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Old 08-29-2007, 10:37 AM   #16
Optimus Prime
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Default Re: team of the 80's

I didn't think about reserves.

The 80s were so good, you could literally make up dozens of team combinations and have a valid argument for each one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalkmaze
reserves

John Stockton/Isiah Thomas
Alex English
Adrian Dantley
Charles Barkley
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:38 AM   #17
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Default Re: team of the 80's

I keep seeing Kareem on the list for starting C. Wasn't he on the downward side of his career by the 80s?

I am asking this legitimately; not trying to start a fight. :)

Edit: Wow Kareem played for 20 years...
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:40 AM   #18
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Default Re: team of the 80's

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
here are a few reasons to give charles barkley a spot on the all-80s second team:

85 - all rookie team
86 - all-nba 2nd team
87 - all-nba 2nd team
88 - all-nba 1st team
89 - all-nba 1st team

87, 88, and 89 all star

Averages:

1986 - 20pts, 13brds, 4assts top 6 fg%
1987 - 23pts, 15brds (led league), 5assts top 3fg%
1988 - 28pts, 12brds, 3assts top 3fg%
1989 - 26pts, 12.5brds, 4assts top 2fg%

always had around 1.5 - 2 steals and 1 to 1.5 blocks
made the conference finals one year and never missed the playoffs

malone played one less season, had lower stats across the board and made 2 fewer all-nba teams (just talking about the 80s of course).

bernard king had literally 1 season (85) where he measured up statistically, and he only played 55 games that year. he made 1 less all-nba team and had less success in the playoffs.

dominique is closer. he was putting up great numbers regularly, was healthy, made 4 all nba teams (though one was 3rd team and only one was 1st team) and though he had less playoff success in total, he didn't have quite as good a team as chuck did his first couple of years.

mchale lags behind all the others in total production and individual awards because he played on a great team and wasn't the featured first option. he was the second best player on 3 title teams, a 7 time all defense selection, 2 time 6th man of the year, led the league in fg% twice, became the only player in league history to shoot 60% from the field and 80% from the line in the same season (1987 - 26 pts / gm on 17 shots w/ 10 brds) and was a 5 time all-star.

Actually I must say I agree. Hence....

1:

G Jordan
G Magic
F Bird
F Erving
C Kareem

2:

G Thomas
G Gervin
F Wilkins
F Barkley
C M.Malone
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:41 AM   #19
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Default Re: team of the 80's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Prime
I keep seeing Kareem on the list for starting C. Wasn't he on the downward side of his career by the 80s?

I am asking this legitimately; not trying to start a fight. :)

Not really, he was the finals MVP in 85.
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:45 AM   #20
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Default Re: team of the 80's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Prime
Magic
Jordan
Bird
Karl Malone
Hakeem
i don't know if you were there to watch, but karl really doesn't deserve this spot over doc or chuck. hakeem probably doesn't deserve this spot over moses or kareem either. if you check the the argument for charles i posted above, you can pretty much see it in the stats without even having my distorted kid's memory of the games. the 80s were insanely stacked because so many of the 70s guys (moses, kareem, iceman, etc) were still good and so many of the guys who came in in 84 / 85 were very mature and started to totally light it up very early in their careers. then of course you've got all the 80s guys including magic and larry in their primes.
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:46 AM   #21
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Default Re: team of the 80's

You must have missed my post where I said there could be tons of combinations and good arguments for each...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
i don't know if you were there to watch, but karl really doesn't deserve this spot over doc or chuck. hakeem probably doesn't deserve this spot over moses or kareem either. if you check the the argument for charles i posted above, you can pretty much see it in the stats without even having my distorted kid's memory of the games. the 80s were insanely stacked because so many of the 70s guys (moses, kareem, iceman, etc) were still good and so many of the guys who came in in 84 / 85 were very mature and started to totally light it up very early in their careers. then of course you've got all the 80s guys including magic and larry in their primes.
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:49 AM   #22
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Default Re: team of the 80's

The 80s, and really even to the end of '93, were insanely good.

Best era of NBA basketball ever and no other era is even remotely close.
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Old 08-29-2007, 11:04 AM   #23
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Default Re: team of the 80's

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
i don't know if you were there to watch, but karl really doesn't deserve this spot over doc or chuck. hakeem probably doesn't deserve this spot over moses or kareem either. if you check the the argument for charles i posted above, you can pretty much see it in the stats without even having my distorted kid's memory of the games. the 80s were insanely stacked because so many of the 70s guys (moses, kareem, iceman, etc) were still good and so many of the guys who came in in 84 / 85 were very mature and started to totally light it up very early in their careers. then of course you've got all the 80s guys including magic and larry in their primes.

Dr. J isn't a PF and I consider Karl Malone better than Dr. J. Barkley vs Malone is tough though.
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Old 08-29-2007, 11:07 AM   #24
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Default Re: team of the 80's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Prime
You must have missed my post where I said there could be tons of combinations and good arguments for each...
yes i did! sorry about that.

as to your kareem question, i think there are arguments going both ways. he was on the downside, but he was an important part of 5 titles. he won the mvp in 80. but i think moses won 2 mvps in the 80s and beat kareem head to head in 2 playoff series, sweeping him for a title in 83. it could be argued that he was a bigger / more important part of his contending teams' game plan than kareem was in the 80s, but there's nothing definitive. hakeem was really great too.
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Old 08-29-2007, 11:25 AM   #25
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Default Re: team of the 80's

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMVP1551
Dr. J isn't a PF and I consider Karl Malone better than Dr. J. Barkley vs Malone is tough though.
all-nba team don't go by pg, sg, sf, pf, and c. they just use g, f, and c. also bird was the celtics starting pf from 1980 to 1985, so you could swing bird to that spot if you want to stick with the 5 position system.

as far as karl (who played a total of 4 years in the 80s) vs. dr. j. irving:

won the mvp in 81

made 5 all-nba teams in the 80s (to 2 for karl - who didn't even play 5 season in the 80s)
made 8 all-star teams

brought the sixers past the celtics and took the magic / kareem lakers to 6 games as his teams best player in 80 and 82. made the conference finals 5 times in the 80s and the finals 3 times and won a ring as the second best player on the team.

imo karl malone was the best forward of the 90s bar none, and he was at best the 4th best in the 80s (could argue others). barkley has more awards, better total numbers, more playoff success, and more years played in the 80s. irving's mvp and ring and two finals appearances as his team's best player have to put him ahead of everybody other than larry in the decade imo.
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Old 08-29-2007, 11:33 AM   #26
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Default Re: team of the 80's

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
all-nba team don't go by pg, sg, sf, pf, and c. they just use g, f, and c. also bird was the celtics starting pf from 1980 to 1985, so you could swing bird to that spot if you want to stick with the 5 position system.

as far as karl (who played a total of 4 years in the 80s) vs. dr. j. irving:

won the mvp in 81

made 5 all-nba teams in the 80s (to 2 for karl - who didn't even play 5 season in the 80s)
made 8 all-star teams

brought the sixers past the celtics and took the magic / kareem lakers to 6 games as his teams best player in 80 and 82. made the conference finals 5 times in the 80s and the finals 3 times and won a ring as the second best player on the team.

imo karl malone was the best forward of the 90s bar none, and he was at best the 4th best in the 80s (could argue others). barkley has more awards, better total numbers, more playoff success, and more years played in the 80s. irving's mvp and ring and two finals appearances as his team's best player have to put him ahead of everybody other than larry in the decade imo.

All NBA teams don't go by PG, SG ect. that is true but the question was team of the 80's not all nba team of the 80's. As far as best overall forward of the 90's I'd give that title to Pippen. Erving is a hall of famer but not one of the 2 best forwards of the 80's.
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Old 08-29-2007, 11:37 AM   #27
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Default Re: team of the 80's

Kalrm malone shouldn't be on n all-1980's team. He only has 2 All-Stars appearances and 2 All-NBA teams. Hell, I'm starting to think about taking Kevin McHale of f of my 1980's squad as he only made 1 All-NBA team.
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Old 08-29-2007, 12:04 PM   #28
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Default Re: team of the 80's

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
as to your kareem question, i think there are arguments going both ways. he was on the downside, but he was an important part of 5 titles. he won the mvp in 80. but i think moses won 2 mvps in the 80s and beat kareem head to head in 2 playoff series, sweeping him for a title in 83. it could be argued that he was a bigger / more important part of his contending teams' game plan than kareem was in the 80s, but there's nothing definitive. hakeem was really great too.

I don't think we can really say that he was on the downside until the very last years of his career. In 86 he was still averaging 23.4ppg and he played a big part in the 87 title too. It was only his last 2 years when he wasn't very productive.

But yes, Moses was great too, and won 2 MVP's, a finals MVP and played in two finals - won one. In 83 finals Lakers were missing two of their starters, and Malone wasn't exactly kicking Jabbar's ass. Kareem scored, 20, 23, 23 and 28, Malone scored 27, 24, 28 and 24. But yes, you can make a case for him being in 1st team ahead of Jabbar.
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:39 AM   #29
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Default Re: team of the 80's

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
first team looks fine, though i might switch kareem with moses. it's close though. i would definitely take out nique and put in charles. charles was making all-nba first teams in the 80s (think he made three of them). i might replace king with mchale too. personal preference for the more rounded, dominant low post scorer / defender and three time champ over the phenominal pure scorer.

as big a kareem fan as i am, i would say that moses had an overall better decade of the 80s. tough to leave hakeem off too although kareems 80-85 was stronger than (h)akeem's 85-89

i would keep bernard over mchale-- purely because of the numbers

imo, 'nique should stay over charles (for the 80s) although u could see that a case could be made for charles
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:35 AM   #30
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Default Re: team of the 80's

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainierBeachPoet
as big a kareem fan as i am, i would say that moses had an overall better decade of the 80s. tough to leave hakeem off too although kareems 80-85 was stronger than (h)akeem's 85-89

i would keep bernard over mchale-- purely because of the numbers

imo, 'nique should stay over charles (for the 80s) although u could see that a case could be made for charles
i can see that, but charles actually had better numbers than king in the 80s. and more success. and at the very worst equally tight shorts. so even if you want to keep nique over chuck, and keep king over gumby, i don't think you can keep king over chuck.

i'm in a big pro-barkley mode right now.
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