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Old 09-07-2007, 06:07 PM   #16
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
If going by athletic peak....

KG was no more athletic than Kemp or Larry Nance. VC was a better dunker than Jordan but I wouldnt say more athletic than Jordan in about...87. Young Shaq was not more athletic than Hakeem or Drob. Stronger but slower and less nimble. And Baron Davis was not really more athletic than Kevin Johnson. Baron may have jumped higher...but I dont think he was faster. In fact if all you care about is raw athletic ability...Nate robinson is probably the only guard more athletic than Muggsy or Spud Webb.

I just used 89 and this year so nobody had the edge as far as comparing prime to someone old. I included Bird, Magic, and Isiah who were all past their athletic peaks in 89.


You didn't have Kemp listed, I'm guessing because he was only a rook in 89. I would have to say that Kemp was more athletic than KG though. Nance was also more athletic than KG but KG is so versatile at so many things, that I guess I gave him this one.


KJ was very athletic and maybe a slight step quicker than Baron, but I have heard that Baron was doing 48"-50" verts right out of college. VC could not only jump higher than Jordan, the way he contorted his body on the way to the rim was absolutely freakish. I also don't see how a young Hakeem or Drob were faster than a young Shaq, The man could run the floor like a gazelle his first few years in the league, his movements were much more fluid than Hakeems and Drobs, and his footspeed was every bit as fast, if not faster.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:09 PM   #17
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

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Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
For every Sasha there is a Brad Sellers, Blue Edwards, Kenny Battle, Billy Thompson, Tim Perry, Harold Minor, Rex Chapman, Kendall Gill, Chris Morris, or Shelton Jones who nobody today gives a damn about. Roleplayers(for most of their careers) that were sick athletes.

.

Firstly, Shelton Jones played exactly one season of nba basketball so I must ask how on earth you remebered him? ...hmm now I got it!! Everyone you listed are dunk contest participants!!!!

But that wasn't my point, here are a couple of random decent athletes that your list brought to my mind:

Terry Teagle
Stacey Augmon
Reggie Williams
Gerald Wilkins
Doug West
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Gotta compare D-Rob and KG. Both around 7 feet and athletic/nimble. No WAY is VC more athletic than Jordan. His coordination/speed aren't near the same level. He's just got a super long wingspan which make his dunks look better than what they are.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

I think there are more athletic swingmen than there used to be as well. I think coming up in the 70s and 80s Lebron and Mcgrady might have been made into combo forwards like Larry Nance. 6'8''and 6'9'' super athletes look to be more Jordan like these days. Basically everyone from 6'3'' to 6'9'' with any form of handle at all seems to think they are or should be a swingman. I think its made the number of guys who become swingmen higher.

But still...yes id say the 2/3 types are deeper these days far as athletic ability. Not better at the top but deeper. Some other positions go other ways.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

All this talk about athletic ability, some more then others....and how that appears to be such an impact on the basketball skills. It's not a video game. Lebron doesn't regularly dunk from the FT line in games or pick up him man full court staying with him every step...in fact he rarely does. Lebron is who he is because he's got great basketball ability. His hops and speed just help. If he was a notch below on the athletic skills side, he'd still be a dominate player, maybe moreso because he would play smarter.

Talk about a guy who is a great athlete today automatically averaging 15 points in the 50's/60's.....aside from that being nothing but opinion with no way of proving it....since when does athletic ability translate into points per game? There are tons of great athletes who suck...and if you suck today, you'll suck in any era. That is what is the problem with so many fans these days...only look at the hops/speed. There is so much more to the game. If a guy who is a bottom 5 athlete today could for some random reason get 15 pts per in the 60's, then that would mean the player with high basketball ball IQ and fundamental skills today would also be a solid player in the 50's60s? Brian Scalabranie for 1962 MVP? Give me a break. Basketball is a game that entails a number of factors and skill sets. That is why it's so good. You don't have to be a spectacular athlete to be a great player. Some guys would love to have a team full of Harold Minors, Isiah Riders and Travis Outlaw's...thinking because they are such great athletes would do well...but wait, it would actually suck ass.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

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Originally Posted by disco
Firstly, Shelton Jones played exactly one season of nba basketball so I must ask how on earth you remebered him? ...hmm now I got it!! Everyone you listed are dunk contest participants!!!!

But that wasn't my point, here are a couple of random decent athletes that your list brought to my mind:

Terry Teagle
Stacey Augmon
Reggie Williams
Gerald Wilkins
Doug West

kblaze, do you admit you checked the names from dunk contest participant lists? I read your post and thought there is something that these guys have in common and then realised what it was.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:16 PM   #22
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

I think you have to count the Jordan effect. Dude alone was the idol of millions of kids that probably is the main reason there are so many athletic swings out there.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:17 PM   #23
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by disco
Firstly, Shelton Jones played exactly one season of nba basketball so I must ask how on earth you remebered him? ...hmm now I got it!! Everyone you listed are dunk contest participants!!!!

But that wasn't my point, here are a couple of random decent athletes that your list brought to my mind:

Terry Teagle
Stacey Augmon
Reggie Williams
Gerald Wilkins
Doug West

I was nearly sure someone would say that(dunk contest thing). Just an easy way to come up with them. And I dont think Blue was in a contest. May have been but im not sure. And Perry came to me because I saw a lot of him when making a Kevin Johnson video recently. Also because Shaq said Tim was one of the 3 guys to dunk on him. I know Sellers wasnt in a contest. brad sellers was always an underrated atlete to me. fast and with great hops for a bigman. I only hear him mentioned these days when people talk about how bad jordans supporting casts were.


Quote:
KJ was very athletic and maybe a slight step quicker than Baron, but I have heard that Baron was doing 48"-50" verts right out of college. VC could not only jump higher than Jordan, the way he contorted his body on the way to the rim was absolutely freakish. I also don't see how a young Hakeem or Drob were faster than a young Shaq, The man could run the floor like a gazelle his first few years in the league, his movements were much more fluid than Hakeems and Drobs, and his footspeed was every bit as fast, if not fast

No question Baron could jump. But his athletic peak seemed to be in college. He never did that insane **** i nthe NBA. VC was fluid in the air...but I dont think he was as fast as Jordan. And really...if there was a hops difference it was like 41 to 43 or so.

And young Shaq was fast...but I dont bet on him beating Drob down the court. And he sure as hell has never been more fluid than Hakeem. And footwork? Not even going int othat on....
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:21 PM   #24
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Quote:
kblaze, do you admit you checked the names from dunk contest participant lists? I read your post and thought there is something that these guys have in common and then realised what it was.

What is there to admit? I checked on one of the old contests to see where Kenny Smith finished(I was thinking he was second one year but wasnt sure). There are exactly two players I wouldnt have listed either way. Guys like Kendall Gill come to me from years ofseeing those old Jam basketball cards with dunk stats on the back. Blue edwards I mention often. I see him all the time onold NBA action episodes making videos.


And speaking of obscure dunk contest people....


What is chris Anderson up to? I know he was banned from the league but wasnt it only for a year or two? Cant he come back now?

Last edited by Kblaze8855 : 09-07-2007 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:24 PM   #25
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
I was nearly sure someone would say that(dunk contest thing). Just an easy way to come up with them. And I dont think Blue was in a contest. May have been but im not sure. And Perry came to me because I saw a lot of him when making a Kevin Johnson video recently. Also because Shaq said Tim was one of the 3 guys to dunk on him. I know Sellers wasnt in a contest. brad sellers was always an underrated atlete to me. fast and with great hops for a bigman. I only hear him mentioned these days when people talk about how bad jordans supporting casts were.




No question Baron could jump. But his athletic peak seemed to be in college. He never did that insane **** i nthe NBA. VC was fluid in the air...but I dont think he was as fast as Jordan. And really...if there was a hops difference it was like 41 to 43 or so.

And young Shaq was fast...but I dont bet on him beating Drob down the court. And he sure as hell has never been more fluid than Hakeem. And footwork? Not even going int othat on....

Edwards was in the contest. Sellers was the only one from your list who didn't participate in 89 or 90 contest.

How else you would have brought up Billy Thompson and Shelton Jones? Jones played about half a season in NBA and Thompson definitely isn't one to remember either.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:26 PM   #26
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
What is there to admit? I checked on one of the old contests to see where Kenny Smith finished(I was thinking he was second one year but wasnt sure). There are exactly two players I wouldnt have listed either way. Guys like Kendall Gill come to me from years ofseeing those old Jam basketball cards with dunk stats on the back. Blue edwards I mention often. I see him all the time onold NBA action episodes making videos.


And speaking of obscure dunk contest people....


What is chris Anderson up to? I know he was banned from the league but wasnt it only for a year or two? Cant he come back now?

Nothing to "admit". I just thought first that you were thinking of who used to look athletic on the floor (from your mails I'm 100% sure you've watched lots of basketball in early 1990s). I just thought it was funny that all the examples were from 89 or 90 dunk contest.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:31 PM   #27
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

I actually remember Billy but doubt id have mentioned him without seeing his name. As I said there were 2 guys id not have otherwise listed. Maybe you didnt notice but the whole point was to mention guys from back then nobody really think about these days to point out how its easier to remember current athletc role players than guys from 20 years ago.

And Chris Morris...I watched an NBA action episode recently where he was the young player being profiled on the Nets. Those old NBA actions are mostly where the 10 or 11 90s videos ive made come from.


edit

Yes 89-90 sounds about right. Those were Kenny Smiths best years. I didnt want to say he was second in the dunk contest without being sure. He was second to Nique in 1990.

Id like to find more of him as a King. I started a Kenny Smith video once but it was only like 2 minutes long so I didnt bother finishing.

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Old 09-07-2007, 06:40 PM   #28
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Should throw Ewing in there. Dude was a NASTY athlete in his prime.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:41 PM   #29
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

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And footwork? Not even going int othat on....

I didn't say footwork, I said footspeed. Instead of nice look fundamental looking fakie/shakie, followed by a layup or or baby hook. Shaq used his fantastic footspeed to get into position so as to allow a powerful finish which made you forget anything of the finesse preceding it.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:42 PM   #30
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Case in point gettyimages.com # 1393332
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