...something funny when people agrue that Scottie-lead Bulls won 55 games and made it 7 games in the conference semi's, while Jordan never got that far without Pippen in the roster, or when people say that the Bulls were fine without him because they played in only two more losses in '94 than in '93? I'll take for instance Larry Bird. He is widely regarded as a lesser overall player than Michael Jordan, not by a lot, but still a little lesser a player. Everyone's quick to pay respects to him, and rightfully so, he's Larry Bird, one of the greatest ever. However, no one seems to try to take away from Larry or his rings by saying that he was a worse player than Jordan, and played for (what were considered to be) better teams. Somehow that doesn't seem to matter when talking about Larry, and it goes completely past everyone. However, when the topic is Jordan, it has to come up, even though he was a better player playing for worse teams. With the teams that Bird played for, with McHale, Parish, and DJ, I'm pretty sure that if Bird decided to take a hiatus in his prime, say in '86, that team would fair very well still, pull out 50+ wins and make an impact in the playoffs, because they were great players with poise and playoff experience.
I just think that it's pretty unfair to Jordan that he is sometimes discredited for those rings, just because he actually did take a hiatus, and the team faired well without him. That team had a great system, good players, and a point to prove.
...something funny when people agrue that Scottie-lead Bulls won 55 games and made it 7 games in the conference semi's, while Jordan never got that far without Pippen in the roster, or when people say that the Bulls were fine without him because they played in only two more losses in '94 than in '93? I'll take for instance Larry Bird. He is widely regarded as a lesser overall player than Michael Jordan, not by a lot, but still a little lesser a player. Everyone's quick to pay respects to him, and rightfully so, he's Larry Bird, one of the greatest ever. However, no one seems to try to take away from Larry or his rings by saying that he was a worse player than Jordan, and played for (what were considered to be) better teams. Somehow that doesn't seem to matter when talking about Larry, and it goes completely past everyone. However, when the topic is Jordan, it has to come up, even though he was a better player playing for worse teams. With the teams that Bird played for, with McHale, Parish, and DJ, I'm pretty sure that if Bird decided to take a hiatus in his prime, say in '86, that team would fair very well still, pull out 50+ wins and make an impact in the playoffs, because they were great players with poise and playoff experience.
I just think that it's pretty unfair to Jordan that he is sometimes discredited for those rings, just because he actually did take a hiatus, and the team faired well without him. That team had a great system, good players, and a point to prove.
Anyway, feel free to discuss, I'm done for now.
Pippen is discredited more for being considered one of the 50 greats than MJ is for winning those rings. In FACT (thats all I'm spewing here) Pippen is discredited in general for being a great player all because of MJ. And even IF by chance one fan conceeds Pippen had the skills, Pippen is discredited for the toughness, bball iq ie intangibles more or less because MJ supposedly downloaded those into him. You know from MJ's hard drive to Pippens.
So forgive me for being rude and mean but shut the hell up about MJ being discredited and unfair treatment when far more players are discredited offline and online. 9 out of 10 times you'll hear "MJ made Pippen" while 1 out of 10 times you'll hear "MJ never won without Pippen". Sit there...dont get up, dont go to the restroom...sit there and finish your veggies (reading my reply/thinkin on it).
Pippen is discredited more for being considered one of the 50 greats than MJ is for winning those rings. In FACT (thats all I'm spewing here) Pippen is discredited in general for being a great player all because of MJ. And even IF by chance one fan conceeds Pippen had the skills, Pippen is discredited for the toughness, bball iq ie intangibles more or less because MJ supposedly downloaded those into him. You know from MJ's hard drive to Pippens.
So forgive me for being rude and mean but shut the hell up about MJ being discredited and unfair treatment when far more players are discredited offline and online. 9 out of 10 times you'll hear "MJ made Pippen" while 1 out of 10 times you'll hear "MJ never won without Pippen". Sit there...dont get up, dont go to the restroom...sit there and finish your veggies (reading my reply/thinkin on it).
Pippen is discredited more for being considered one of the 50 greats than MJ is for winning those rings. In FACT (thats all I'm spewing here) Pippen is discredited in general for being a great player all because of MJ. And even IF by chance one fan conceeds Pippen had the skills, Pippen is discredited for the toughness, bball iq ie intangibles more or less because MJ supposedly downloaded those into him. You know from MJ's hard drive to Pippens.
So forgive me for being rude and mean but shut the hell up about MJ being discredited and unfair treatment when far more players are discredited offline and online. 9 out of 10 times you'll hear "MJ made Pippen" while 1 out of 10 times you'll hear "MJ never won without Pippen". Sit there...dont get up, dont go to the restroom...sit there and finish your veggies (reading my reply/thinkin on it).
Sure, you've been in this forum longer than I have, and have heard the Jordan made Pippen agruements outside of this forum as well, which, while it may very well be true that Pippen learned a lot from Jordan, is still plain ridiculous that Jordan a lot of times gets credit for Pippen's game. The overrate of Jordan is nothing new, but that in mind, the underrating of Jordan is coming along with it, moreso nowadays. Don't treat me like an idiot or a homer, I felt I'd address something about a great player on a great team compared to another great player on another great team, and that's what I did.
I've heard all sorts of excuses for the 55 win Bulls team... The league was weak that year... they overachieved... teams took them for granted... Scottie gets discredited way more than Jordan.
The reason why I mentioned this was because of the kind of overrating/underrating that goes on here. I should have mentioned that either/or is pretty ridiculous.
Sure, you've been in this forum longer than I have, and have heard the Jordan made Pippen agruements outside of this forum as well, which, while it may very well be true that Pippen learned a lot from Jordan, is still plain ridiculous that Jordan a lot of times gets credit for Pippen's game. The overrate of Jordan is nothing new, but that in mind, the underrating of Jordan is coming along with it, moreso nowadays. Don't treat me like an idiot or a homer, I felt I'd address something about a great player on a great team compared to another great player on another great team, and that's what I did.
What you did was ridiculous. MJ getting discredited is rare. Even here when its done it doesnt compare/stack up to other NBA players. Its funny how him being overrated is cool but the second you underrate, you discredit then blasphemy and suddenly you NOTICE this more? No you didnt, I call BS. A topic about Pippen and perhaps Kobe was created...where MJ was involved and you concluded your topic based on that. You know it, I know it, the board knows it. Cut the crap kid.
Yes, I do notice it; yes, it's annoying. Pippen-boosters/anti-MJ posters will frequently cite this fact as evidence that Jordan's impact wasn't that large. However, they'll always compare the '94 Bulls to the '93 Bulls and not the 67-win '92 Bulls, despite the fact that Pippen, Jordan, and Jackson are all on record as stating that they were tired from the Dream Team that Summer and weren't playing up to par.
So Jordan's impact is really +12 wins and 2 more playoff rounds. We won't even get into the fact that Chicago would have stood a good chance of losing that first round Cleveland series in '94 if Daugherty (17/10) and Williams (14/7) weren't injured, seeing as how Cleveland was 3-1 vs. Chicago that season. But yeah, lots of people would like to believe that he was only worth 2 wins, because it's convenient for them to do so.
The only people that hate on Jordan on this site are, unsurprisingly, Bryant supporters. The rest of the site gives Pip his due far, far less of the time than Jordan. Don't even go there.
What you did was ridiculous. MJ getting discredited is rare. Even here when its done it doesnt compare/stack up to other NBA players. Its funny how him being overrated is cool but the second you underrate, you discredit then blasphemy and suddenly you NOTICE this more? No you didnt, I call BS. A topic about Pippen and perhaps Kobe was created...where MJ was involved and you concluded your topic based on that. You know it, I know it, the board knows it. Cut the crap kid.
Its not unfair.
Just because it's rare doesn't mean it's right, GOBB. Do you think I'm barrelling over myself preaching the stop to any sort of underrating of MJ? No, damn it. I'm making an observation and a comparison to whom someone, IMO, is more accurately perceieved to basketball fans. Of course I know there are other players that are more underrated. You really think I'm that blind? This is sports, man, a lot of athletes go severely underrated for BS reasons. I figured you would think I knew that, but since you feel the need to bash me for no reason, I will blatantly tell you that I do realize that there are plenty of other players more underrated, Jordan is widely regarded as God, and Pippen is a victim to the overrating of Jordan and it has been that way for many years. You think this is the only place that has ever said something about MJ or Pippen? No. There are others sites on the internet that talk about them, and the saturation of Kobe's greatness in comparison to Jordan. I know you know that, but you act like I don't know that, and that this is the only site I've ever been on that's talked about it. I happen to think that more people have seen more than two threads in their life that underrate Jordan. Even if it has never been as noticable as the rewriting of Jordan in the Bible, it doesn't make it a correct thing to say. Period.
Anyone else notice...
