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Old 08-14-2007, 05:52 PM   #61
RoseCity07
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

Malone was a better player he just ran into Jordan. Duncan winning a championship in a lock out season and a match ups against Verajao doesn't really seem all that hard. Who did he win against the other two in the finals?
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Old 08-14-2007, 05:57 PM   #62
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseCity07
Malone was a better player he just ran into Jordan. Duncan winning a championship in a lock out season and a match ups against Verajao doesn't really seem all that hard. Who did he win against the other two in the finals?

malone didnt guard or was being guarded by jordan give me a break. why do you people keep saying he ran into jordan? you can say he ran into pippen who was all team defense or rodman who was all team defense (players that actually guarded him or he guarded) you say malone ran into jordan but you say duncan played against verajao? why not lebron?
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Old 08-14-2007, 06:15 PM   #63
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

So lets look at the monster teams that Malone lost to - because Td has faced nothing but cream-puffs (and two defending champs) on his way to 4 titles.

2003 -- lost to Sacramento, 4-1, first round

2002 -- lost to Sacramento, 3-1, first round

2001 -- lost to Dallas, 3-2, first round

-wha wa what?!? 3 first round eliminations? That 2001 Dall team wasn't even that good.

2000 -- defeated Seattle, 3-2, first round
lost to Portland, 4-1, conference semifinals

1999 -- defeated Sacramento, 3-2, first round
lost to Portland, 4-2, conference semifinals

-well we know how Bulls-esque that Port team was. Obviously, if not for that team Malone would've won his title this year...but wait - didn't SA ebat that very same Port team in '99?

1998 -- defeated Houston, 3-2, first round
defeated San Antonio, 4-1, conference semifinals
defeated LA Lakers, 4-0, conference finals
lost to Chicago, 4-2, NBA Finals

1997 -- defeated LA Clippers, 3-0, first round
defeated LA Lakers, 4-1, conference semifinals
defeated Houston, 4-2, conference finals
lost to Chicago, 4-2, NBA Finals

give him the MJ excuse for those 2.

1996 -- defeated Portland, 3-2, first round
defeated San Antonio, 4-2, conference semifinals
lost to Seattle, 4-3, conference finals

-A fine Seattle team - better than the 2005 Pistons? 2003 Lakers? Probably not.

1995 -- lost to Houston, 3-2, first round

This is inexcusebale. Yeah, they won the title, but this is Malone's prime. Tim Duncan does not lose this series. No chance.

1994 -- defeated San Antonio, 3-1, first round
defeated Denver, 4-3, conference semifinals
lost to Houston, 4-1, conference finals

Excuseable-ish - so we can say - had it not been for MJ or Hakeem, Malone would've had ? titles.

1993 -- lost to Seattle, 3-2, first round

This is inexcusebale. This Seattle team wasn't even THAT good. Middle of Prime.

Duncan's 4th title - see below, Malone through the first 9 years has been out of the 2nd round once.

1992 -- defeated LA Clippers, 3-2, first round
defeated Seattle, 4-1, conference semifinals
lost to Portland, 4-2, conference finals

1991 -- defeated Phoenix, 3-1, first round
lost to Portland, 4-1, conference semifinals

So now is - if it weren't for MJ, Hakeem, or Drexler, Malone would've had how many titles?

Duncan has 3 now.

1990 -- lost to Phoenix, 3-2, first round

Was this even that good a team?

1989 -- lost to Golden State, 3-0, first round

By this point in Timmy's career, he had 2 titles, Malone is getting swept by Run TMC.

1988 -- defeated Portland, 3-1, first round
lost to LA Lakers, 4-3, conference semifinals

Hey, at least it was a good Lakers team.

1987 -- lost to Golden State, 3-2, first round

Sad

1986 -- lost to Dallas, 3-1, first round

Nice Dallas team, but come on

1985 -- defeated Houston, 3-2, first round
lost to Denver, 4-1, conference semifinals

Who was even on that Dallas team. So now its, if it werent' for MJ, Hakeem, Run-TMC, Drexler, or Alex English, Malone would've had ---- titles?

BTW - Duncan had a title by this point in his career

1984 -- defeated Denver, 3-2, first round
lost to Phoenix, 4-2, conference semifinals


---so over, 19 years in Utah as the best pf ever, he made it out of the 2nd round 5 times. 5! Duncan has 4 titles.

Even if we count his trip as a tag-a-long with the Lakers, that's 6 trips out of the 2nd - to Duncans 4 titles in half as much time.

Tell me how its all MJ keeping Malone down.
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Old 08-14-2007, 06:30 PM   #64
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

compare Duncan:

1997-98 (56-26) - Lost Conference Semifinals to Utah

2nd round loss to finals-bound Utah in his rookie year

1998-99 (37-13) - Won NBA Finals over New York

1999-00 (53-29) - Lost First Round to Phoenix

Duncan was hurt.

2000-01 (58-24) - Lost Conference Finals to LA Lakers
Made it to the WCF and lost ot the champs

2001-02 (58-24) - Lost Conference Semifinals to LA Lakers
lost to the champs

2002-03 (60-22) - Won NBA Finals over New Jersey
beat the reigning champs and won a title

2003-04 (57-25) - Lost Conference Semifinals to LA Lakers
tough loss to a team with 4 HOF'ers - moderately better than Run TMC.

2004-05 (59-23) - Won NBA Finals over Detroit
beat reigning champs, again

2005-06 (63-19) - Lost Conference Semifinals to Dallas
Lost to the team that went to the Finals

2006-07 (58-24) - Won NBA Finals over Cleveland
4th title.

So - in 9 years out of the 2nd round already 5 times, to the finals 4 times, with 4 titles and only lost in the first round once. In the same opening 9 years, malone lost in the first round 5 times, and made it out of the 2nd round once.

Its all MJ keeping Malone down.
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Old 08-14-2007, 06:32 PM   #65
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

If you don't wanna be a man, there's only one thing you can be. And that's a woman. And if that's what you wanna be, give Karl Malone a call. 'Cause Karl Malone loves the ladies. Until next time, this here Karl Malone.
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Old 08-14-2007, 06:56 PM   #66
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Prime
If you don't wanna be a man, there's only one thing you can be. And that's a woman. And if that's what you wanna be, give Karl Malone a call. 'Cause Karl Malone loves the ladies. Until next time, this here Karl Malone.
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Old 08-14-2007, 07:46 PM   #67
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

John Starks!
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Old 08-14-2007, 07:55 PM   #68
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseCity07
Malone was a better player he just ran into Jordan.

A tired excuse used to defend Malone, and so people don't have to go any further or look and deeper into the matter. "Malone faced Jordan. 'Nuff said." But the FACTS are this:

In Game 1 of the 1997 NBA Finals against the Chicago Bulls, Malone, the regular season MVP, was fouled with 9.2 seconds left with the game tied at 82-82 and went to the line with a chance to put the Jazz ahead. He missed both free throws. (Scottie Pippen told Malone that “The Mailman doesn’t deliver on Sundays.”) Jordan, who finished second to Malone in the MVP voting, proceeded to hit a 21-footer at the buzzer for the 84-82 win. In Game 2, Malone had 20 points on 6-of-20 shooting (30 percent), and the Bulls won 97-85. In Game 5, which Utah lost 90-88, Malone had 19 points on 7-of-17 shooting (41.2 percent) and seven rebounds. In Game 6, Malone had only 21 points and seven rebounds, and shot 7 of 15 from the free throw line (46.7 percent) and the Bulls won 90-86 to finish the Jazz. For the series, Malone shot only 44.3 percent from the field, 60.3 percent from the free throw line and averaged 23.8 points per game, far from his regular-season numbers of 27.4 points per game on 55.0 percent shooting from the floor and 75.5 percent from the line. In Utah’s 4 losses in the ’97 Finals, Malone’s numbers were 20.8 points on 40.5 percent shooting (30/74), and 54.8 percent from the line (23/42). In their two wins, his numbers were 30 points on 50 percent shooting (24/48) and 75 percent from the line (12/16). That had nothing to do with Malone facing Jordan in the Finals. It's plain to see that Malone playing well = the Jazz winning. Malone not playing well = the Jazz losing. I'll leave it to everyone to decide what happened more often.

In Game 1 of the ’98 Finals against the Bulls, Malone had 21 points on 9-of-25 shooting (36 percent), though Utah won 88-85 in overtime despite him, thanks to Stockton, who had 24 points on 9-of-12 shooting, including 7 of Utah’s 9 points in overtime, the points that put them up for good, 84-82, and a runner with 9 seconds left and two free throws with 3 seconds left to ice it. In Game 2, Malone had 16 points on 5-of-16 shooting (31.3 percent), and Chicago won 93-88. In Game 6, Malone had the ball with Utah leading 86-85 with 22.5 seconds left and turned the ball over, getting stripped by Jordan who hit the game-winning jumper over Byron Russell.

Malone didn't not win titles because he faced Jordan, he didn't win titles because he didn't deliver when the spotlight was the brightest. Maybe if he'd stepped up in the postseason or even given the same regular season performance in the Finals, the Jazz would actually have won something. I hold Barkley in a more favorable light in that regard.

Barkley, in the season he won the NBA MVP award in 1992-93, hit a 20-footer over David Robinson with 1.8 seconds left to give the Suns a 102-100 win in Game 6 of the ’93 Western Conference semifinals against the Spurs to advance them to the Western Conference Finals for the first time since 1990 (he had 28 points [14 in the fourth quarter], 21 rebounds and four steals), had 44 points and 24 boards in Game 7 of the Western Conference Finals against the Seattle SuperSonics to lead the Suns to a 123-110 Game 7 win to propel them into the Finals, then averaged 27.3 points, 13 rebounds and 5.7 assists in the Finals against the Bulls. The Suns' failure to win the title was not due to Barkley failing to step up, which can't be said for Malone. If your star player--your MVP--doesn't step up in the big games, you won't win.

Period.

And as another poster said on this very subject on another basketball board:

Quote:
Malone Career
Regular Season
ts% - 0.577
efg% - 0.518
Post Season
Ts% - .0526
efg% - 0.463

Reg Season 97
efg% - 0.550
ts% - 0.600
Playoffs 97
efg% - 0.436
ts% - 0.501

Regular Season 98
efg% - 0.531
ts% - 0.597
Playoffs
efg% - 0.471
ts% - 0.534

Every playoff run were the jazz got out of the first round

Regular Season 88
efg% - 0.520
ts% - 0.568
Playoffs
efg% - 0.482
ts% - 0.537

Regular Season 91
efg% - 0.528
ts% - 0.596
Playoffs
efg% - 0.455
ts% - 0.536

Regular Season 92
efg% - 0.527
ts% - 0.599
Playoffs
efg% - 0.521
ts% - 0.618

Malone was a monster in the 92 playoffs. Great Job

Regular Season 94
efg% - 0.500
ts% - 0.550
Playoffs
efg% - 0.467
ts% - 0.531

Regular Season 96
efg% - 0.524
ts% - 0.575
Playoffs
efg% - 0.469
ts% - 0.498

Regular Season 99
efg% - 0.493
ts% - 0.577
Playoffs
efg% - 0.417
ts% - 0.493

Regular Season 00
efg% - 0.510
ts% - 0.582
Playoffs
efg% - 0.520
ts% - 0.584

There is a good reason why people think Malone didn't produce in the post season. In the Karl Malone era, they made it out the first round 9 times, in 7 of those years Malone experienced dramatic drops in efficiency. He didn't maintain his regular season play on offense. This is damming for a player whose claim to greatness was that he was a high volume/high efficiency offensive player. In the post-season his efficiency plummeted, and that is why many posters, myself included, don't think as highly of him as his regular season numbers would dictate.

[...]

When you consistently produce in the playoffs, like a Jordan/Hakeem/Duncan, fans will give you a break for a less than excellent playoff series. After all no one can produce greatly all the time. But when your numbers continually go down, in the area were you make your claim for greatness, like Malone did, fans will give you a hard time, and you won't be viewed as highly as your regular season performances would dictate. And deservedly so.

That BULLS guy said Malone was the best "because his offensive game was second to none," yet that offensive game continually took a nose dive when it actually meant something. He compiled nice regular season numbers for a long time which resulted in some impressive career numbers, but gagged in the true season when the pressure was on. FACT

Those are the FACTS. I've presented the evidence. Anyone who wishes to dispute the objective FACTS or bury their head in the sand and IGNORE them is nothing but a Malone apologist who refuses to face reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiemonster
Malone is a loser and choke artist.
Duncan is a winner.

Duncan > Malone
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:10 PM   #69
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

I really enjoyed that post. It was pure ass-whupin' to those Malone fans.
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:27 PM   #70
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

LOL the regul8r and john starks pretty much closed this thread.
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:00 PM   #71
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by redhonda76
HAHAHAHHAH This shows you how much you know. Idiot poster are just idiots in real life.



Never heard of the Sky Hook? lol You dont know about Kareem , don't you.



I have declare BULLS to be the dumbest poster in ISH.


AMEN!!!
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:15 PM   #72
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

Duncan>Malone blah blah blah.... greatest pf CAREER ever. I just wanted to come in here and give my boy Charles some love as I think in his prime he is the greatest pf ever, a lot of that prime was wasted in Philly. No he didn't have the best career, and his prime was cut short due to back injuries and just not staying in shape, but prime Barkley was an absolute beast. A beast that could score on smaller guys from the perimeter or bang with the bigs in teh post
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:48 PM   #73
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2Gezee
Duncan>Malone blah blah blah.... greatest pf CAREER ever. I just wanted to come in here and give my boy Charles some love as I think in his prime he is the greatest pf ever, a lot of that prime was wasted in Philly. No he didn't have the best career, and his prime was cut short due to back injuries and just not staying in shape, but prime Barkley was an absolute beast. A beast that could score on smaller guys from the perimeter or bang with the bigs in teh post

i agree.
malones 2nd maybe cuz i just hate duncan
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:50 PM   #74
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by SsKSpurs21
LOL the regul8r and john starks pretty much closed this thread.


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Old 08-14-2007, 10:42 PM   #75
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Default Re: GOAT PF : Duncan or K Malone



By the way, Bulls is a troll, so its best just to just ignore him
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