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Old 08-17-2007, 11:01 PM   #31
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Default Re: Federal ID plan raises privacy concerns (should raise red flags in people's nogons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by YAWN
These threads always remind me of this:



If you parse the writings of Bin Laden, you see that all their gripes are rooted in their Islamic beliefs. Yes, there's the nonsense about Palestine, but their beliefs in the rights of "Palestinians" are rooted in the Islamic belief that all Hebrew prophets were really Muslims, and therefore if God promised the Hebrews Israel, Muslims are the rightful heirs to the land. Yes, there is the nonsense about Iraq, ignoring that, despite their contention that our sanctions killed a million Iraqis, the Oil for Food program was provided to them to prevent such a calamity and Saddam robbed that money to pay off world leaders to weaken the sanctions regime, not to mention constructing his many lavish palaces.

Those who say they don't hate our freedoms would do well to read OBL's writings, for he outlines Muslim hatred for gambling, consumption of alcohol, SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, usury, etc. etc. etc...

Anyone who thinks this is about our foreign policy is a useful idiot. And since when do we construct a foreign policy around appeasing the delicate sensibilities of murderous savages?
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:02 PM   #32
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Default Re: Federal ID plan raises privacy concerns (should raise red flags in people's nogons)

First and foremost, the Holy Land is not Muslims' Holy Land. Palestine was only Muslim in the first place because the second Caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab brutally conquered it in the 7th century. Jews were expelled from Jerusalem, while Christians - Jerusalem being up until then controlled by the Byzantines - were allowed to stay so long as they submitted to Islamic law and payed the jizyah.

But going even further back, since the destruction of the Second Jewish Commonwealth by the Roman Empire, Palestine has never been it's own sovereign nation-state. Further, it is essential to understand where the word Palestine comes from. The name Palestine refers to a region of the eastern Mediterranean coast from the sea to the Jordan valley and from the southern Negev desert to the Lake Galilee region to the north. Palestine derives from the Hebrew word "Plesheth", a word that appears often in the Bible and translates into English as "Philistine". Plesheth was a general term meaning rolling or migratory, and referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites; they originated from Asia Minor and Greece. They did not speak Arabic. They have no connection - neither ethnic nor linguistic nor historical - to Arabia or the Arabs.

The second major Jewish revolt against Rome, Bar Kochva, was put down in AD 135 by the Emperor Hadrian who, as part of his retribution against the Jews, blotted out the name Judea and renamed it "Provincia Syria Palaestina". This was the first use of a derivative of the word Pleseth in an administrative context. For 65 years prior to this, the Romans laid waste to the land, killing as many as 600,000 Jews and carrying off at least half that many in slavery. Yet even in the wake of this Diaspora, a few thousand Jews somehow remained in the region, and their descendants still populate Israel to this day. "Provincia Syria Palaestina" was later shortened to Palaestina, from which the modern, anglicized "Palestine" is derived. Palestine has never been a sovereign nation-state, nor is there a Palestinian race, ethnic group, or nationality; it is a non-political, geographical region of land much like the Great Plains of the United States, or the Amazon River Basin.

The root causes of Zionism in action were Russian persecution of Jews and the feeling that Jews lacked the prerequisite national equality that would accord them the respect normal dealings between peoples were founded on. Even after the brutality of the Romans, through the Muslim conquest under Umar ibn al-Khattab, through the Crusades, and under Turkish-Ottoman rule, a nominal Jewish presence was maintained in Palestine. They had always been there, unlike the Romans who dispersed many of them and were in turn expelled by the Arabs, who were expelled by the Turks, who were expelled by the Crusaders, who were in turn expelled by the Turks, who were expelled by the Allied Powers in the wake of WWI. If the question of Palestine is that of "stolen land", then the question begs to be asked: what is the statute of limitations for this supposed crime? To the ****** of Israel, whatever their real hatred is based on, this limitation seems fixed on the conception of Zionism, and past crimes against the Jews are ignored or dismissed. It never enters into the ******' minds that Zionism is a natural occurance based on the history of the land, a history Muslims injected themselves into by brutal conquest and persecution.


Moving beyond my own writings into a time period I have yet to read about, I cite a recent writing by Joe Puder:
On November 29, 1947 the U.N. voted on partition for Palestine (UN Resolution 181). By a majority of 33 votes to 13, it decided to create a Jewish and Arab state in Palestine. The Jews, eager to absorb hundreds of thousands of Holocaust survivors suffering in Displaced Persons Camps throughout Germany and Cyprus, welcomed the partition, albeit, as a shrunken Jewish Homeland.
The 1917 Balfour Declaration issued by Great Britain sought to create a homeland for the Jews in their ancestral home of Palestine. Approximately 77% of the land promised to the Jews in the Balfour Declaration was however sheared off to create the Emirate of Trans-Jordan under British guidance in 1922, and no Jews have been allowed to live there since.
The land allocated to the Jewish State by the U.N. Partition Plan of 1947 was barely contiguous and included the Coastal Plain, Eastern Galilee in the North (not contiguous of the rest of the state), and the central Negev in the South without the city of Beersheba. The historical areas of Judea and Samaria were to be part of the Arab state including the Western Galilee, and Gaza. Jerusalem and Bethlehem were to be administered by an international trusteeship.
An earlier partition plan had been proposed on July 7, 1937. Britain’s Peel Commission had issued its Report in London, recognizing that the conflict in Palestine between the Arabs and Jews was insoluble and recommended the partition of Palestine into two independent sovereign states. There was no mention in it of Palestinians or the “Palestinian People.” The Commission was ostensibly established in response to Arab riots that had broken out in 1936, which were instigated by the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Hussaini – an ally of Adolph Hitler. The Arab rejection of the Peel Commission was a prelude to their rejection of the U.N. partition.
The Arab (the word Palestinian at that time only referred to Jews - Arabs were simply called Arabs, whose main objective was to be part of an Arab nation stretching from North Africa to the Persian Gulf) attitude was “all or nothing at all” - namely no sovereign Jewish presence anywhere in the Arab Middle East. With each rejection, the size of the Arab “Palestinian” state shrunk. In 1937, the Arabs would have controlled 90% of Mandatory Palestine (77% became Jordan, and 13% would have been added to satisfy Arab demands) allocating only 10% to the Jews. In 1947, the percentages were reversed in favor of the Jews. As a result of the Arab’s war to annihilate the newborn Jewish State in 1948, Jordan and Egypt took the territory allocated to become an Arab-Palestinian state, and the Palestinians became refugees.
There is no such thing as a "Palestinian" and as such, they have no claim to that land.
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:10 PM   #33
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Default Re: Federal ID plan raises privacy concerns (should raise red flags in people's nogons)

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Originally Posted by YAWN
youre starting to sound like georgie bush with that


Its sad that people like you don't get Iraq. That's why we're going to fail there...and that's why we're going to be drug into a World War with Islamists whose history doesn't stem from Saudi Arabia, "Palestine" or any other country that liberals like to scream about us mingling in.

No...this movement comes from Egypt.

I hear all these people telling us why they hate us...and yet none of these people even know who Sayyid Qutb is.

If you want to know why "they" hate us, why do you pseudo intellectuals always run to some egocentric, white, western psychologist...instead of just going to the horse's mouth.

Sayyid Qutb..."Milestones"...its all that needs to be known.
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:12 PM   #34
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Default Re: Federal ID plan raises privacy concerns (should raise red flags in people's nogons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by YAWN
These threads always remind me of this:



They hate Israel because of us, not the other way around.

See, here's what you folks don't get. There was another event in the 20th century that had a much more profound impact on the Middle East mindset than a bunch of Jews re-immigrating to their biblical homeland. That event would be WWI and the conquest of the Ottomans. First time the Islamic empire had been invaded and defeated since the first crusade, or perhaps the Reconquista. (If you want to consider Al-Andalus a native piece of the Islamic empire.)

Ever heard of Salafi? You know, that Islamic sect of belief that hypothesizes that the embaressment and shame of the Islamic community beginning at the Ottoman's defeat has to do with the turning away from Allah, traditional Islamic law and rule, and the general secularism of the Ottomans (and the Islamic world).

Ever read Qutb? Ever heard of the concept of jahiliyya? Are you familiar with the main split between Nasser and the Muslim Brotherhood, right on the heels of the MB helping Nasser take over Egypt?

None of that had to do with Israel.

What you novices don't get, is that the plight of the "palestinians" is merely a symptom of the strife and problems plaguing the Islamic world, not the root.

Islamists stem from Salafi sects of Islam, which far predate the state of Israel. Qutb was a visitor to the US in the 50s, long before the US supported Israel. And Qutb said nothing of the Palestinians, nor did Zawahiri when he was leading Al-Jihad. You do know what Al-Jihad is, right?

And Bin Laden only mentioned the "palestinians" as a sideshow to what his true and much more abundantly previously stated reasons are.

Try to keep up, I am talking about why the Islamists hate the US. It just doesn't have anything to do with Israel, despite what your professor might have told you in Islamic propaganda 101.

Last edited by Heilige : 08-17-2007 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:39 PM   #35
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Default Re: Federal ID plan raises privacy concerns (should raise red flags in people's nogon

John Howard wants to do the same in Australia. The little George Bush asslicker that he is. Reminds me of 1984. Watch out for Big Brother and the Thought Police.
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