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Old 09-06-2007, 05:55 PM   #1
Glove_20
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Default The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

We have always heard the arguments on what "Skill" and "Not a skill" and so on...And it has always lead to confusion...

Here's what IMO makes up every Basketball Player's OVERALL INDIVIDUAL ABILITY



Basketball Skill

Physical Talent

Mentality



The 1st one is obviously the most important, and the 3rd obviously the least. But its what every basketball player is made out of, and you need all 3 to be very good



Basketball Skill or "Skill" period:


-Dribbling Skills
-Shooting Skills
-Passing Skills
-Rebounding Skills (Not Rebounding in General, Rebounding Skill is the "Timing" part)
-Post Moves (Not your Post Game, just the moves you have)


Physical Talent:

-Speed
-Quickness
-Muscle
-Height
-Strength
-Jumping Ability




Mentality:

-Your Confidence
-Your Will
-Your Mentality
-Your Hustle
- Basketball IQ
-Basically, you're desire, or how hard you work, or basically, just your mind on the court.





Now lets look at some basketball characteristics and see which one need more skill vs. something else.

Handling/Dribbling
- That is almost pure skill. You don't need to be strong to dribble, you just need to be skillful. There is a little bit of mentality involved, like if you try to be too fancy on purpose and that brings a higher risk of TOs.

Rebounding- This requires all 3 for you to be successful. And Rebounding is NOT a very skillful thing to do. It requires less skill than something else. Sure you need to time it well, but that's probably the only skill involved. The rest is on how Tough and strong you are (Physical Talent) and your Mentality (Your DESIRE for the ball and you're positioning)

So Rebounding, does not require much skill.


Post Game- This requires some skill and you have to be physically talented. Post Moves is your skill, and the rest is your Physical Talent. Payton probably had more Post Moves than Shaq, but there is no doubt that Shaq is better in the post because of his amazing Physical Talent.






So when people say, he has the most "Skill", I go look at Dribbling/Shooting and things like that. Because those are the ones that require skill. You can be a great rebounder based on your Physical Talent and Mentality alone. You don't need to be "skilled" in any way. Same with shot blocking. Asides from timing, all you need is Physical Talent and the Mentality.

Kobe is probably the most "skilled" player today, but he is not the best.







Do you guys agree or disagree? I'd like to hear other's definition of "Skill"
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by BULLS


Yes, because you can read a player's mind.
Did you even read what I wrote? And Reading Player's Mind and "Mentality" have WHAT to do with each other?

You know things like "Will" or "Desire" or "Confidence" (In clutch, thats really important)
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

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Originally Posted by BULLS
No you don't. Everyone has "will" and "desire" and "confidence." You can't tell the difference because there is no possible way to find out a player's true mentality.

By the way, Kobe is easily the best player in the game.

So every player has the same "will" to get the rebound? Your "Will" has no effect on which one of you will get the rebound? It's impossible to see that players like Dennis Rodman and Moses Malone had that extra Will to get the rebound?

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Old 09-06-2007, 06:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by BULLS
Let me ask you a question. Does Vince Carter have "will?"

A simple yes or no.
Yes


Everyone has will, but some not as much as others...
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by BULLS
No you don't. Everyone has "will" and "desire" and "confidence." You can't tell the difference because there is no possible way to find out a player's true mentality.

By the way, Kobe is easily the best player in the game.

^ if you guys don't yet get the fact that BULLS is just goosing you along...to get you worked up... then you are missing the sport of his posts.
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by BULLS
Athletic freaks have more will than unathletic players.

A great rebounder who is unathletic really doesn't have as much will as an athletic freak who can do nothing but score. The athletic freak trained his ass off to become what he is physically. The amazing rebounder just rebounded the ball well.
Not everyone can be as athletic as they want just cuz you train as much as another player doesn' mean that you will be as athletic as them. So the unathletic players will have to have more will to do what they do unlike athletic players where is comes naturally.
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

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Athletic freaks have more will than unathletic players.
Good Lord...
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by BULLS
Athletic freaks have more will than unathletic players.

A great rebounder who is unathletic really doesn't have as much will as an athletic freak who can do nothing but score. The athletic freak trained his ass off to become what he is physically. The amazing rebounder just rebounded the ball well.

And where did I say that you can accurately judge a players will. I am just saying, its part of what makes every basketball player. How good you are at rebounding WILL depend on your WILL. That's all I am saying Do you disagree? If not, then move on
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glove_20
We have always heard the arguments on what "Skill" and "Not a skill" and so on...And it has always lead to confusion...

Here's what IMO makes up every Basketball Player's OVERALL INDIVIDUAL ABILITY



Basketball Skill

Physical Talent

Mentality



The 1st one is obviously the most important, and the 3rd obviously the least. But its what every basketball player is made out of, and you need all 3 to be very good



Basketball Skill or "Skill" period:


-Dribbling Skills
-Shooting Skills
-Passing Skills
-Rebounding Skills (Not Rebounding in General, Rebounding Skill is the "Timing" part)
-Post Moves (Not your Post Game, just the moves you have)


Physical Talent:

-Speed
-Quickness
-Muscle
-Height
-Strength
-Jumping Ability




Mentality:

-Your Confidence
-Your Will
-Your Mentality
-Your Hustle
- Basketball IQ
-Basically, you're desire, or how hard you work, or basically, just your mind on the court.





Now lets look at some basketball characteristics and see which one need more skill vs. something else.

Handling/Dribbling
- That is almost pure skill. You don't need to be strong to dribble, you just need to be skillful. There is a little bit of mentality involved, like if you try to be too fancy on purpose and that brings a higher risk of TOs.

Rebounding- This requires all 3 for you to be successful. And Rebounding is NOT a very skillful thing to do. It requires less skill than something else. Sure you need to time it well, but that's probably the only skill involved. The rest is on how Tough and strong you are (Physical Talent) and your Mentality (Your DESIRE for the ball and you're positioning)

So Rebounding, does not require much skill.


Post Game- This requires some skill and you have to be physically talented. Post Moves is your skill, and the rest is your Physical Talent. Payton probably had more Post Moves than Shaq, but there is no doubt that Shaq is better in the post because of his amazing Physical Talent.






So when people say, he has the most "Skill", I go look at Dribbling/Shooting and things like that. Because those are the ones that require skill. You can be a great rebounder based on your Physical Talent and Mentality alone. You don't need to be "skilled" in any way. Same with shot blocking. Asides from timing, all you need is Physical Talent and the Mentality.

Kobe is probably the most "skilled" player today, but he is not the best.







Do you guys agree or disagree? I'd like to hear other's definition of "Skill"

You suck.
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by BULLS
That's a myth. Travis Outlaw works much harder than Tim Duncan when it comes to plyometrics.

As far as basketball skills go, that's a different story.

Athletic players work harder than unathletic sissies.
Thats not my point. I said if you get two players and make them do the same work out the results aren't always going to be the same. Everyone is different. So players are just naturally athletic that doesn't give them more will than a player that works hard to get good at something without athleticism.
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

Yeah people over talk about "will" they only go by results to determine will like winning or losing is directly tied to your 'will' you really can't tell ....but behave as if they can.

rebounding also requires well doesn't require but involves balance and footwork...if your really into it of course a lot of rebounds just come to someone..
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

I don't think Basketball IQ should be included in "mentality". It deserves it's own category, or should be included in "skill". Knowing what to do on the basketball court definitely is rather a "skill" than"mentality".
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunch@Five
I don't think Basketball IQ should be included in "mentality". It deserves it's own category, or should be included in "skill". Knowing what to do on the basketball court definitely is rather a "skill" than"mentality".

I should've just called Mentality, Mind. Because thats what I meant, all Mind things, go in that section...
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:56 PM   #14
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicero
Every rational discussion of anything whatsoever should begin with a definition in order to make clear what is the subject of dispute.

These don't need to be the right definitions (there really isn't such a thing anyhow), but it's important to have definitions for an argument. Obviously, people come to different conclusions on such topics as who's the best basketball player now based largely on definitions. And, unless those debating come upon some agreed definitions, there's no chance of consensus--or even a coherent argument.

In another thread, Thorpe said that he considered a player fitting into a team system and making a team better (or something along those lines) to be a skill. You don't include that in your definition, so in an argument over, say, who the most skilled basketball player is now, these definitions will logically lead to different answers.

Anyhow, it's good that you're attempting to define the words for the argument.

Depending on the situation, I'd accept or decline your definitions. It moslty seems to make sense to me. To find one part to discuss, though, your description of rebounding seems a bit off to me--or maybe it doesn't make as much sense to me.

Quote:
Rebounding Skills (Not Rebounding in General, Rebounding Skill is the "Timing" part)

Quote:
Rebounding- This requires all 3 for you to be successful. And Rebounding is NOT a very skillful thing to do. It requires less skill than something else. Sure you need to time it well, but that's probably the only skill involved. The rest is on how Tough and strong you are (Physical Talent) and your Mentality (Your DESIRE for the ball and you're positioning)

So Rebounding, does not require much skill.

Quote:
You can be a great rebounder based on your Physical Talent and Mentality alone. You don't need to be "skilled" in any way.

Is boxing out and positioning not a skill? Coaches seem to think it is. Yes, strength and quickness are going to signifcantly determine how effective a player is in accomplishing the task, but without the proper skills of positioing and timing, it won't matter much how strong and quick a player is when it comes to getting a rebound. Mentality matters a lot, too--wanting the position, the determination to fight for it, the knowledge of where the ball is likely to carom off the boards, etc. Nevertheless, I don't see how rebounding "does not require much skill."

Anyhow, this seems to be an ongoing debate that I'm not very involved in, but I think it's good that you're defining the words for the argument.
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Old 09-06-2007, 10:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: The 3 Things that Make up Every Basketball Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Fence
These don't need to be the right definitions (there really isn't such a thing anyhow), but it's important to have definitions for an argument. Obviously, people come to different conclusions on such topics as who's the best basketball player now based largely on definitions. And, unless those debating come upon some agreed definitions, there's no chance of consensus--or even a coherent argument.

In another thread, Thorpe said that he considered a player fitting into a team system and making a team better (or something along those lines) to be a skill. You don't include that in your definition, so in an argument over, say, who the most skilled basketball player is now, these definitions will logically lead to different answers.

Anyhow, it's good that you're attempting to define the words for the argument.

Depending on the situation, I'd accept or decline your definitions. It moslty seems to make sense to me. To find one part to discuss, though, your description of rebounding seems a bit off to me--or maybe it doesn't make as much sense to me.







Is boxing out and positioning not a skill? Coaches seem to think it is. Yes, strength and quickness are going to signifcantly determine how effective a player is in accomplishing the task, but without the proper skills of positioing and timing, it won't matter much how strong and quick a player is when it comes to getting a rebound. Mentality matters a lot, too--wanting the position, the determination to fight for it, the knowledge of where the ball is likely to carom off the boards, etc. Nevertheless, I don't see how rebounding "does not require much skill."

Anyhow, this seems to be an ongoing debate that I'm not very involved in, but I think it's good that you're defining the words for the argument.


I think I understand what he's trying to convey...While there are skilled rebounders at the very top when you talk about all time rebounders like Rodman, Russell, Malone's and Lucas...you have other guys who just by position and size are decent to good rebounders...Mark Eaton, or even SHAQ..who had the timing etc and good footwork but is usually just standing there gazing when a shot goes up not using anything he was taught...becuz invariabley the ball bounces to someone and usually it's the defense without them using much 'skill'
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