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Old 09-07-2007, 01:27 AM   #16
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

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Originally Posted by VCMVP1551
Nothing really. I guess though you could look at the players I picked and see that you need everything to be top 10...rings, stats, clutch performances finals mvps(not including players who played before that award because we all know Russell would have some).
nice post, thanx! yeah that's one problem with the awards or even some stats, things change and some stats that are kept now were not kept in the 60's so that's always a consideration
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:40 AM   #17
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

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Originally Posted by wally_world
-Consistency
-Leadership
-Ability to get teammates involved
-Winning
-Humbleness

Humbleness? Michael Jordan was sure as heck NOT humble.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

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Originally Posted by gts
nice post, thanx! yeah that's one problem with the awards or even some stats, things change and some stats that are kept now were not kept in the 60's so that's always a consideration

Yeah I realize that. I know you can't compare stats from 1962 to 2002 but you compare each stats against what was normal at the time. For example 15rpg now is like 25 in the early 60's. You also can't compare Hakeem as a shot blocker to Wilt because we don't know how many shots Wilt blocked.
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:02 AM   #19
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

The number one quality a player needs is character. Character allows them to overcome any obstacle put in the way of their road to success. A successful player does not have to be blessed with all of the physical gifts under the sun. They just need to know what they are good at, and how to exploit that aspect of themselves to their greatest advantage. That's why the greatest players in the NBA past and present are such a diverse bunch athletically, because those abilities are secondary to the thing that they all have in common, a great character and the will to win. What more do you want?
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:11 AM   #20
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

when you say "character" do you mean in a good way or just a strong willed character? because there are some really great players that were real pains
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:26 AM   #21
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

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Originally Posted by K.Koscik
Humbleness? Michael Jordan was sure as heck NOT humble.

Niether was Magic, Bird, Wilt, or Shaq
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:51 AM   #22
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

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Originally Posted by gts
when you say "character" do you mean in a good way or just a strong willed character? because there are some really great players that were real pains

In a good way. On the court. Letting their game speak for them. That kind of thing.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:06 AM   #23
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

you have to be better than larry bird to be top 10 all time
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:10 AM   #24
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

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Originally Posted by BULLS

Mikan is the most overrated center in league history. He dominated what could be argued as the weakest era in sports history. He is around top 95.

What more you can do than dominate the game like no one before or after you and win everything.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:01 AM   #25
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

BULLS has zero respect for players that started the NBA and contributed a lot to what we have now.

We all learn from people older than us. We always have someone we look up to. First you will want to be at par w. them. Then later, you want to be better than them.

He has no idea that those players played basketball because they love basketball. They are not payed that much during that time. They also learned the game pretty much on their own. Mikan dont have hakeem, Wilt, Kareem to look up to.

Following his logic, Jesus preached in a weak era. people then have no internet to do research.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:12 AM   #26
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

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Originally Posted by Shep
you have to be better than larry bird to be top 10 all time

I guess there are only 3-4 players who are top 10 then. Magic, Jordan and maybe Shaq and Kareem.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:55 AM   #27
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

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Originally Posted by VCMVP1551
I guess there are only 3-4 players who are top 10 then. Magic, Jordan and maybe Shaq and Kareem.
yeh, that makes sense. 3 players in a top 10. go get a ****in education
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:55 AM   #28
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

The era that a player played in is of huge significance in these rankings. I find it odd that more aren't stating this when listing their criteria.

If era weren't important--if all players were judged solely on how they performed within the context of their own era without comparison to other eras--then George Mikan would be a lock to be within the top 10 All-time. He'd likely be considered the GOAT. That very few people actually place Mikan within the top 10 demonstrates that comparing eras is of great significance in these rankings.

Nobody dominated their NBA era more than Mikan dominated his; he dominated more than Wilt dominated the 60s, more than Kareem dominated the 70s, more than Jordan dominated the 90s, etc.

No other single player has so shook the foundations of the game. The NCAA banned defensive goaltending because of him, and the NBA widened the paint because of him--and even tried 12-foot baskets in an official NBA game (where Mikan's Lakers played of course) to see if it would lessen his dominance.

In 1950, when Mikan was 25, he was declared the Greatest Player of the first half of the century by the Associated Press. He dominated college basketball. In the Pros, he won everywhere he went and was practically unanimously considered the best basketball player in the world nearly his entire career. He never lost a professional championship before his first retirement when he was at least semi-healthy, which includes joining the NBL near the end of its season for his rookie campaign.

That's 8 seasons of utter dominance. Jordan, who comes closest to winning and being unanimously considered the best player of his time for that long of a period, even had more stumbles than that.

So, if you don't rank Mikan at least near #1 all-time, the context of a player's era is of great prominance in your criteria.

Most would agree that eras like Mikan's are infeior in ways--"weak"--"less competitive." Depending a lot on one's age and knowledge of history, most previous eras become inferior and obscure, and thus players from those eras are penalized in such rankings.

Anyhow, era matters.
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:59 AM   #29
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

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Originally Posted by Shep
yeh, that makes sense. 3 players in a top 10. go get a ****in education

First of all the word is yeah not yeh second of all I was being sarcastic and mocking you because there have only been a few players better than Bird in NBA history.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:20 AM   #30
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Default Re: What's it take to be a top ten ALL time Player?

there aren't 10 players better than bird, shep. stop trolling even if your crusade to move duncan ahead of larry bears fruit, bird is still top 10.

i think the biggest factor in making the top 10 is having left an impression of dominance, of being the best over a period of time. it doesn't have to have been real dominance, just to seem that way to people at the time and leave the sense that they were unquestionably the greatest for a time. i honestly think that's why mj gets so much hype for the top spot. he was seen as being not just the best, but indisputably the best player in basketball in 6 or 7 different years. even when he didn't win the mvp, by the end of the finals all the talking heads were raving about him again.

kareem had an even longer run (which led to more mvps), but interest was light in the 70s, and he didn't do much of his winning until the 80s when the best player poll kind of swung between him, doc, and moses and then around 84 swung firmly to bird. then magic was seen as the best from about 87 or 88-90 with jordan and bird drawing some of his heat, but not enough to lower him.

in the middle of mj's run, he retired, and hakeem got the props for putting up great numbers, winning, and beating his best center competition head to head in the process. he's a marginal top 10 for a lot of people and i think that's for 2 reasons - 1st that he had a short run of dominance and 2nd that a lot of people want to count mj's absense against him, which i find stupid.

then you've got shaq who was very good from about 95-2005 but only really had people calling him an unstoppable machine for about 4 years from 2000-2004. nobody questions his place in the top ten though because he had no equals for at least three of those years. right now there is, i think, a sort of back and forth swing in perceptions over whether kobe's transcendant abilities or duncan's steady winning makes one or the other the top player of the last five years. duncan seems like a lock to stick in the top ten because when the post season ends he sticks in people's minds as the best so often, but kobe could climb up there with him before it's all said and done just based on spectacular performance.

going way back, people seem to sort of have a quad dominance perspective of the 60s / early 70s. wilt for his towering stats and larger than life game and russ for his desire and consistant winning. then on the perimeter west and oscar for their huge stats and just the level of separation they seemed to have from the other guards of the era. mikan's dominance i think is questioned because of segregation which was still a big part of the game during his playing days and because the game was in its nascent stages in general. right or wrong, just perception.

moving forward i think it's sort of a race between bron and kobe. will bron's game get better and kobe's drop off quickly enough for lebron to be seen as the solo best for a long, long time, or will kobe hold him off for a few years and extend his own chances of being remembered as the best player of 5 or so years? or will somebody else leapfrog both of them?

again, to me it's all about perception, dominance, and in some cases (i'm thinking mostly the older guys, mike, and duncan here, but it's really true of most of them) sustained excellence over a career.
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