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Old 08-30-2007, 10:25 AM   #16
brooklynchild155
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

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Originally Posted by oldknickfan
Your problem is that you do not know what a franchise player is.

A franchise player is MUCH more than the team's best player. Put together a bad team and their best player might not even start on a contending team. How many best players on college teams will not even make it in the NBA? Many do not even get drafted into the NBA.

A franchise player is one that you can build a team around and one that can consistently lift the team on his shoulders to win key games. Franchise players can make up for bad teams with their superior effort, heart and skill. Michal Jordan, Kareem-Abdul Jabar, Shack (in his prime) are a few good examples.

Curry may or may not turn out to be that type of player -- but he is not there yet. I recall him winning one game with a three-point shot. How many games did he win with his offence or defence? He has yet to win games consistently.

Curry's defence also has a long way to go. He is not even a complete player. In fact, he often does not play in the last few minutes when the game is on the line. No body sits their franchise player then when they are needed most. Curry is not yet a franchise player or even a two-way player yet. A franchise player is not a one-way player who can only score.

Jamal Crawford, so far is as close to being a franchise player as the Knicks have, because of his willingness, ability and record of wining games down the stretch. But I would not call him a franchise player yet either.

The only franchise players on the Knicks so far are Isiah Thomas and Walt Frasier! These two greats carried their teams to several NBA championships, but unfortunately, now they are the Knick's coach and broadcast analyst.

every single point u made i disagree with, except that curry isnt that good of a defensive player. now let me ask u somethin. u mean to tell me joe johnson from the hawks, michael redd from the bucks, iguadola from philly and many other others, u mean to tell me they couldnt start for any team in the nba. u crazy if u think they couldnt start for any team in basketball. and yes they are the franchise players on there team.

theres no such thing as a player putting his team on his back and carrying them to wins. all those players u names. they played with other hall of fame players. so u cant say that they carried the team. and frasier was a great player. but the knicks at that time the whole starting lineup is in the hall of fame. and including frasier there was 4 guys in that lineup that in the top 50 in the history of the game. so what u sayin is false.

curry is the franchise player. and i like the fact that he's the franchise player. everybody on the team know he's the franchise player. every move isiah makes is because of curry. and i like because he will raise his game to another level because he knows he counted on to deliver. the knicks goes as curry goes. plain and simple. if he plays as good as his potential they would be a top team.

Last edited by brooklynchild155 : 08-30-2007 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:47 PM   #17
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

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Originally Posted by brooklynchild155
every single point u made i disagree with, except that curry isnt that good of a defensive player. now let me ask u somethin. u mean to tell me joe johnson from the hawks, michael redd from the bucks, iguadola from philly and many other others, u mean to tell me they couldnt start for any team in the nba. u crazy if u think they couldnt start for any team in basketball. and yes they are the franchise players on there team.

theres no such thing as a player putting his team on his back and carrying them to wins. all those players u names. they played with other hall of fame players. so u cant say that they carried the team. and frasier was a great player. but the knicks at that time the whole starting lineup is in the hall of fame. and including frasier there was 4 guys in that lineup that in the top 50 in the history of the game. so what u sayin is false.

curry is the franchise player. and i like the fact that he's the franchise player. everybody on the team know he's the franchise player. every move isiah makes is because of curry. and i like because he will raise his game to another level because he knows he counted on to deliver. the knicks goes as curry goes. plain and simple. if he plays as good as his potential they would be a top team.

Curry may be the best that the knicks have but he is not yet a franchise player. You can build your team around your franchise player. he is not a one-way center without any D or shot blocking as Curry is!

When Willis Reid came back limping in game seven of the NBA playoffs to hit the first two shots, Walt Frazier carried the Knicks with a monster game in points and assists to win the championship. In yet another NBA final, point guard, Magic Johnson filled in at center for injured Kareem Abdul Jabbar to win that one - by also carrying his team on his shoulders.

Yes I agree with you on one point, not since Wilt Chamberlain, has any franchise player has done it all by himself without a good supporting cast. But remove Michael Jordan from any of his championship teams and they would not have won a single championship without him. The Knicks eliminated the Bulls in the playofs the season when MJ retired to play pro baseball.

A franchise player makes an overwhelming difference to the results. He wins perhaps 10 or more games per season -- just because HE is there. He helps you win lots more.

How many games did Curry win last season?

I remember just one.

If, you could chose any player to start your franchise, would Curry be in the top 5? Top 10? Top 20? There are much more dominant players than Curry. He did not even show any heart prior to last year - and he is still considered to be passive.

Just look at the number of games that Curry was put on the bench in the fourth quarter with games on the line during the past two years because of his lack of D and his lack of dominance If he was a franchise player he would be out there when the game is on the line. You want your franchise player out there then because he is likely to win them.

Look at the top 5 (or perhaps 10) players in the NBA. They are all franchise players, maybe more.

Curry is not in that group.

Michael Redd is a fine player -- but NOT a franchise player.

And Curry is not even as good as Michal Redd!

Curry would not be my chioce, if I could have any (franchise) player to start a team.

A franchise player is the one player you would chose to start a team. Yesterday it was Jordan, Bird, Magic, Shack and Kareem. today it might be Duncan, Kobe, Garnette, LeBron, Carmelo or T-Mac -- NOT Curry!!!!

Last edited by oldknickfan : 09-08-2007 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 09-11-2007, 12:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldknickfan
Curry may be the best that the knicks have but he is not yet a franchise player. You can build your team around your franchise player. he is not a one-way center without any D or shot blocking as Curry is!

When Willis Reid came back limping in game seven of the NBA playoffs to hit the first two shots, Walt Frazier carried the Knicks with a monster game in points and assists to win the championship. In yet another NBA final, point guard, Magic Johnson filled in at center for injured Kareem Abdul Jabbar to win that one - by also carrying his team on his shoulders.

Yes I agree with you on one point, not since Wilt Chamberlain, has any franchise player has done it all by himself without a good supporting cast. But remove Michael Jordan from any of his championship teams and they would not have won a single championship without him. The Knicks eliminated the Bulls in the playofs the season when MJ retired to play pro baseball.

A franchise player makes an overwhelming difference to the results. He wins perhaps 10 or more games per season -- just because HE is there. He helps you win lots more.

How many games did Curry win last season?

I remember just one.

If, you could chose any player to start your franchise, would Curry be in the top 5? Top 10? Top 20? There are much more dominant players than Curry. He did not even show any heart prior to last year - and he is still considered to be passive.

Just look at the number of games that Curry was put on the bench in the fourth quarter with games on the line during the past two years because of his lack of D and his lack of dominance If he was a franchise player he would be out there when the game is on the line. You want your franchise player out there then because he is likely to win them.

Look at the top 5 (or perhaps 10) players in the NBA. They are all franchise players, maybe more.

Curry is not in that group.

Michael Redd is a fine player -- but NOT a franchise player.

And Curry is not even as good as Michal Redd!

Curry would not be my chioce, if I could have any (franchise) player to start a team.

A franchise player is the one player you would chose to start a team. Yesterday it was Jordan, Bird, Magic, Shack and Kareem. today it might be Duncan, Kobe, Garnette, LeBron, Carmelo or T-Mac -- NOT Curry!!!!

personally i dont see how anyone wouldnt call curry the franchise player on the knicks but whatever. but u can say that curry is the main guy on the team. i like the fact that he is the main guy on the team because he would raise his game because he is counted on to deliever every night.
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Old 09-11-2007, 02:17 AM   #19
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

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Originally Posted by brooklynchild155
...but u can say that curry is the main guy on the team. i like the fact that he is the main guy on the team because he would raise his game because he is counted on to deliever every night.

Here we do agree.

Curry is a good natured, easygoing person -- even in sports. It was great for him to be challenged and forced to take a key role on the Knicks. To his credit, he did accept that role and grew enormously from the experience. I hope it continues, because there is no knowing how good he can be -- if he wants it. He is big, quick and athletic.

It would be much better, if Curry was self-motivated, rather than having to be pushed. But, I don't think Curry will ever have the killer instinct that dominant players like Michal Jordan had. Jordan would enjoy crushing the other team when he had them on the ropes. Unfortunately Curry needs to be pushed to even step up.

Sportscasters are predicting that this coming season, Zack Randolph will replace Curry as "the man" on the Knicks. They say that ZR is self motivated and a much better all around player than Curry. Randolph might turn out to be the franchise player on the Knicks. Hopefully, Curry will fight to improve even further and to keep his role as the number 1 option. If so, Curry could become a franchise player in time. But I doubt that he has the drive to do so.

Next season, I suspect that Curry will either become an all star or a second fiddle to Randolph depending on Curry's desire to improve. I hope for the former but expect the latter.
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

I know nobody wants to admit it but we don't have a franchise player. If we did it would have to be Steph. Bottom line is he's the only player on our team who EVERY team has to respect. There is no pg in the league who takes Steph for granted and, despite the fact that everyone wants to point out that he's not a winner, he's the only one on our team who has led a team to the playoffs. I don't mean a supporting actor...i'm talking about the star lead role
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Old 09-19-2007, 02:21 PM   #21
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

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I know nobody wants to admit it but we don't have a franchise player. If we did it would have to be Steph. Bottom line is he's the only player on our team who EVERY team has to respect. There is no pg in the league who takes Steph for granted and, despite the fact that everyone wants to point out that he's not a winner, he's the only one on our team who has led a team to the playoffs. I don't mean a supporting actor...i'm talking about the star lead role

If only the Wiz could give him a brain! He is as talented as they come, but is he learning how to make players better and to win?

Jason Kidd does not have a tenth of Marbury's skill. But JK knows how to win and optimises everyone around him.

When Marbury learns this lesson, the Knicks become much better. If Isiah can teach Stephon that lesson.
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Old 09-19-2007, 04:19 PM   #22
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

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Originally Posted by oldknickfan
If only the Wiz could give him a brain! He is as talented as they come, but is he learning how to make players better and to win?

Jason Kidd does not have a tenth of Marbury's skill. But JK knows how to win and optimises everyone around him.

When Marbury learns this lesson, the Knicks become much better. If Isiah can teach Stephon that lesson.

LMAO how do we live in a world that JK doesnt have a tenth of Marbury's skill. Cmon man. better passer, better finisher, stronger, faster on the break. Basically Marbury MAYBE has a better shot then JK but JK always hits it when he has to and Marbury misses em when he has to.

Why say Zeke is gonna teach him. The bastard is 31 with no knees, no feet, and a bad back. I know he plays for us and some of us like him but even making an attempt to compare them two is BLASPHEMY to the POINT GUARD GOD'S.

Marbury is OK at point guard. He's no JK.
Eddy Curry is no franchise player either.
No franchise player only plays one side of the court. 7 rpg and 0.7 bpg IS BASIC PROOF.

And not have a franchise player isnt bad. Pistons didnt have one and they won big.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:44 PM   #23
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

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LMAO how do we live in a world that JK doesnt have a tenth of Marbury's skill. Cmon man. better passer, better finisher, stronger, faster on the break. Basically Marbury MAYBE has a better shot then JK but JK always hits it when he has to and Marbury misses em when he has to.

Why say Zeke is gonna teach him. The bastard is 31 with no knees, no feet, and a bad back. I know he plays for us and some of us like him but even making an attempt to compare them two is BLASPHEMY to the POINT GUARD GOD'S.

Marbury is OK at point guard. He's no JK.
Eddy Curry is no franchise player either.
No franchise player only plays one side of the court. 7 rpg and 0.7 bpg IS BASIC PROOF.

And not have a franchise player isnt bad. Pistons didnt have one and they won big.

how can u say comparing jason kidd and stephon marbury is blasphemy to the point gaurd gods. u talkin crazy yo. and u sayin marbury is ok. theres not a lot of guys in the history of basketball thats done more then marbury. the numbers dont lie look it up. i dont care how much u dislike marbury u cant say he's ok. he's way more then ok. when marbury is at his best theres not a man in this world that can gaurd him and u cant say that for everybody.
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

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Originally Posted by brooklynchild155
how can u say comparing jason kidd and stephon marbury is blasphemy to the point gaurd gods. u talkin crazy yo. and u sayin marbury is ok. theres not a lot of guys in the history of basketball thats done more then marbury. the numbers dont lie look it up. i dont care how much u dislike marbury u cant say he's ok. he's way more then ok. when marbury is at his best theres not a man in this world that can gaurd him and u cant say that for everybody.

good point there.
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:19 AM   #25
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

I think Jason Kidd is great and he would help the Knicks far more than Marbury!!! But JK does not have a consistent outside shot and is NOT a scorer or a penetrator.

However, Marbury is a much better scorer, penetrator and shooter than JK. And Stephon is a better defender, too.

On another team that needs a scorer, Marbury's career 20 ppg & 8 apg would be appreciated - far more than on NY.

But the Knicks want and need a pass-first point guard. To Marbury's credit, he has tried to become that. We shall see if he continues to learn and do what the Knicks need from him.

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Old 09-21-2007, 08:18 AM   #26
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

For all the people saying the Knicks need a pass first PG, please give me a run down of all the pass first PG's that have won a title in the last 20 years.

Do note that Isiah Thomas was not a pass first PG.
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:25 PM   #27
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

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Originally Posted by oldknickfan
...
Jason Kidd does not have a tenth of Marbury's skill. But JK knows how to win and optimises everyone around him.
...

Yikes.

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Old 09-21-2007, 12:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

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Yikes.
Another name gets added to the list of people who don't understand the concept of hyperbole.
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:34 PM   #29
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

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Originally Posted by Da KO King
Another name gets added to the list of people who don't understand the concept of hyperbole.

Hyperbowl - is that one of them new'fangled football games? :

Why so grumpy and unreasonable here on the Knicks board, and mostly reasonable out on the main board? The homers getting you down?
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Old 09-21-2007, 07:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Who do you see as your franchise player?

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Originally Posted by Da KO King
For all the people saying the Knicks need a pass first PG, please give me a run down of all the pass first PG's that have won a title in the last 20 years.

Do note that Isiah Thomas was not a pass first PG.

Just because someone is a Pass-First Point Guard does not mean that they can not carry the team down the stretch.

Isia was better at passing than you think. Look at the list below of the best point guards. Those that have 9 or more assists per game for their career would qualify in my book as Pass-First Point Guards even though they could also score when needed:

Career Statistics
Years PPG RPG APG PER
M. Johnson 13 19.5 7.2 11.2 24.1
J. Stockton 19 13.1 2.7 10.5 21.8
O. Robertson 14 25.7 7.5 9.5 23.2
I. Thomas 13 19.2 3.6 9.3 8.1
J. Kidd 12 14.6 6.5 9.2 18.8
B. Cousy 14 18.4 5.2 7.5 19.8
T. Archibald 13 18.8 2.3 7.4 18.0
S. Nash 10 13.5 2.8 7.1 19.5
G. Payton16 6.9 4.1 6.9 19.2
W. Frazier 13 18.9 5.9 6.1 19.1

Last edited by oldknickfan : 09-21-2007 at 07:56 PM.
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