like sabonis did?
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:08 PM   #24
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Default Re: Lamar Odom vs Toni Kukoc

Amazing how Toni Kukoc came into the league at 24 or 25 yet people act like he well past his prime.

Face it folks, the guy was nothing special. An adequate sixth man and little else.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:11 PM   #25
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Default Re: Lamar Odom vs Toni Kukoc

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Originally Posted by Da KO King
Amazing how Toni Kukoc came into the league at 24 or 25 yet people act like he well past his prime.

Face it folks, the guy was nothing special. An adequate sixth man and little else.
i think it was just me who asked whether he had hit his prime before he came to the league. if he was 24yrs / old, then i guess we saw the best of him.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:14 PM   #26
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Default Re: Lamar Odom vs Toni Kukoc

Bulls would've won .... well even more with Odom in place of Kukoc (if that's even possible). Odom would've been on the All-Star team with Chicago.

Odom is a far better defender and all-around player than Kukoc.

The Bulls supporting cast wasn't that great folks, it was basically an ABA squad outside of the main components.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:17 PM   #27
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Default Re: Lamar Odom vs Toni Kukoc

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
i think it was just me who asked whether he had hit his prime before he came to the league. if he was 24yrs / old, then i guess we saw the best of him.
I wasn't speaking about just you though. Nearly every time I get into a conversation about Kukoc it is implied the NBA missed majority of his prime.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:23 PM   #28
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Default Re: Lamar Odom vs Toni Kukoc

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Originally Posted by OneWay
sort of like Manu today but better IMO. Odom, while more talented just doesn't have that factor and Toni's edge in playmaking, intelligence and clutch ability is too much to overlook. Then add achivements to the equation and it's a no brainer but let's compare players here, not their achivements.

No offense to Toni Kukoc, Manu has surpassed Toni at every level he played, Euroleague, International competition, and NBA.
Toni had great BQ, So does Manu.

Real difference between the two is mental toughness and defense.
in the NBA, Toni actually were not mentally tough and had weak defense.
but, Manu is one of the mentally toughest players in this decade.
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