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Old 08-09-2007, 10:37 PM   #1
sunsfan1357
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Default Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

A Homo erectus skull was found within walking distance of Homo habilis by Meave Leakey (relative of Mary and Louis) that apparently proves that both species lived side by side instead of one evolving from the other. I'm not informed enough on this to really comment but I was interested in seeing the opinions of others on here who know what tehy're talking about. Is this is a victory for the anti-evolutionists or does it just show our family tree is more complicated than we thought?
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Old 08-09-2007, 11:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

adam and eve is a fairly tell
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Old 08-09-2007, 11:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsfan1357
A Homo erectus skull was found within walking distance of Homo habilis by Meave Leakey (relative of Mary and Louis) that apparently proves that both species lived side by side instead of one evolving from the other. I'm not informed enough on this to really comment but I was interested in seeing the opinions of others on here who know what tehy're talking about. Is this is a victory for the anti-evolutionists or does it just show our family tree is more complicated than we thought?

1: Just because they are in the same vacinity does not prove timeline convergance. Look how many cities are built on the ruins of ancient civilizations. Time is important in these matters, not location. They would have to be compared by radio carbon dating.

2: Even if they are of the same time period, it would only help cement some eveolutionists hypothesies. I for one believe at times through out history 2 versions(A+B, B+C, C+D, etc.) of our former selfs had to live side by side. The older version slowly fades into extinction as the new genetic traits become dominate in the gene pool. Its not like one kid is born as what we know as human form and the rest just disappeared.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:07 AM   #4
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

Evolution is a sham. Inherently flawed, as is radio carbon dating.
Radiocarbon ages less than 3,500 years old are probably accurate. However, before accepting any radiocarbon date, one should know how the technique works, its limitations, and its assumptions. One limitation is that the radiocarbon technique dates only material that was once part of an animal or plant, such as bones, flesh, or wood. It cannot date rocks directly. To understand the other capabilities and limitations of radiocarbon dating, we must understand how it works and consider the flood.

Most carbon atoms weigh 12 atomic mass units. However, roughly one in a trillion carbon atoms weighs 14 atomic units. This carbon is called carbon-14. It is also called radiocarbon because it is radioactive (but not dangerous). Half of it will decay in about 5,730 years to form nitrogen. Half of the remainder will decay in another 5,730 years, and so on.

Cosmic radiation striking the upper atmosphere converts about 21 pounds of nitrogen each year into radiocarbon (carbon-14). Most carbon-14 quickly combines with oxygen to form radioactive carbon dioxide, which then spreads throughout the atmosphere. Plants take in carbon dioxide, incorporating in their tissues both carbon-14 (unstable) and normal carbon-12 (stable) in the same proportion as they occur in the atmosphere. Carbon-14 then moves up the various food chains to enter animal tissue—again, in about the same ratio carbon-14 has with carbon-12 in the atmosphere.

When a living thing dies, its radiocarbon loss (decay) is no longer balanced by intake, so its radiocarbon steadily decreases with a half-life of 5,730 years. If we knew the amount of carbon-14 in an organism when it died, we could attempt to date the time of death. The key questions then are: “Has the atmospheric ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12 changed in the past, and if so, why and how much?” The assumption usually made, but rarely acknowledged, is that the ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12 in the atmosphere before the industrial revolution1 has always been the same—about one in a trillion. Actually, that ratio may have been quite different.

For example, a worldwide flood would uproot and bury preflood forests. Afterward, less carbon would be available to enter the atmosphere from decaying vegetation. With less carbon-12 to dilute the carbon-14 continually forming from nitrogen in the upper atmosphere, the ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12 in the atmosphere would increase. If the atmosphere’s ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12 has doubled since the flood and we did not know it, radiocarbon ages of things that lived soon after the flood would appear to be one half-life (or 5,730 years) older than their true ages. If that ratio quadrupled, organic remains would appear 11,460 (2 x 5,730) years older, etc. Therefore, a “radiocarbon year” would not correspond to an actual year.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:08 AM   #5
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

Radiocarbon dating of supposedly very ancient bones should provide valuable information. Why is such testing rare? Researchers naturally do not waste money on a technique that destroys their specimen and provides no specific age. Therefore, most researchers do not radiocarbon date any organic specimen they think is older than 100,000 years, even if it still contains carbon. All carbon-14 that was once in anything older than 100,000 radiocarbon years would have decayed; its age could not be determined. However, if a bone an evolutionist thinks is a million years old contains any detectable carbon-14, the bone is probably less than 100,000 radiocarbon years.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

Very precise measurements now show that most fossils—regardless of presumed “geologic age”—have roughly the same ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12. (This includes fossil fuels: coal, oil, and methane.) Therefore, this former life must have been living at about the same time—less than 100,000 years ago. Because almost all fossils are preserved in water deposited sediments, all this former life was probably buried in a fairly recent, gigantic flood.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-train
Radiocarbon dating of supposedly very ancient bones should provide valuable information. Why is such testing rare? Researchers naturally do not waste money on a technique that destroys their specimen and provides no specific age. Therefore, most researchers do not radiocarbon date any organic specimen they think is older than 100,000 years, even if it still contains carbon. All carbon-14 that was once in anything older than 100,000 radiocarbon years would have decayed; its age could not be determined. However, if a bone an evolutionist thinks is a million years old contains any detectable carbon-14, the bone is probably less than 100,000 radiocarbon years.
So thats why its the accepted form of dating by the world scientific community. To think, science makes no sense.
And I take take it your a creationists? I would love nothing more than to stay up rip countless holes through your theories, but I must retire for the night. At least evolution can answer more questions than it creates. Also shows why there are multiple forms of specie. A lot more reasonable than God wanting to play house.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:23 AM   #8
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

Wait are we still evolving?
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

You keep mentioning a great recent geological flood to destroy the usse of carbon dating. To devalue it, the entire world would have to of been flooded. Please, tell us all, what is the PROOF of such a flood.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:26 AM   #10
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurch67
You keep mentioning a great recent geological flood to destroy the usse of carbon dating. To devalue it, the entire world would have to of been flooded. Please, tell us all, what is the PROOF of such a flood.
The grand canyon has layers that suggest a massive flood.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:33 AM   #11
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannonball
Wait are we still evolving?
Yes. Over generations certain characteristics become recessive or dominate. Thats why our generation is taller on average than say our great grandfather's. Change is subtle thoughout time with out major enviromental input. An iceage for example would turn on genetic triggers resulting in more body hair. A change in over all oxygen levels in the atmosphere would change lung capacity. Our world's climate has been the same relatively for thousands of years, so major rapid (in matter of a couple generations) changes haven't been neccessary. But slowly but surely, we are still evolving.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:38 AM   #12
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannonball
The grand canyon has layers that suggest a massive flood.
But how recent? How local? Where else has evidence to co-inside with it?
Until a better unit of measure is invented (which I doubt will ever happen) carbon dating is what we have to go by.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:40 AM   #13
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurch67
Yes. Over generations certain characteristics become recessive or dominate. Thats why our generation is taller on average than say our great grandfather's. Change is subtle thoughout time with out major enviromental input. An iceage for example would turn on genetic triggers resulting in more body hair. A change in over all oxygen levels in the atmosphere would change lung capacity. Our world's climate has been the same relatively for thousands of years, so major rapid (in matter of a couple generations) changes haven't been neccessary. But slowly but surely, we are still evolving.
You have evolution and adaptation confused. look it up.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:44 AM   #14
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

Am I the only one who doesn't care?

The proof of species evolving or not doesn't prove anything meaningful to me.

Some of you need to step back and think about this. The major one is people thinking evolution = no God and vice versa, which is the dumbest belief ever.

I can't think of any other reason one should care.

This is from a philosophical point of view of course. Studying evolution because your want to learn more about species or for the basic science of it all is fine.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:55 AM   #15
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Default Re: Wrench thrown in evolution theory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurch67
You keep mentioning a great recent geological flood to destroy the usse of carbon dating. To devalue it, the entire world would have to of been flooded. Please, tell us all, what is the PROOF of such a flood.
Its called the Hydroplate theory.
New evidence shows that the earth has experienced a devastating, worldwide flood, whose waters violently burst forth from under the earth’s crust. Standard “textbook” explanations for many of earth’s major features are scientifically flawed. It can now be explained, using well-understood phenomena, how this cataclysmic event rapidly formed so many features. These and other mysteries, listed below, are best explained by an earthshaking event, far more catastrophic than almost anyone has imagined.

The Grand Canyon
Mid-Oceanic Ridge
Continental Shelves and Slopes
Ocean Trenches
Earthquakes
Magnetic Variations on the Ocean Floor
Submarine Canyons
Coal and Oil
Methane Hydrates
Ice Age
Frozen Mammoths
Major Mountain Ranges
Overthrusts
Volcanoes and Lava
Geothermal Heat
Strata and Layered Fossils )
Limestone
Metamorphic Rock
Plateaus
Salt Domes
Jigsaw Fit of the Continents
Changing Axis Tilt
Comets
Asteroids and Meteoroids
Each is a consequence of a sudden and unrepeatable event—a global flood whose waters erupted from interconnected, worldwide subterranean chambers with an energy release exceeding the explosion of 30 trillion hydrogen bombs.

Last edited by G-train : 08-10-2007 at 12:57 AM.
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