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Old 09-03-2007, 04:31 PM   #16
Interminator
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

Charlie V played 39 games last year and wasnt even 60% as well as when he played he averaged 25 mpg

Charlie V is a 18-8 type of guy,hes the starting PF by far next season but both him and Bogut are going to lose minutes to Gadzuric,Voshkul and mentioning Yi as well,im sure as hell China or his agent would've let him sign if he was only going to play 11 mpg,the Bucks must've promised him 20-25 mpg next season

Charlie V is basically a young Lamar Odom and when healthy he can stretch the defense by bringing the power foward 15 ft away from the basket leaving in a man to man offense Bogut one on one with the opposing team's center
even in a zone offense Charlie V can stretch the defense out,with Redd already as a player of interest for the defense and Williams being a good shooter as well it should open up many chances for Bogut

next season will determine if hes worth keeping after his rookie contract because 7footers like him usually get a 7 mil per year deal when its contract time
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
I don't know who Doctor Rebound is, but I can assure you Bogut won't be losing minutes to Voshkul. He'll get as many minutes as his conditioning will allow, all the way up to 48.

12.3 (55%)/8.8/3.0 isn't bad for a sophomore. We know by now that he won't be a hall of famer, but there's no reason to rule out him becoming a borderline all-star type guy who makes it some years and misses it some years.

Marcus Camby year 2: 12.1 (41%)/7.4/1.8
Jermaine O'Neal year 5: 12.9 (46%)9.8/1.2
Brad Miller year 4: 12.7 (46%)/8.4/2.1
Chris Kaman year 3: 11.9 (52%)/9.6/1.0

Who am I forgetting that's a good but not hall of fame level center to compare to?
JO year 5,Brad Miller year 4?

what are you trying to prove and how did Kaman get into these discussions

Camby is a Top C in the West,he has been a Top 10 C for almost the past decade
Jermaine O'Neal has made about 6 all star games and hes commonly classified as a PF
Brad Miller had a few good years but injuries has ruined his career
Chris Kaman is a decent center
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:44 PM   #18
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

I've never thought of Bogut as a bust and would GLADLY take him on the Raptors in exchange for any player not named Chris Bosh. He is both tough and smart, a combo that I like in a center.

From what I saw of the Bucks was either disarray on offense or chucking from the perimeter and I'm sure most of that goes back to Stotts. I know nothing of their new coach but for their sake, I hope he can utilize Bogut as he can be a very good offensive weapon IMO. His defense will be all about just playing good position and keeping players away from the basket rather than blocking shots. His rebounding could stand to improve (9 in 34 minutes seems a bit low) but he's only 23 and entering his 3rd year in the league, I don't think there are many worries there.
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:48 PM   #19
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interminator
Charlie V is a 18-8 type of guy,hes the starting PF by far next season but both him and Bogut are going to lose minutes to Gadzuric,Voshkul and mentioning Yi as well
If that's true, then it's also true that Lebron is going to lose minutes to Ira Newble, and Kobe is going to lose minutes to Sasha Vujacic.
Quote:
next season will determine if hes worth keeping after his rookie contract because 7footers like him usually get a 7 mil per year deal when its contract time
Every team in the NBA would be willing to pay Bogut $7 million. All 30 out of 30. Even if there was a 0% chance that he'd improve upon last year.
Quote:
JO year 5,Brad Miller year 4?

what are you trying to prove and how did Kaman get into these discussions
I'm comparing Bogut to other good but not Shaquille O'Neal or Tim Duncan centers, and finding their first comparable season to what Bogut had. JO had his first similar season in year 5 and Miller in year 4.
Quote:
Camby is a Top C in the West,he has been a Top 10 C for almost the past decade
Jermaine O'Neal has made about 6 all star games
And there's no reason so far to say that Bogut cannot turn out like them (not in style but in overall effectiveness). It will require a good work ethic, but he's not behind thus far.
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Old 09-03-2007, 05:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
I don't know who Doctor Rebound is, but I can assure you Bogut won't be losing minutes to Voshkul. He'll get as many minutes as his conditioning will allow, all the way up to 48.

12.3 (55%)/8.8/3.0 isn't bad for a sophomore. We know by now that he won't be a hall of famer, but there's no reason to rule out him becoming a borderline all-star type guy who makes it some years and misses it some years.

Marcus Camby year 2: 12.1 (41%)/7.4/1.8
Jermaine O'Neal year 5: 12.9 (46%)9.8/1.2
Brad Miller year 4: 12.7 (46%)/8.4/2.1
Chris Kaman year 3: 11.9 (52%)/9.6/1.0

Who am I forgetting that's a good but not hall of fame level center to compare to?

I think you are missing the fact that he is one of the best passing centers in the league and is still only going into his 3rd season playing a position that typically takes some seasoning to excel at.

Look forward to another average year followed by a 16/11/5/1/1 season which is very respectable.
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Old 09-03-2007, 06:17 PM   #21
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

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Originally Posted by Phenith
I think you are missing the fact that he is one of the best passing centers in the league and is still only going into his 3rd season playing a position that typically takes some seasoning to excel at.
Me?? Lots of other people are missing that, but I watched him play probably 75 times last year. I'm a fan!

I'm the one who thinks Bogut is on track to be one of those borderline allstar type players. I think he'll make 2-3 allstar games in his career, and be a great 2nd or 3rd option on a playoff team.
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Old 09-03-2007, 06:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

How in the world can any 7 foot post player succeed on the BUCKS?

I think that's the point everyone's missing. this is the BUCKS. a 3-ball's been shot up before Bogut can even run back to the offensive field of play. to say Bogut's a bust because he's getting "only" 13/9/3 on the BUCKS in his second year isn't wise at all.
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:17 PM   #23
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

BUCKS scored an awful lot in the paint last year. #10 in the NBA.
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

takes longer for big men to develop there game to don't forget.
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:17 PM   #25
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

way too early to be writing off bogut...

tough to really judge 1st round picks until its time to give them their 2nd contract... and from what i've seen so far, he plays with an edge, rebounds well, and as everyone knows, is a great passer.

anyone else think prime vlade divac numbers are out of his reach? i don't... probably going to score a bit more too
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:27 PM   #26
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
I don't know who Doctor Rebound is, but I can assure you Bogut won't be losing minutes to Voshkul. He'll get as many minutes as his conditioning will allow, all the way up to 48.

12.3 (55%)/8.8/3.0 isn't bad for a sophomore. We know by now that he won't be a hall of famer, but there's no reason to rule out him becoming a borderline all-star type guy who makes it some years and misses it some years.

Marcus Camby year 2: 12.1 (41%)/7.4/1.8
Jermaine O'Neal year 5: 12.9 (46%)9.8/1.2
Brad Miller year 4: 12.7 (46%)/8.4/2.1
Chris Kaman year 3: 11.9 (52%)/9.6/1.0

Who am I forgetting that's a good but not hall of fame level center to compare to?

None of those players were #1 overall picks if I am not mistaken. They should have kept Zaza Pachulia who is the same age but a better player.
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:35 PM   #27
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleTech
anyone else think prime vlade divac numbers are out of his reach? i don't... probably going to score a bit more too
It looks like Vlade's best season was his 6th season in 94-95, when he put up 16 (50%)/10.4/4.1 with 2.2 blocks.

Vlade's 2nd year was 11.2 (56%)/8.1/1.1 with 1.5 blocks
Bogut's 12.3/8.8/3.0 is a little better than that, but Vlade was a better shot blocker. It took Vlade until his 4th season to get the assists going like Bogut. His stats that year (12.8/8.9/2.8) are nearly identical to what Bogut did last year.

Great comparison and as close as you can probably get to Andrew - I don't necessarily think that Andrew will be better than Vlade was in his prime, but I think he can sustain what Vlade did during his best year for a longer period of time. I could see Bogut laying down 16/10/4 for 8 years in a row instead of just once. That would be right in line with the other side of my prediction - that he'll be the kind of guy who makes the allstar team during years when Dwight Howard or whoever is injured, and does a lot to help his team win.
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:41 PM   #28
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo5
None of those players were #1 overall picks if I am not mistaken. They should have kept Zaza Pachulia who is the same age but a better player.
First of all, Zaza's age is every bit as suspect as Yi Jianlian's is, so there's a great chance he and Bogut aren't the same age. Second of all he's not better than Bogut - be realistic.

Zaza: 12.2 ppg (47%), 6.9 rpg, 1.5 apg, .5 bpg
Bogut: 12.3 ppg (55%), 8.8 rpg, 3.0 apg, .5 bpg
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:42 PM   #29
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

"Thank you for logging in, ReturnofJimi."

Well thank you for letting me.

Anyway, I think people forget how easy it has been over the years to make the All-Star team at center. Mainly because of the injury/contract laziness department.

Z, Jamaal Magloire, Brad Miller.

Now, he's gotta deal with Dwight, Shaq, Eddy Curry, Z, JO, BWallace in a suprising year, and... Okafor if he plays C?

Am I forgetting someone? That's really not a whole lot of competition. In two or three years it'll be...

Dwight, Curry, JO, and Okafor if he plays C, along with whoever moves East between now and then... slim pickings.

Quote:
First of all, Zaza's age is every bit as suspect as Yi Jianlian's is, so there's a great chance he and Bogut aren't the same age. Second of all he's not better than Bogut - be realistic.

Zaza: 12.2 ppg (47%), 6.9 rpg, 1.5 apg, .5 bpg
Bogut: 12.3 ppg (55%), 8.8 rpg, 3.0 apg, .5 bpg

Yeah, not to mention the fact that Zaza is filling a hole whole Bogut is opening possiblities. Totally different scale.

Last edited by ReturnOfJimi : 09-03-2007 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:45 PM   #30
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Default Re: Andrew Bogut

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZyAQu4OZLh0

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uiF-cbD5-Xg

Last edited by adamcz : 09-03-2007 at 08:49 PM.
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