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Old 09-11-2007, 09:59 PM   #106
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Default Re: If you want to discuss INTELLIGENTLY and THOUGHTFULLY Religion/Faith, Post Here

RBP with so you putting so much emphasis on interpretation and taking into account the fact that the time of when the gospel is written is so important in looking at its true meaning what is your opinion on the character of Jesus basically mirroring mithra and other such older god stories? At what point does one take that leap of faith and what is interpretation how do you yourself make the distinction.
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Old 09-11-2007, 11:39 PM   #107
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Default Re: If you want to discuss INTELLIGENTLY and THOUGHTFULLY Religion/Faith, Post Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by gb8
RBP with so you putting so much emphasis on interpretation and taking into account the fact that the time of when the gospel is written is so important in looking at its true meaning what is your opinion on the character of Jesus basically mirroring mithra and other such older god stories? At what point does one take that leap of faith and what is interpretation how do you yourself make the distinction.

the question isnt really about the "originality" of jesus, but the effect of the resurrection of jesus. it inspired those who followed him to die for him-- out of love.

and then more followers came, by the power of the Holy Spirit. and more. and it continued. and it has lasted the test of time.

where happened to the followers of mithra or other ancient near eastern gods? if they did survive, they had nowhere near the effect of lasting power of the jesus way/movement (christianity)

one of the principles that i believe in is: if something is true, it will pass the test of time.

one joke about catholicism is: that the church is the best proof for the Holy Spirit because there is no way it should have lasted over the centuries. there is truth to this joke...


as important as the intellectual aspect of our humanity is, i dont think that it is what makes us take a "leap of faith". i have never met anyone who has changed from a non-believer to become catholic. there is much more to us and God than just our minds

there are other factors that move us into relationship with God that are much more powerful than an intellectual assent.

at the heart of it is another mysterious thing: grace

there are all sorts of ways to describe grace but for our purposes, enough to say that it is like the water in a pool that enables us to float/swim to God. we cannot get anywhere in a pool without water.

grace surprises us in different ways--- and oftentimes hits us when we are not looking


i dont think we really choose God as much as become aware that God IS and we are in intimate relationship and in union with this God

it is best seen in the person of jesus (again the power of the incarnation). one scripture says jesus is the image of the invisible God...

faith is our response to this love/grace of God which brings us closer to God. faith allows us to be in some sort of relationship with this Mystery.

relationship with God is more a heart thing and soul thing more than a mind thing although all of these work hand in hand

theology can be described as faith seeking understanding. these discussions of the concepts/dogmas presume faith, not primarily to engender faith


just some scattered thoughts...
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Old 09-11-2007, 11:51 PM   #108
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Default Re: a course on the book of revelation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomsday Dallas
I saw one video on youtube that convinced me that the Vatican
is the big player in Revelations... I can't find it now,
but I'm pretty sure that Revelations makes reference to it.

There are so many interpretations as to what all of it means,...
But I'm pretty sure we can all interpret the Mark as
a chip imbedded in the body....

Note that the King James version says they will recieve a mark IN
thier Left hand... Not ON

please use the following when posting these kind of jokes:
:):):)


otherwise, those who are still learning will take your writing seriously
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Old 09-11-2007, 11:54 PM   #109
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Default Re: If you want to discuss INTELLIGENTLY and THOUGHTFULLY Religion/Faith, Post Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainierBeachPoet
t
one of the principles that i believe in is: if something is true, it will pass the test of time.


i dont think we really choose God as much as become aware that God IS and we are in intimate relationship and in union with this God

I like that...

You have your eyes, mind, and heart open to the Scripture...

I want to tell you something that made me stop witnessing to people...
I have an image of the cross in my ofice, and my boss came to me
(knowing the evil sinner that I tend to be).... and he said

"Did you Find God?"

I, ofcourse said "yes" without much thoght...

His reply: ..... "I didn't know that God was lost?"



Then it dawned on me... God was the entity that came into my life....
and ever since the day that he did so... My battle has been with myself..
the battle has been with my own flesh, mind, and will.

I realized that I never found God... God awakened me....




And when God awakens you... It's not fun, it's not pleasure...

It's Humbling












Everyone where I live has made there mind up... Will God change it?
Will I?... I will never preach the gospel again... instead, I must try to live it.

Last edited by Doomsday Dallas : 09-11-2007 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 09-12-2007, 12:43 AM   #110
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Default Re: If you want to discuss INTELLIGENTLY and THOUGHTFULLY Religion/Faith, Post Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomsday Dallas
I like that...

You have your eyes, mind, and heart open to the Scripture...

I want to tell you something that made me stop witnessing to people...
I have an image of the cross in my ofice, and my boss came to me
(knowing the evil sinner that I tend to be).... and he said

"Did you Find God?"

I, ofcourse said "yes" without much thoght...

His reply: ..... "I didn't know that God was lost?"



Then it dawned on me... God was the entity that came into my life....
and ever since the day that he did so... My battle has been with myself..
the battle has been with my own flesh, mind, and will.

I realized that I never found God... God awakened me....




And when God awakens you... It's not fun, it's not pleasure...

It's Humbling












Everyone where I live has made there mind up... Will God change it?
Will I?... I will never preach the gospel again... instead, I must try to live it.


a great example of the surprise of grace


you reminded of a quote from st. francis of assisi:

"preach the Gospel at all times; when necessary, use words"
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Old 09-12-2007, 08:01 AM   #111
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Default Re: If you want to discuss INTELLIGENTLY and THOUGHTFULLY Religion/Faith, Post Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainierBeachPoet
the question isnt really about the "originality" of jesus, but the effect of the resurrection of jesus. it inspired those who followed him to die for him-- out of love.

and then more followers came, by the power of the Holy Spirit. and more. and it continued. and it has lasted the test of time.

where happened to the followers of mithra or other ancient near eastern gods? if they did survive, they had nowhere near the effect of lasting power of the jesus way/movement (christianity)

one of the principles that i believe in is: if something is true, it will pass the test of time.

one joke about catholicism is: that the church is the best proof for the Holy Spirit because there is no way it should have lasted over the centuries. there is truth to this joke...


as important as the intellectual aspect of our humanity is, i dont think that it is what makes us take a "leap of faith". i have never met anyone who has changed from a non-believer to become catholic. there is much more to us and God than just our minds

there are other factors that move us into relationship with God that are much more powerful than an intellectual assent.

at the heart of it is another mysterious thing: grace

there are all sorts of ways to describe grace but for our purposes, enough to say that it is like the water in a pool that enables us to float/swim to God. we cannot get anywhere in a pool without water.

grace surprises us in different ways--- and oftentimes hits us when we are not looking


i dont think we really choose God as much as become aware that God IS and we are in intimate relationship and in union with this God

it is best seen in the person of jesus (again the power of the incarnation). one scripture says jesus is the image of the invisible God...

faith is our response to this love/grace of God which brings us closer to God. faith allows us to be in some sort of relationship with this Mystery.

relationship with God is more a heart thing and soul thing more than a mind thing although all of these work hand in hand

theology can be described as faith seeking understanding. these discussions of the concepts/dogmas presume faith, not primarily to engender faith


just some scattered thoughts...

Maybe the reason it has survived is because an entire empire was forced into conversion and unspeakable evils have been committed in its name to preseve it? Thanks for the discussion RBP.Good luck to you I enjoy your positivity.
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Old 09-12-2007, 10:20 AM   #112
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Default Re: If you want to discuss INTELLIGENTLY and THOUGHTFULLY Religion/Faith, Post Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by gb8
Maybe the reason it has survived is because an entire empire was forced into conversion and unspeakable evils have been committed in its name to preseve it? Thanks for the discussion RBP.Good luck to you I enjoy your positivity.

the entire empire was actually persecuting the jesus "way" in the early church. not until the fourth cent. was it embraced as the religion of the empire

there is some truth to what you say in that it was easier to survive the years where the church had the protection of the sword... but then again there were the dark ages after the empire had declined.

not many things survived the dark ages. and if it did, it was people of faith (monks) who were key for their survival


i am generally optimistic, but not a blind optimism...
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Old 09-12-2007, 12:23 PM   #113
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Default Re: If you want to discuss INTELLIGENTLY and THOUGHTFULLY Religion/Faith, Post Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainierBeachPoet
the entire empire was actually persecuting the jesus "way" in the early church. not until the fourth cent. was it embraced as the religion of the empire

there is some truth to what you say in that it was easier to survive the years where the church had the protection of the sword... but then again there were the dark ages after the empire had declined.

not many things survived the dark ages. and if it did, it was people of faith (monks) who were key for their survival


i am generally optimistic, but not a blind optimism...

The Dark ages can be seen to be caused if not in the overall but definitely a contributed to by christianity. Also in the time of the dark ages in keeping witha world view the Muslim Empire was thriving and advancing science, mathematics and art greatly.
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Old 09-12-2007, 05:21 PM   #114
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Default Re: If you want to discuss INTELLIGENTLY and THOUGHTFULLY Religion/Faith, Post Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by gb8
The Dark ages can be seen to be caused if not in the overall but definitely a contributed to by christianity. Also in the time of the dark ages in keeping witha world view the Muslim Empire was thriving and advancing science, mathematics and art greatly.

history isnt my strongest area perhaps a more knowledgeable person who has studied history can correct me

but i can say this with some conviction:

the time where the church was coopted was in its wedding with the imperial powers of spain and portugal. in many ways it was a natural progression of the church being aligned with the state-- beginning with rome in the 4th cent.

many of the wrongs were done by the church in conjuunction with the state for state purposes not church/faith purposes

probably many wrongs were purely done by the state and the church gets implicated by association

hindsight is 20-20. i believe that the catholic church has moved beyond "christendom" and its implications.

those lesson were learned by us; although certain christians and certainly many muslims believe that the church-state relationship is necessary or needed

as i mentioned in an earlier post: i do not expect the church to be perfect-- it is both holy and sinful at the same time...

but one cannot dismiss the good things that have come from the church too

art and music

certainly, the great european universities began because of the church
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:45 PM   #115
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Default Re: If you want to discuss INTELLIGENTLY and THOUGHTFULLY Religion/Faith, Post Here

bump...keep it up guys this makes for great reading
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:59 PM   #116
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Default Re: If you want to discuss INTELLIGENTLY and THOUGHTFULLY Religion/Faith, Post Here

i was hoping this wasnt going to be only a catholic/chrisitian discussion.

any muslims, buddhists, jews, hindus out there?
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Old 09-14-2007, 12:54 AM   #117
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Default Re: If you want to discuss INTELLIGENTLY and THOUGHTFULLY Religion/Faith, Post Here

oh that we christians would really take seriously the commandment:

love God with all your heart, mind and soul and

love your neighbor as yourself
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