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Old 08-23-2007, 06:17 PM   #1
apeman222
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Default lal/mil deal?

saw this on another board....i know its not an actual deal....but i just wanted to hear what bucks fans had to say about this...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53552
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Old 08-24-2007, 03:40 PM   #2
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

Quote:
Kwame, Farmar, Evans, 1st rounder for Yi and Bobby Simmons
Not a Bucks fan, but IMO they get raped something fierce in that "deal". None of the guys you get back are even solid rotation players, they are all borderline NBA players who would be sitting at the end of any good teams bench. Essentially you're giving up Yi to dump Simmons contract for some expirers with almost no talent at all coming back (Farmar and a weak future 1st). My guess is you could do a lot better, even if you didn't want to take any long term salary back. #6 picks don't get traded before their 1st season for trash, and young teams with very few contracts on the books don't usually give up one of their top young prospects just to dump an overpaid but productive-when-healthy player. Simmons is better than anyone they are getting back, so they'd have to be pretty desperate to get rid of him to be willing to include the #6 overall pick, which doesn't make sense since they've had plenty of cap flexibility recently and not landed anything with it (Simmons himself being their big prize)

Last edited by Manphibian420 : 08-26-2007 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 08-25-2007, 07:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

Good post manphibian.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:55 AM   #4
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

thats crazy... an over-paid player... a D-Leaguer... and a filler for a talented big man and a former MIP???!!!
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Old 08-26-2007, 01:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wally_world
thats crazy... an over-paid player... a D-Leaguer... and a filler for a talented big man and a former MIP???!!!

Actually..
It would be...

Farmar: Potential Solid Point
Kwame: A strong defencive player, and a big expiring contract
Evans: A player that would be more able in a different system (where he would actually be getting playing time)

For:
Yi who is holding the Bucks hostage by holding out... and not to mention a player that is just as unproven, as all the youthful player mentioned above...

And...

Bobby Simmons: A player who has no buisness getting so much money.. just because he showed improvement with the clips and possible future potential.

His contract of the Bucks' books, would be a major relief and a solid dumpage of a median high paid player.

Not only could they dump Simmons that would bring relief but also gain even more monetary relief with Kwame..

Not the best of deals, but not as horrid as you may be attempting to state...

Last edited by adamcz : 08-26-2007 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:54 AM   #6
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeN
Actually..
It would be...

Farmar: Potential Solid Point
Kwame: A strong defencive player, and a big expiring contract
Evans: A player that would be more able in a different system (where he would actually be getting playing time)

For:
Yi who is holding the Bucks hostage by holding out... and not to mention a player that is just as unproven, as all the youthful player mentioned above...

And...

Bobby Simmons: A player who has no buisness getting so much money.. just because he showed improvement with the clips and possible future potential.

His contract of the Bucks' books, would be a major relief and a solid dumpage of a median high paid player.

Not only could they dump Simmons that would bring relief but also gain even more monetary relief with Kwame..

Not the best of deals, but not as horrid as you may be attempting to state...
I edited your post to get rid of the five blank lines you inserted between each sentence. Your descriptions of the players involved borders on dishonesty - you'd make a good used car salesman. Farmar is a potential backup pg some day - which also means that he might not make a real backup pg some day. PG really isn't a Bucks team need. Evans is a scrub, period. Yi is the #6 pick, and every team in the NBA values him more highly than Farmer and co. Get out of here with your "they're all equally unproven" garbage.

This trade is just Laker homer nonsense. It's not a real rumor, just fiction by some hopeful Lakers fans. Beyond horrible for the Bucks.
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Old 08-26-2007, 01:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

Over in the Lakers forum we are wondering what Simmons' b-ball IQ is like? Smart? not? average? In any trade the Lakers make it is particularly important because new players have to pick up the triangle. If the guy is making big dollars (like Simmons), then you would want him to pick it up fast.
Thoughts?
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

Well before I answer, I just want to say again that this trade is bogus, and is not an option whatsoever.

But to answer your question, Simmons has a high IQ. He's just a solid overall player who's not great at anything, but not bad at anything either. He can shoot ok, can pass ok, can rebound ok, can D ok, rotates the ball well, can post up a little.

That's the good news - the bad news is that nobody knows if he'll come back healthy this year.
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
Well before I answer, I just want to say again that this trade is bogus, and is not an option whatsoever.

But to answer your question, Simmons has a high IQ. He's just a solid overall player who's not great at anything, but not bad at anything either. He can shoot ok, can pass ok, can rebound ok, can D ok, rotates the ball well, can post up a little.

That's the good news - the bad news is that nobody knows if he'll come back healthy this year.

thanks for the input.
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:21 AM   #10
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
This trade is just Laker homer nonsense. It's not a real rumor, just fiction by some hopeful Lakers fans. Beyond horrible for the Bucks.

As a Laker fan, I agree with you on the most important point: NEVER do such a trade.
It doesn't make any sense for any of the 2 teams and it will prevent them to make other, meaningful trades.
As a minor note, I don't agree with the Bucks being raped by this trade in value.
IMO the Bucks hve raped themselves by selecting Yi instead of other really interesting talents that were available at the 6th spot.
Now they are taking the risk to lose this pick for nothing, and even in case Yi decides to play for them it has to be seen if he can really contribute or not.
Simmons is one of the 100000 SF in the league, I think he's really not one of the best, say, 20-25 SF, is now injured and is one of the most paid.
Farmar is not really a stud, but he's one of the few really floor generals in the NBA, even if he will never be a spectacular PG. Kwame is one of the best post defender in the league and with an appealing expiring contract. Evans is money from any NBA bench.
All in all, the talent level is better in the Bucks part (considering Yi potential) but the contractual leverage is all in LA favor (one big expirer, 2 really cheap contracts).
To me the trade do not make sense for any team, but is not loopsided at all.
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:15 AM   #11
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark
To me the trade do not make sense for any team, but is not loopsided at all.
The #5 pick went for Ray Allen. Marion was offered for #6 but turned down. #9 went for Jason Richardson.

Why don't you think for a minute about what Yi is really worth. I'll give you a hint - it isn't Kwame Brown.
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Old 08-28-2007, 09:25 AM   #12
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
The #5 pick went for Ray Allen. Marion was offered for #6 but turned down. #9 went for Jason Richardson.

Why don't you think for a minute about what Yi is really worth. I'll give you a hint - it isn't Kwame Brown.

This is nonsense.
I say Yi was a bad pick, and you say that he isn't because the picks before and after were traded for good players. That's true but that has nothing to do with Yi value.
Take your example: Kwame was a #1 pick but he's worth very little, aside his expiring contract.
Anyway, as time will tell, you will realize how bad a pick Yi was, and how you should trade him ASAP to gain, at least, something.

Last edited by Shark : 08-28-2007 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 08-28-2007, 12:11 PM   #13
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Cool Re: lal/mil deal?

Quote:
They too have a crisis first-round draft pick Yi Jianlian refusing to sign with the team. The Lakers have been linked to Yi as one of six rumored preferred destinations for the Chinese forward: Chicago Bulls, New York Knicks, Toronto Raptors, Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Clippers and Lakers.


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Old 08-28-2007, 03:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
The #5 pick went for Ray Allen. Marion was offered for #6 but turned down. #9 went for Jason Richardson.

Why don't you think for a minute about what Yi is really worth. I'll give you a hint - it isn't Kwame Brown.

At this point, its not a matter of what Yi is worth. Its a matter of what the Bucks can get for him. Lets face it, he still hasn't signed a contract with the Bucks and chances are, the Bucks may lose him and get nothing in return while wasting a 6th overall pick on him. When it comes down to it, Harris may have to take any attractive offer and noone should be willing to bail him out from his act of stupidity. Though I wouldn't say Kwame Brown is an attractive offer, from a business sense, this would put the Bucks well under the cap next year and give them tons of flexibility. At the same time, I'm sure they can get more for Yi, but there are only a handful of teams that Yi would play for. The LA teams, NY, Golden State, and maybe Houston with Yao being there so Harris' choices are extremely limited. If I was Harris, I'd take anything worth taking at this point. The Clippers will be a bottom dweller this season and will most likely get a lottery pick. I'd offer them Yi for Ross and a future top 3 protected pick. The Clips are going to be without Brand for most of the season and next year, Elton will have an option so this would be good insurance if he bolts.
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Old 08-28-2007, 09:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: lal/mil deal?

Quote:
This is nonsense.
I say Yi was a bad pick, and you say that he isn't because the picks before and after were traded for good players. That's true but that has nothing to do with Yi value.
Take your example: Kwame was a #1 pick but he's worth very little, aside his expiring contract.
Anyway, as time will tell, you will realize how bad a pick Yi was, and how you should trade him ASAP to gain, at least, something.
This is nonsense. Kwame is worth nothing now, but a couple months after he was drafted he was still worth quite a bit. Would have taken a TON for Jordan to dump him, with how much he was invested in him. Of course after seeing him on the court for a few years his value plummeted... and the Wiz still got Caron Butler in exchange for him, which is 100x the player anyone the Bucks would be getting in this "deal".

Quote:
At this point, its not a matter of what Yi is worth. Its a matter of what the Bucks can get for him. Lets face it, he still hasn't signed a contract with the Bucks and chances are, the Bucks may lose him and get nothing in return while wasting a 6th overall pick on him. When it comes down to it, Harris may have to take any attractive offer and noone should be willing to bail him out from his act of stupidity.
They would not lose him if they don't sign him. He would have to sit out of pro basketball for an entire year (not just the NBA, all pro leagues) in order for the Bucks to lose his rights, and that's not going to happen. Yi wants to play somewhere else, but if he isn't traded he will still most likely sign with the Bucks and just reiterate his trade demand next offseason. The first year on that rookie scale contract is more than 2 and a half million, a lot more than the 0$ he'd be allowed to make through basketball over the next year if he actually wanted to get away from the Bucks that way. (and starting his NBA career sooner lets him hit free agency sooner which allows him to get his 2nd, 3rd and even 4th contracts at younger ages and likely for more value).
If he IS traded, someone will still give good value. Maybe not Ray Allen or Jason Richardson level value, but if you just get 2 teams willing to give solid offers it's easy to play them off of each other and go from the team looking to get out of a bind to the team taking bids. Look at the collection of garbage the Lakers would give up in this deal, all of the other clubs Yi wants to play for could kill that offer. Expiring contracts hold no appeal to teams with almost no long term contracts on the books anyway, especially when they have had cap room recently and not gotten much out of it. They would want talent if they are giving Yi up, and they aren't getting any in that Laker deal. QRoss and a future 1st is not nearly enough either.
Worst case scenario for the Bucks; No team will give them more than these weak roleplayer and future 1st offers. They keep Yi, call his bluff, and he still refuses to sign. He also does not sign in any foreign league. The Bucks still hold his rights until he's been out of bball for a full year, so they could trade him to one of the teams he would play for at the trade deadline and get at least as much talent as these garbage offers. They don't have some impending deadline, they can hold on to him and see if he will really go through with his demands, and then trade him. There is the danger his value will drop if they wait, but his value can't get much lower than a weak roleplayer and a future 1st. The truth is these LA offers are the type they would be looking at around the deadline, after Yi has sat out for 6 months and proven he wont play for the Bucks.

Last edited by Manphibian420 : 08-28-2007 at 09:27 PM.
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